Revix Belstrann II's page

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I'm playing in a game at a local con tonight, and while I don't necessarily need to have this cleared up by then, I'll probably ask the GM and / or my VL about it. I'm a bit obsessive about details ... :)

While filling out my PC's inventory tracking sheet for the first time, I noticed that I made a boneheaded mistake a number of scenarios ago. I sold a masterwork scimitar for 50% of its cost and purchased a brand new scimitar +1 ... instead of just paying for the +1 bonus on my existing masterwork scimitar.

Is there a way I can correct this mistake (that is, recover the money I had to pay for the new scimitar, except for the +1 bonus), or am I stuck with my mistake?

Thanks, Jiggy and Jodokai! I'll check into those items and materials. Mithral certainly sounds interesting, though I have a feeling it's going to be a bit pricey.

Great advice, Thorkull! I haven't played a ton of RPGs lately, so my creative muscles are a bit out of shape. :)

Thanks again, Nathan! I'll do that.

Thanks, Jiggy! That's thinking outside the box, at least for me.

In what books can I find said potions?

Thanks, Nathan! I figured that's what I should do.

I guess my hesitance has been regarding whether to keep agile breastplate as my character's armor. I like its benefits, but somehow it doesn't feel all that "paladiny".

Maybe the decision should be based on my character's personal preferences (withstanding damage in combat, which is more frequent vs. risking death due to drowning or falling, which has happened but not as frequently).

Also, all these purchasing decisions seem so final. I wait and save up funds to buy certain items, then consider selling them and switching to something else, which seems like a waste of gold.

Am I over-thinking this?

My next PFS game day is this Sunday, and my character needs to spend some loot from the previous scenario ... but I don't know how he should spend it!

Character = 4th level paladin of Sarenrae. Already has a magic sword.

Should he buy magic armor next? And if so, should he keep agile breastplate or switch to something else? (A note about this: After struggling with some climb and jump checks that left him floundering in the ocean, he switched to agile breastplate armor. He'll never be the guy who volunteers to scale the walls or perform death-defying feats of agility, but I like that he's at least in a little better situation to succeed with his current armor.)

I don't have my character sheet in front of me, so I don't know exactly how much gold he has to spend. But in general, is magic armor the next step for his equipment?

Thanks!

This thread is a continuation of my previous post, "Pretend you're my GM - what would you do?".

I've recently converted two of my 3.5 PCs to the Pathfinder rules. In doing so, I discovered that their wealth-by-level isn't up to par with the target for their level.

After some really good discussion (and some math corrections on my part!), I've decided to post my PCs' relevant stats so you can help me determine what items would be good to buy with the extra cash that I'm hoping my GM will grant me.

NG Dwarf Fighter 13
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10
Saves: Fort 12, Ref 8, Will 7
Misc.: AC 26, CMB +18, CMD 31, 166hp
Skills: Acrob. 9, Appr. 3, Climb 13, Knowl. (dungeoneering) 10, Know. (engineering) 10, Perc. 9, Ride 11, Stealth 11, Surv. 10, Swim 13
Feats: Weapon Focus (Dw. Waraxe), Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Spec. (Dw. Waraxe), Toughness, Blind-Fight, Endurance, Imp. Crit. (Dw. Waraxe), Diehard, Dodge, Mobility, Crit. Focus, Bleeding Crit.
Gear: Dw. Waraxe +2 (shock, thunder), Comp. Longbow (Str 4), Handaxe, Breastplate +1, Hvy. St. Shield +2, Ring of Prot. +1, Potions (Aid, CMW, CSW), Ring of Minor Fire Resist., Cloak of Resist. +1, misc. mundane gear
Wealth by level: 67,440gp out of 140,000gp (-72,560gp)

