Stygian Slayer

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If you don't need it to be quasi lycanthropic, then I would focus on mutagenic powers -- sort of like an alchemist. This about a portfolio of bioorganic and life shaping abilities. Think about powers drawn from the Shifter and Alchemist classes. The idea is that the moon of Tenebrian embodies the life giving powers of the Blue Age, just as the Red Sun of Athas is a life stealing, dessicating force of the Age of the Sorcerer Kings.


look up pakubrazi and the thrax for ideas


I will on Monday


Tenro wrote:

do we have an updated link to the new dusk kobold stats?

i'll do it on Monday. I have to cut and paste stuff from several different sources.


Tenro wrote:
are [Gift] and [Knack] feats limited only to those 4 slots or are we able to take them with our other feat slots too? because we get 1 per 4 levels but their prerequisites are divisible by 3 (6th, 9th, 112th, 15th, etc)

other feat slots


Tenro wrote:
also we have 5 traits. are we subject to the normal limit of no more than 1 per category?

yes


Do we have stats for the shadow assassins yet?


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If it helps to think about ideas, and trying to give some info without giving away too much of the plot, the first few scenarios are going to involve some snooping around Eridug, a visit to a site in the wilderness between the kyton city of Leviathan and Eridug, and a visit to the ruins of Assybassiya on the Temple Isle of the Oracle Archipelago in the midst of the Porphyric Sea, as well as an excursion to Tyr on Athas.


The main city is enormous -- Tyr in the Tablelands has around 500,000 inhabitants, and that's just because the Green Age city of Tyre, which was inhabited in part by kobolds (a forgotten age of the city's history in the present day), was decimated (as in literally 1 out of 10 killed), during the invasion, and grew back to have of it's original size over a millennia. The lower quadrant of the city is basically uninhabited.

Eridug, by contrast, is fully inhabited and has between 1-3 million inhabitants depending on how you count the outlying areas in the valley that surrounds it.

Several miles at least in any direction. Think on the scale of Shanghai, Mexico City, Tokyo, Mumbai, or Bangkok.

I would say at least half the scenarios will end up taking place in the city. I have a few ideas for outside excursions -- but I've already described why that is highly dangerous.


I'm inclined to think we should cap it at 16 or people or going to potentially have wildly varying HD. Does anyone have a strong reason not to do it that way?


Is that the site for maps? I don't use that. I got a free account and played around with it for a little but couldn't get it to everything I wanted.

Honestly this thread isn't getting enough interest to run this. I have another thread going in the same world if you'd like to check that out.


That would be a character that basically looks like a weird kobold, so that would be a different case.


Yes


I also just noted you mentioned vampire here. There are no vampires on this setting. I posted links about athasian undead here and in the discussion thread.


The threads must not be familiar with the lore. Read the link I gave above. The equivalent of a vampire is a tliz.

I'm okay with inventing another kind of free willed undead but it needs to be distinctive like the other Athasuanian ones. I'm going to veto anything that's just a renamed vampire. There needs to be more to it.


You could be some kind of undead possessed by a friend from the elemental chaos but there still aren't any vampires, so you'd have to reimagine that somehow


http://www.mojobob.com/roleplay/monstrousmanual/u/undeatha.html read that


There are several types of free willed undead that approximate some of the vanilla types like lich and vampire. What are you looking at for this information?


Monkeygod wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:


That doesn't really work because it requires the petitioner model for the fate of souls which doesn't exist in this cosmology. Instead you go to the grey and then dissipate.

That's a bummer. Do outsiders thus generally not really exist? My Umbral Kobold was going to have the Half-Shadow demon template, and I'm considering the Moroi to have some sort of fiendish race/template.

Would these mechanics thus not be available?

There is an elemental plane, an astral plane, the Black, the grey. There are dozens or even hundred of elemental planes. There is an elemental chaos vortex in the elemental planes with tanari and other demons in it. I cited the 4th edition as the basis for this.

The Great Wheel or golarion equivalent doesn't exist. We can refluff stuff if you want certain mechanics.

