Duergar Hammer

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Wow, a lot of good feedback here. Sorry its taken me so long to respond. I do agree that what I posted was a "white room" situation. I know that measuring max damage is not a good indicator, it just seemed really strange to me that the rogue class can do that much damage in a round compared to what a Fighter or Champion can do.

As to MAP, we may be doing something wrong there. I mean with a finesse weapon the MAP is a -8 to all attacks after the second. So it goes
Attk. 1: No penalty
Attk. 2: -4
Attk. 3: -8
All subsequent attacks -8.

At 20th level this rogue had a +37 to hit, so you are looking at a +29 to hit. When you apply the Flat Footed, which the thief applies very easily, it's a +31. Rolling a 15 or higher for an AC of 46 is not that high. Am I doing MAP wrong? Is it supposed to be going up on each subsequent attack?

As to the questions about Flat Footed, during our dungeon crawl, we played 2 fighters and a rogue. We applied flat-footed by positioning one fighter in front of the creature and then position the rogue in a flanking position behind. The two fighters in the group were able to position in a way that with a simple stride action you can easily position the rogue into a flanking position, giving them their sneak attack on virtually every attack. According to the book, the flat-footed from flanking doesn't go away until someone moves. So if you use it with abilities or spells that keep the enemy from moving ( ie. Hold Person, Immobilize, Paralyze, Stunned, etc ) the rogue can quickly decimate and opponent.

I just think it's broken because they also get so many feats and skills, and can do a ton of damage. And this rouge we played at 20th had 192 HP which is not a small amount, and a 36/38 armor class ( the 38 applied with nimble roll ) so it's not super easy to hit.

I posted this with the understanding that I think we are misunderstanding something, but the more I look at the rules, i don't think we are doing anything incorrectly.


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I've been searching through the forums to try and see if anyone else has noticed this. The Rogue class in P2, seems to be completely and utterly broken. We have been testing out the system and getting familiar with it in my local group. We have been just rolling up characters at different levels and running them in pop up dungeons to see how they fair in battles against different types of creatures. We rolled up at 20th level Rogue character and optimized the feats taken around it's backstab ability. We gave it Anklets of Alacrity, a +2 Resilient Armor and a +2 Greater Striking short sword, with Flaming and Corrosive Properties. I know that is a lot of magic, but we wanted to see what a full powered rogue looked like. Through this test, we found that due to it's ability to always get it's sneak damage, coupled with it's ability to get an additional attack with sneak damage when ever another party member hits the enemy, if they rolled all crits they can do over 700 points of damage in a round. With the shortsword we gave them they get 9d6+2d10 persistent fire, and 3d6 additional acid damage that can be applied per hit. That is 184 points of damage ( 92 doubled after critical ) per strike and they technically get 4 strikes per encounter round equaling 736 points of damage in a single round of combat.

The fighter I created to go with it, with it's sword maxed out can do around 300 per round using the same metric with each attack being a critical.

It seems to me this disparity is pretty revealing. We even noticed during combat at lower levels, the rogue's ability to apply sneak damage any time a creature is flat footed, and then around level 10 it gets the ability to apply status effects with its strikes, and then at 16 it can even dispel magic. This all seems very over powered.

We took the 20th level character above and ran it against an Ancient Gold Dragon, and the Rogue, by itself with no assistance, almost killed it.

Is there something we are missing about sneak damage or how the flat footed condition works?

Has anyone else noticed how broken this class is?