CG Half-Elf Ranger 13
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 12
Saves: Fort 10, Ref 13, Will 6
Misc.: AC 27, CMB +15, CMD 30, 142hp
Skills: Acrob. 12, Climb 12, Heal 10, Knowl. (geography) 12, Know. (nature) 17, Perc. 20, Ride 13, Stealth 26, Surv. 24, Swim 12
Feats: Skill Focus (Surv.), Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Combat Reflexes, Rapid Shot, Toughness, Pinpoint Targeting, Endurance, Imp. Crit. (Longsword), Imp. Crit. (Longbow), Imp. Precise Shot, Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Combat Style: Archery
Favored Enemies: Humanoids (Giants), Undead, TBD
Favored Terrains: Forest, Underground, TBD
Gear: Longsword +2 (undead bane), Longsword +1 (giant bane, shock),Comp. Longbow +2 (Str 2), Lt. Mace +2, Buckler +2, Ring of Prot. +2, Ioun Stone (+1 AC), Chain Shirt +2 (shadow, lt. fort.), Scroll (Command Plants, Water Walk), Headband of Alluring Charisma +2, Potions (Heroism, CMW, CSW), Belt of Inc. Dex. +2, Ring of Sustenance, 2 arrows of sleep, misc. mundane gear
Wealth by level: 105,093gp out of 140,000gp (-34,907gp)

@Erik Freund - There's definitely a story with these PCs. I'm an obsessive note-taker, so I've got enough info on each of their adventures to figure out some creative reason why they suddenly have so much cool stuff. Not only were they chasing some giants (and their loot!), but their party was also owed a BIG favor by a wizard they freed from prison.

@Selgard - Yep, parity with the rest of my PCs' future adventuring party is a high priority.

@mplindustries - Not unhelpful at all! I don't think I'd ask to use these PCs in your campaign, given your house rules, but you highlight my need to be willing to cooperate with my GM on the conversion, which is helpful in restraining my enthusiasm and attachment to certain "wish list" items.

@Torger - Whoever my GM ends up being, I hope he/she is as fair-minded as you! I've experienced the "it'll work itself out" effect before, so I wouldn't be too worried, except that my PCs would survive long enough to be able to say: "Hey, I need more stuff!"

@Mudfoot - I'm not familiar with the term "kit" as you're using it, however, I'm going to try to post the relevant stats for my PCs in the very near future. My next step in the conversion process was going to be drawing up a "wish list", and I'll definitely want some messageboard input on that!

@Turin - I don't think the blessed book itself would be all that useful to my PCs, since neither of them are spellbook-requiring casters. However, such an item in their possession could certainly make for an interesting side adventure in which my PCs used the book as a bargaining tool to influence a powerful / wealthy NPC who gives them the loot that winds up bringing their WBL up to par.

Thanks, everyone, for the input so far - this has all been very helpful! I'll see about posting my PCs' stats soon, if that would help clarify things. At the very least, it'll give us something fun to chew on!

It would depend on a lot of things.

1. I would convert all of your gear towards Pathfinder equivalents. That conversion alone may very well change the equation right off the bat. After that it would be a case by case basis on what you had and where in level are you.

2. Wealth by level target is just a loose guideline, if what you have in my judgement at the end of step 1, makes you viable, then I don't see a reason for change.

I appreciate your response, LazarX. I did find some items that needed to be changed from their 3.5 status, but I don't know if it really affected the wealth level all that much. In most cases it was a replacement of one item ability with another.

Good point about viability. In 3.5 my PCs were still underpowered in terms of wealth, but not by as much as PF. And they're still alive and kickin', so it couldn't have been that much of a problem. Must have been my superior skills and talent as a player ...

If you agreed to this, my first reaction would be to scrap all of your 3.5 gear and wealth and just start with a clean 140,000 GP to spend on Pathfinder items. My only stipulation would be to equip similar items when possible to what you had in 3.5. For example, if you WERE wearing a suit of +1 full plate, I would ask that your new converted character have a suit of full plate OF SOME KIND equipped. It could simply be a suit of masterwork full plate, or it could be a +2 full plate - just as long as you are similarly equipped to your old character. Any extra leftover gold could be spent however you see fit. Since this is a special case, I would want to compare your new GP allotment to your old 3.5 character's gear and GP, but as long as your newly equipped Pathfinder character isn't wildly different than he was in 3.5 (besides new gear or upgrades gained from the extra GP), I would think that a clean start with 140,000 GP would be the easiest and best way to go about it, and would go that route if you were of a similar mind. If you as a player don't like this approach, I would be willing to explore other alternatives with you.

