Shimitsu's page

Interesting. I wonder if THIS poster also plays in your region.

Yes, actually, I think they were the Cleric in the group. All the players were kind of flummoxed as to the unilateral nature of the decision, they were very uncompromising. I had the core book there on the table and asked both the VL running us and the other guy he called over to read it and explain to me how "ON or before" doesn't mean ON or before.

The Starfinder explanation is clearer, but I expect neither of them will reconsider when I take the book there tomorrow, which is why I was hoping for, say, some absolute officialdom answer.

I'm in Austin, at Dragon's Lair. They have about 6 tables any given monday or thursday.

EDIT: Oh, I get you. As in, they're probably support Captains, rather than full fledged ones. Sorry, my misunderstand.

Sure, and as you said, I made the argument that it's pretty clear it says ON my next turn or BEFORE it (Thus allowing for attacks of opportunity, etc.), they said I was wrong and that it meant the opposite, that it meant I had to use is on my turn or before my next (Which is exactly backwards).

So, the Venture Captain called the other Venture Captain over and they ruled that they were correct. They also said a lot of the combat rules were that way (Where they were useless without feats), I asked for another exampled, and they didn't have one, they just ruled that I was wrong on the matter.

So, this last Monday I was in Public play and had a small argument with two of the venture captains (The first, who got the second to confirm the position). I am playing a Rogue and used "Feint" the combat maneuver.

To be clear, I have no feats that enhance Feint whatsoever. What was argued to me is that Feint, as a combat maneuver, is entirely and completely useless without having said feats. The understanding presented to me by the Venture Captains was that you had to use the attack on the same round as you Feint (Which isn't possible with Feint being a Standard Action) and since you can't Feint and Attack, that Feinting is totally useless without at least the feat Improved Feint.

My intention was to Feint, and then use my first attack on my next turn to exploit the Feint, as the text in the book stated "On or before your next turn". I was told by both venture captains that what the text really meant was that you had to use it on your turn or before your next turn... which is exactly backwards how it reads in both the Pathfinder core book as well as the Starfinder book (which described it in clearer fashion to mean exactly what I had expected it to mean, that I could exploit the feint sometime between when I performed it and my next turn)

If someone official could chime in and clarify, specifically for the PATHFINDER application of Feint, as I expect pointing out the Starfinder wording will not be good enough for the Venture Captains I had this interaction with, I would greatly appreciate it.

Many Thanks