The moroi still can't be a vampire cross breed because there are no vampires. The Athasian equivalent is a tliz. There is a 3e conversion I linked in the recruitment page. Shadow demon could just be shadow creatures that live in the Black.

I'm thinking of refluffing some demons and daemons and yuggoloths as a race of soul stealers called Reapers that live in then Gray. They're not going to be created out of dead souls though.

The background to the horseman you linked gives it a mortal life. That doesn't work in this. Cosmology. When you die there's no chance to become exalted like that. You appear on some islands in the Gray and then wander until you dissipate.


Monkeygod wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Daemons, what used to be Yugoloths, the Neutral Evil outsiders.

There is an elemental chaos with tanari/demons in the middle of the elemental planes, and some devils wandering around the Gray. I'm getting both those ideas from the 4th edition version of Dark Sun. If yuggoloths exist they'd have to be reflected somehwat as their niche doesn't really exist in this cosmology. Maybe they could have some role in the Gray as that's pretty similar to the grey waste of gehenna. I'd want to use different names/titles for the rulers. They'd be closer to 2e yuggoloths than pathfinder daemons.

That won't work with what I had wanted to do, as I was thinking my Magus/Warpriest would be a high ranking agent of Szuriel, the Horseman of War

Which is fine, it's not an important part of the concept, and can easily be disregarded.

Here's the info on the Four Horsemen btw.

That doesn't really work because it requires the petitioner model for the fate of souls which doesn't exist in this cosmology. Instead you go to the grey and then dissipate.


Monkeygod wrote:
Daemons, what used to be Yugoloths, the Neutral Evil outsiders.

There is an elemental chaos with tanari/demons in the middle of the elemental planes, and some devils wandering around the Gray. I'm getting both those ideas from the 4th edition version of Dark Sun. If yuggoloths exist they'd have to be reflected somehwat as their niche doesn't really exist in this cosmology. Maybe they could have some role in the Gray as that's pretty similar to the grey waste of gehenna. I'd want to use different names/titles for the rulers. They'd be closer to 2e yuggoloths than pathfinder daemons.


Tenro wrote:
like a blink dog, but those "in the know" would know more. also if i dont end up taking anything that foils detection he would probably detect as such. government types are probably aware of what happened (even if the cultists that did it are not aware that the government is aware)

I have to think about it. This is kind of an edge case. The main issue is I want an umbral kobold party. If I let you sort of have an exception, that makes it more difficult to tell everyone else they need to make two characters. Despite my pitch to make this a one race campaign everyone immediately asked to play something else, so I feel I need to push pretty hard to keep everyone with my original idea. That's not negotiable. The story is about this city and its native people. I don't want to run this if everyone won't be happy playing kobold characters. We can make up subraces for different concepts, but I'm not changing the basic pitch and story arc.


Monkeygod wrote:
Seb, do the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse have any role in this setting?

Those are the masters of the demons in pathfinder right?


There's also going to be a difference between umbral shadow kobolds who are the majority and pitch black night kobolds who will be more numerous than the albinos but still only like 5 to 10 percent of the population.


Oh and a very small number of albinos


Tyren Lourofesh wrote:

So, been punting around two alternate ideas.

A hobgoblin oracle who has been passed down the sacred task of maintaining 'divine' ancient technology. It would be a starship that's still..."functional", in that it's still capable of moving and the internals are intact enough that it's space-worthy.

In reality, however, the starship is only made of space-age materials on the exterior, which is religiously maintained to exacting standards. The internals are 80% replaced with various forms of stone-shaped and fabricated Magimorphic stones as the structure and spirit-possessed components for complex machinery.
While the design for the ship largely remains the same, and many of its' basic functions have been retained, there's no actual technology at play anymore.
Turbines move, but they move via spirits. Shadowstuff is recombined into alchemist fire, which is moved by the turbines to generate thrust.
Data storage is no longer in the form of electronics, but is instead Photosensitive stone in constant contact with Intelligent Swords, which in and of themselves have their memories constantly recorded into memory crystals.
Life support is handled by more shadowstuff, now recombined into partially-real plantlife, capable of producing very-real oxygen, albeit with significantly less efficiency.