EDIT: I suggest this because to me, your character's wealth allotment is a mechanic. It might seem odd that you suddenly have a ton of extra GP, but keep in mind that this is a character conversion. The system is different from 3.5. So it's okay that you "suddenly" have more GP, because that's what the conversion dictates. There's no NEED to roleplay or justify the sudden jump in GP other than the fact that you're playing a converted character. If you absolutely WANT to just earn the extra GP from adventuring because you don't want to feel like you're cheating, that's fine - but I would warn you that at least in starting out, you would be playing an under-geared Pathfinder character, since he hasn't been completely converted properly... my 2 cents from a fellow DM. :)

Thanks, Sinatar. Thinking over your response, this approach would probably help clean up some of the conversion process for me. Quite honestly, I'm a different player now than I was when I last played these PCs, and I'd make some decisions differently now based on my conception of them. Plus, who wouldn't enjoy spending that much cash on their characters!

Have them kill a bandit chief with neat stuff. Make it one encounter.

Thanks for your idea, Marthkus.

One encounter with a 107,000gp reward? That would be one whopping battle! As would be the follow-up battle between my PCs over how much loot each one of them gets ...

I don't use the Wealth by Level tables. Players sometimes like to use them as support for arguments that they are entitled to certain levels of wealth...

If players want to bring in characters from other games, I review ALL aspects of the characters. For wealth, I look at the highs and lows for each character as well as the items that they carry (in case there are any items I would not allow) and then come up with a list of changes to propose to the group. Hopefully, this would lead to a happy compromise.

Note, that could mean lowering the overall wealth of the group too...not just allowing 'buying up'.

Thanks for responding, RedDogMT - a very reasonable approach. I think my greatest concern for these PCs is that they'd be on par with their other party members. If they fit as-is, that would be fine with me. (Though I might make a case to my GM to throw my fighter a bone; his weapon and armor situation is a bit lame at the moment due to some unfortunate events in previous adventures.)

If I were your GM and if I had enough time, I would run a few adventures by you so that you can get the needed loot.

If I did not have enough time, I would ask you to spend the missing GPs as if you had earned them the hard way and check how you do it. It would be a very good litmus test IMO to see if we can play well together.

Thanks, Black Raven. Given that I have a 6-month-old child at home, time for extra adventures - like my PCs' wealth - is a resource I'm woefully short on at the moment. Looks like we'd be taking your 2nd option!

In general to start in a campaign I would let you bring your character up to par with the other characters.

I wouldn't have any real problem with just giving you the extra gold and asking you to run your purchase requests by me. If I saw anything goofy, I'd probably suggest something else. In general though I'd let you purchase what you wanted.

For role playing purposes I'd probably have some rich patron reward you for your past bravery and throw you a lavish party.

Thanks for your response, Adamantine Dragon. The party idea sounds great! I wonder if I could get something like that to happen in real life ...

I agree that there's no reason you shouldn't have the same amount of gold as the other players, but as a GM I'd be a little leery of just handing a PC 62,000 gp and telling him to go shopping. There's some quite ridiculous things a PC can do with that kind of spending money.

More likely I'd offer to give the PC 62,000 gp worth of gear and magic items. That way I can make sure they're not combing through every PDF looking for items that can break the game, but still make sure they're equipped properly. Also, this would be a great way to give the new player some idea of what kind of a campaign this is going to be. If I give him tricked out magic weapons and armor, that sends a different signal than if I give him a small pile of Wondrous Items. If I give him a Folding Boat, a Hat of Disguise, and a Ring of Feather Fall, he knows he'll probably get a chance to use them.

Of course, I wouldn't use this as an opportunity to screw the guy over. I'd make sure that what I give him matches what class he is (no plate mail for the wizard, for example). If I upgraded his weapon from +2 to +5, I'd let him choose which special properties get added to it. If I gave him a stat-increasing belt or headband, it'd be for a stat that he'll actually use. I wouldn't give him too much in the form of consumables-- a few wands are fine if I want to make sure the party has access to a certain spell, but 62,000 gp worth of scrolls would be an insult even to a wizard.

Ah, the honor system, for both player and GM; some very good points!

This makes a lot of sense. I'd probably (because I'm a bit on the obsessive side) make a list of items I'd like to spend the money on and present it to the GM before just showing up to play with all that stuff and expecting everything to be OK.

Thanks for your input, Silent Saturn!

These are great suggestions - many thanks!

Thinking back to where these PCs left off, they were mid-way through an adventure in which they were fighting A LOT of giants and tracking them to their lair(s) to learn about their operations in the region.

Our party had almost caught the leader and his lackeys when they got away ... and took all of their loot with them!

So the side adventure / backstory / windfall of additional wealth could simply be that the PCs' party finally caught up to the giants, defeated them, and got their loot. I think this is a pretty reasonable solution, and hopefully my future GM would agree.

Again, thanks for the ideas!

Recently I've converted two of my PCs from the 3.5 system to Pathfinder. I have no current plans for these PCs to be involved in a campaign anytime in the near future, so the conversion was really just for my own kicks and giggles.

However, at the end of the conversion process, I came to a dilemma whose solution is GM-dependent: both PCs are woefully short of the wealth by level target given on Table 12-4, p.399 of the Core Rulebook.

The PCs had just achieved 13th level when I stopped playing them in the 3.5 system. According to the CRB, their wealth target is 140,000gp. I know this number is intended as a general target / rule, but one of my PCs is 45,000gp short of it, and the other is 62,000gp short. These are significant gaps, and if I played either of my PCs with a group of PCs that was on target with their wealth, they'd be seriously underpowered. (You can buy some fun toys for 45,000-62,000gp!)

So all you GMs out there - please let me know what you would do to address this dilemma if I wanted to use one of these PCs in your campaign.

Thanks for your responses, tonyz and byrdology. I'll toss those ideas around and see what I come up with.

I have a level 13 ranger and need to choose a new favored enemy and terrain. Current favored enemies are giant and undead. Current favored terrains are forest and underground.

This PC is not currently involved in an active campaign; I'm converting him from 3.5 to PF.

So, I'd like some advice on what would be a useful favored enemy and terrain to choose.

Perhaps they considered that each and every class entry shows the progression - exactly as that 3.5 chart did) to be enough clarification to the rule as it was written. If I recall, you're having to figure out the same math looking at that 3.5 chart, as you do any class chart in Pathfinder. Look at any entry (barbarian, fighter, etc., and you'll see it at work exactly like that 3.5 chart).

The assumption that it somehow changed seems like extra work.

Thanks for your response, Bruunwald!

The individual class charts are pretty much identical between 3.5 and PF. However, the class chapter in 3.5 has an additional table at the beginning that shows total character level, and then what the base save and base attack bonuses are for good, average, and poor progressions. PF doesn't have that additional table in its CRB, which is where my confusion stems from. If the CRB included that table, I don't think I would have been confused.

Your comment about the game designers considering the similarities between the 2 systems to be enough clarification confirms a suspicion that I had - namely, that there was an assumption that people would understand the attack progressions would work the same way between the systems. I picked up on this because I've played 3.5 before, but my concern is for people who come to PF not having a 3.5 background. I think it's confusing and could have been presented a little more clearly. But then, maybe that's what the messageboards are for. :)

You don't add the iterative/. The iterative is calculated from the BAB. Add just the BAB and calculate the iterative attacks from there.

You new BAB is 13. Thus the iterative atks are 8 & 3.

The numbers on the charts are just there so you dont have to do the math. You never ADD the iterative atk numbers, just the base BAB.

Thanks again! I completely understand the reasoning, and I can see that now in the BAB definition I posted earlier. I just wish it was stated more clearly in the CRB, like Table 3-1 in the 3.5 PHB.

Thanks for your response, Pupsocket, though I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean.

The +6/+1 I'm referring to are the attack bonuses for a level 6 fighter, and the +7/+2 are the bonuses for a level 7 ranger. I added them together to get +13/+3 for my PC, but that didn't seem right to me.

Perhaps you could say more about what you mean?

Thanks for your input, DrDeth. Is there somewhere specific in the CRB you could point me to that deals with BAB and multiclassing? I've found a couple places where each topic is addressed separately, but can't seem to find anything that deals with them both together.

Here's what I've found:

1.) "Base Attack Bonus (BAB): Each creature has a base attack bonus and it represents its skill in combat. As a character gains levels or Hit Dice, his base attack bonus improves. When a creature's base attack bonus reaches +6, +11, or +16, he receives an additional attack in combat when he takes a full-attack action."