Basically just constant thought exercises like that, with my spell selection decided entirely by 'yeah, but what function does this serve for maintaining their temple?'

And then my other was a Vampire master of the blade, who has perfected it to such a degree that he is capable of cutting through time and space.
He was going to have levels in cool classes like Warpmaster and Time Thief and basically just be Go-Fast Guy, with abilities that scale off of how Fast he Goes.

If you go this direction I have in mind to create a hobgoblin city located in the same area as eldaaritch on athas.


Also we can make several varieties of the ningishzidda to fit different character types. On top of adding all the shadow racial traits and the alternative traits I listed to turn them into a rp22 race, I was imagining a couple of subraces. One group would have wings. Another would be large muscled warriors that are 2-3 times taller than their fellows. Another would be half-shadows. Another would be some kind of were creature that can assume a large reptilian form.


Can someone do another round up of the current build rules for me and I'll edit the campaign info page?


Tenro wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

So what does the character look like then?


The moon mages of Eridug are known as the usakar (Ur Sin is one of the names given to the moon itself). The small coterie is descended from a group of curious scientists that built an observatory to study and channel the orb's light. They quickly uncovered its marvelous effects and began to experiment with utilizing its powers. The moon has different phases that last millennia. The usakar have discovered from investigating records in ancient ruins that the last active phase of the moon saw it descend low into the orbit of the planet and destroyed a vast city known as Assabasyia. The present day usakar are still centered on the observatory make regular pilgrimages to the ruins of Assabasyia and communicate with the moon cultists that inhabit the ruins of the city of the ancient Temple Isle.

The ruins of Assabasyia are located on the Oracle Isle in the midst of the Porphyric Sea, in the same location as Ur Draxa on Athas.


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I changed my mind about the immortals template. You can have hero deity


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Tenro wrote:
so for a dusk kobold moon mage of the blue moon, what would his position in society be?

The primary mages of the ningishzidda are the various echelons of the shadow spires. These shadow mages include the class of celestial navigators known as the monitors who directed the immense pyramidal sky ships in which the mobiles emigrated from the green age metropolis of tyre to the Black following Sachas invasion.

Other kinds of mages who are not initiates of the shadow spires will be smaller sodalities with a less direct relationship to the government. Those who began to draw power from the Blue Moon known as Ur Sin are among these compacts.


Alias ad Tempus wrote:
Another question: Leadership? If we are playing politics and intrigue, it could play an interesting part...?

What about it?


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Tenro wrote:

how about this? the last column after the ". . ." would be the number of full HD with all attendant abilities that the PC/NPC could pull from their third progression (instead of templates) or from HOPF Prestigious/Gestalt feats. anything higher than that number would provide class abilities (special column only).

2 2 1 1 . . . +1
4 4 2 2 . . . +1
6 6 3 3 . . . +2
8 8 4 4 . . . +2
10 10 5 5 . . +3
12 12 6 6 . . +3
14 14 7 7 . . +4
16 16 8 8 . . +4
18 18 9 9 . . +5
20 20 10 10 . +5

this progresses evenly.

this does not provide capstones to PCs of level 16.

this evenly divides by 10 for the tiers the GM wants.

with this, the max HD/BAB/Base CL any one PC would have would be 23 (18+5) and a King or Queen would be capped at 25 (20+5) and then if things progress further than that you can easily extrapolate the pattern.

if you wanted to juice up the power, and make level ups more significant, you could use this progression instead:

2 2 1 1 . . . +1
4 4 2 2 . . . +2
6 6 3 3 . . . +3
8 8 4 4 . . . +4
10 10 5 5 . . +5
12 12 6 6 . . +6
14 14 7 7 . . +7
16 16 8 8 . . +8
18 18 9 9 . . +9
20 20 10 10 . +10

this would have the PC's starting cap at 27 HD and the King/Queen starting cap at 30.