2.) "Instead of gaining the abilities granted by the next level in your character's current class, he can instead gain the 1st-level abilities of a new class, adding all of those abilities to his existing ones. This is known as 'multiclassing.' For example, let's say a 5th-level fighter decides to dabble in the arcane arts, and adds one level of wizard when he advances to 6th level. Such a character would have the powers and abilities of both a 5th-level fighter and a 1st-level wizard, but would still be considered a 6th-level character. (His class levels would be 5th and 1st, but his total character level is 6th.) He keeps all of his bonus feats gained from 5 levels of fighter, but can now also cast 1st-level spells and picks an arcane school. He adds all of the hit points, base attack bonuses, and saving throw bonuses from a 1st-level wizard on top of those gained from being a 5th-level fighter. Note that there are a number of effects and prerequisites that rely on a character's level or Hit Dice. Such effects are always based on the total number of levels or Hit Dice a character possesses, not just those from one class. The exception to this is class abilities, most of which are based on the total number of class levels that a character possesses of that particular class."

The first quote seems to point to the 13/8/3 attack bonus. However, the second quote seems to indicate that I should add the ranger 7 and fighter 6 attack bonuses together, which is how I came to 13/3 without the 8. Neither of these quotes addresses the situation clearly, in my opinion.

What are your thoughts (or anyone else's thoughts)?

1. What is your name?

2. What is your quest?
3. What is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

I am Arthur, King of the Britons.

Thanks Ben & Dr. Here are some further thoughts:

I don't have a GM for these PCs; I'm basically doing this for kicks and giggles. So is it fair to take some reasonable liberties with my conversions?

Also, my ranger/fighter's armor also had the shadow ability, which is carried over into PF and gives a Stealth bonus. So that's why I don't know what to do with the 2nd ability.

The only reason my ranger/fighter has levels in fighter is because he started in 3.0 as a ranger, then got his hit points nerfed when 3.5 came out, so I gave him levels of fighter simply to get his hp up. I've thought about just going straight ranger 13 in PF. Could this be one of those "reasonable liberties"?

Finally, is the 13/8/3 attack bonus because of total PC level? I was just adding the 6/1 from fighter and 7/2 from ranger. Not sure if I was doing that correctly. I saw a table in 3.5 that had BAB by character level and "type" of BAB, but didn't see a similar table in the CRB.

In converting 2 of my PCs from 3.5 to PF, I've come to the following questions I'd like your input on:

1.) My ranger 7/fighter 6 PC has attack bonuses of +13/+3. In 3.5 he had +13/+8/+3. Question: what happened to his 3rd attack when he was converted?

2.) This same PC also had magic armor with the Silent Moves special ability in 3.5 (granted a bonus to the Move Silently skill). Question: Since this ability and skill don't exist in PF, do I pick a new ability for the armor?

3.) My fighter 12 PC initially took a level of barbarian when he leveled to 13 in 3.5, but I never actually played him after he leveled. Question: Should I carry this over to PF, or should I go with a 13th level of fighter?

I look at all gear at book value or purchase value, ie 100% cost.

The wealth by level is not based on me selling all my items to buy new ones. It is just a guideline for where the designers felt a character should be at any given level.

That's what I thought, too, but I wasn't entirely sure.

Many thanks, Hendelbolaf!

I'm looking through my stack of PC sheets and would like to determine if they're meeting (or at least in the ballpark of) the wealth by level amounts on Table 12-4 of the Core Rulebook.

To do this, do I calculate the total GP it cost my PCs to purchase all of their items (100% of cost), or do I calculate what they would receive if they sold all of their items (50% of cost)?

Revix Belstrann II wrote:

Would Gods & Magic be a good resource as well?

If you're looking specifically for the deities, yes, but that's doesn't cover much of the metaphysical makeup of the realms beyond Golarion's borders. Speaking of non-metaphysical realms, you'll want to snag Distant Worlds as well, as that deals with Golarion's solar system.

Thanks again!

Would Gods & Magic be a good resource as well?

Moved thread.

Your first, best bet would be The Inner Sea World Guide, followed by The Great Beyond.

This looks perfect, Liz - thank you! And only about 7-8 minutes after my original post!

... the most complete information about the history and cosmology of Golarion?

There's a lot more behind this question, but this is probably a good starting place.

Thanks!