This is exactly what I wanted to see. Let's do the second of those


But it does make a difference for planning npcs with class levels. I'd need to have consistent rules about how their additional bin of templates and prcs would stack. I'm inclined to veto any additional stipulations on stacking unless it can be fit into a consistent system like I've outlined. I don't want to be guessing at numbers and stacking for npcs. I want consistent rules for all these tiers so I don't have to guestimate stuff.


Monkeygod wrote:

Right now, we are 16/16/10/10, but we have 16 free levels that can be used for a PrC/base class(that isn't one of our gestalt classes) and/or templates.

We have a few options how to decide how this all works:

1) The PrC/base class only adds their class features(the special section. Ie, sneak attack, bloodlines, bonus feats, rage, etc) and do not improve HD, BAB, Saves, etc.

Assuming we go this route, I'm unsure we'll be able to face the foes you wanna throw at us.

2) The PrC/base class adds everything from their levels, however we stop gaining level based benefits at 16(more feats, ability score increases, potential for more HOPF, etc).

With this option, we should be able to fight those monsters.

3) The PrC/Base class adds *everything*, including level based benefits, but stops at 20. We still gain an extra 6 levels worth of BAB, saves, skills, etc.

This is the option I feel most comfortable as able to handle your threats.

Between the extra feats, the few more levels of boosts from ABP and Christmas Chop, and possibly four more HOPFs, I think we should be fine.

None of these options interfere with the NPC leaders still being 20/20/10/10. We end up being 16/16/8/8 + 'something', but we don't gain the capstone of our classes and we aren't gestalt with those bonus levels.

Also, there's nothing stopping you from giving the NPC leaders the +16(or more) free levels, making them that much more powerful than us.

You're still not quite understanding my issue. I want all npcs and pcs to divide into consistent tiers. These stipulations about what stacks have to be divisible into 10 evenly progressing tiers. My issue is not that something more powerful exists but that these are ad hoc qualifications for the 16/16//8/8 tier. I want you to expand your rules to apply to an extra bin of prc and templates that progresses 2 6 8 9 10 12 14 16 18 20 alongside the 2/2//1/1 to 20/20//10/10 tiers

0


Monkeygod wrote:
Monkeygod wrote:
Sebecloki wrote:
Are we sure with the limitation on stacking that will be sufficient to fight the monsters I posted? They're going to come with other powerful minions and such too.

This was my main reason for suggesting the 10 levels from the bonus 16 stack with our gestalt in terms of BAB, saves, HP, etc.

However, then I got to thinking, 'how would that affect our level based benefits?' which is why I suggested we could be virtual level 20 with the first four bonus levels granting their full benefits, even 4 more HOPF.

As these levels can't be in our gestalt classes, we won't be getting capstones, the king & queen(along with the other leaders) will still have an 'advantage' over us.

That said, if we stop level based benefits at 16, and apply the 10 levels normally otherwise, I think we might be alright.

Seb, thought on these suggestions??

I'm not sure yet. One huge reservation I have is how this maps on to the tiers I defined above. There should be 10 tiers of npcs starting at 2/2//1/1 and stopping at 20/20//10/10. There could be a parallel progression of template and prc levels that would be 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14 etc. Your additional rules wouldn't map onto that easily. I'd want to see how they interact with what I outlined beginning with 2/2//1/1 and going up to 20/20//10/10.


Hayato Ken wrote:

Well if the monsters are that strong, why don't we just take level 19 or 20?

Also there is Hof weapon finesse...

Because I have a specific mechanical ecosystem in mind that i detailed above


Monkeygod wrote:
Seb, are you okay with using the downtime rules? If so, there's a PrC I might consider taking that interacts with them.

That's fine


Are we sure with the limitation on stacking that will be sufficient to fight the monsters I posted? They're going to come with other powerful minions and such too.


It's between Kalak's death and the Dragon's -- so Borys is still alive, but Kalak is not. Tektuktitlay is still alive.


Blink dogs are interested in the zodiac and stuff, so that association would make some kind of sense. You'd have to make up a story as part of your background of how you came under the tutelage of a priestly trading client in Draj.


You need some kind of good story to explain how that came about, but besides that its fine.

The massive bluish moon is going to have the opposite effects of the crimson sun. Instead of drying everything out and burning it, it's going to have weird mutagenic and vivifying properties.


Terrors of the Deadlands

Sorry, miss-remembered the name, here's a link.


Monkeygod wrote:

The best way to handle those traits is for them to cost the same as the traits they're replacing.

Venom would be 7, and Slink would be 2.

Shadowblooded is trickier, because it replaces a weakness only. Which is actually incorrect, as they should get light blindness, not sensitivity.

The caster level increase effects both darkness and shadow spells, which is a pretty solid range. I would peg that aspect at 3 RP.

However, the negative aspects of Shadowblooded is actually much worse than light blindness. I say this is a -3 RP. Which would mean the whole thing is 0 RP.

I'm not sure that makes sense though, so I'm going to ask in the PFSRD group for advise.

For the moroi, it would be good if we could find a way to boost them that didn't involve just giving traits from a racial character class, as that then messes up the ability of other individuals to take levels of that class.

Fluff wise, all I could figure out was that they're supposed to be like dhampir. Is that correct? So, the Athasian equivalent of a vampire is a Tliz. These are life-draining undead defilers. We should think about expanding the moroi powers along those lines. There is an entry for T'liz in the Secrets of the Deadlands pdf. I guess the fluff idea is that the free willed undead somehow interbred with mortals?


Tenro wrote:
If it is a possible angle I could do something to get a change shape. Also draj does occasionally accept strange races that prove of value

The other possibility is that the blink dogs have limited emporiums throughout the Seven City States of the Tablelands. They are seen as odd travelers, and have their own enclaves, not unlike the elven markets. This would also be a source of tension with the native merchant houses, who would resent the imposition of outsiders, and seek to undermine or even dispatch them.


Alias ad Tempus wrote:

The cult of Apsu... This is a question for the GM, and for players as well: would a Paladin be poorly received?

And would a paladin even make sense in this environment? I'm a big fan of the class but, while I do like playing the ever-so-good character, I find that alignments are over-simple. Long story short: should I build a paladin or an anti-paladin?!

I think you're looking at something more like a lawful neutral paladin. There definitely aren't lawful good ningishzidda that are champions. I think a neutral evil anti-paladin with a strong emphasis on the law part would be the best fit.

Keep in mind that the 'cult of Apsu' is the cult administered by the Ensik -- the male ruler/king of the ningishzidda. There is no 'god' Apsu -- that is simply a concept or mythology for organizing the 'priesthood' of the Ensik's cult. The actual ritual functionaries are various occult classes, dragon disciples, shifters, and other casters. The porphyra system unifies all the spell lists, so there really isn't any difference between 'arcane' and 'divine' magic. There are 'casters' who get there power through the four elemental strongholds, as well as the other subsidiary elemental planes, and there are others that use the power sources like the sun/moon/defiling/preserving. This overlaps in some areas. Its more a fluff issue than a mechanical one.


Monkeygod wrote:

Seb, you wanted me to post the Moroi stats, so you could decide how best to boost them.

As I said in recruitment, at one point in our discussion about boosting the Yaksha(a similar race) for Hamza, we were going to just give him levels in the Yaksha racial class.

The Yaksha is a 14 point race, without factoring in the Insatiable Consumption weakness. As it only affects them if they fail to eat humanoid flesh = to their weight over a month, I would rate it a -1 maybe -2. Which would make the Yaksha either a 12 or 13 point race.

We gave Hamza the Shadow Lord template, which is +2, and includes +4 to both Dex and Cha, along with several other rather strong benefits.

** spoiler omitted **

I calculated the Moroi to be a 8 point race, but it's kinda difficult as I had to ad-hoc a few things.

I would like to give the Moroi between 3-5 levels of their racial class...

Could you put this in recruitment please? I want to keep this thread for fluff issues.


So how exactly did he infiltrate Draj -- the inhabitants would think it was odd that a talking dog was interested in their religion?


Is this the blink dog or the other character?

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