RedMageSA's page

RedMageSA wrote:

You realize this means he needs 500 dollars from each of his players at the three year cap to break even.

Not even remotely true. You failed your save vs. reading comprehension.

I am genuinely curious though, what's your budget going to be? Because saying "oh we will just cap players that'll do it cheaper" is not really workable. Surely someone who isn't bothering to correct the "MMO Steve Jobs" claim has a pretty good idea what your game is going to run to make.

But RedMage, he's made a HUGE point out of noting how he and Lisa are working the system to produce this game cheaply. I doubt PFO will be using a budget over 30 million.

Oh thats good. He'll only need to make $250 a head. :rolleyes:

RedMageSA wrote:

You realize this means he needs 500 dollars from each of his players at the three year cap to break even. Thats a hefty goal. I am beginning to understand why Dancey is no longer with CCP.

I'm confused - where are you getting that number from? He stated that at 3 years he expects to have 120,000 paying customers. Multiply that by $500 and you get a $60,000,000 budget. Where did he say that was going to be his operating budget?

Ryan Dancey wrote:

When I first approached Lisa about a Pathfinder MMO, I presented a plan roughly on par with the kind of development that had been the norm in the industry for the past 5 years: a $50+ million budget, a 3 to 5 year timeline, and a development staff of 50 to 75 people.

If you're talking about that, he next stated that he scrapped that plan and then spent the rest of the blog explaining how he was going to do it MUCH cheaper.

I presented a plan roughly on par with the kind of development that had been the norm in the industry for the past 5 years: a $50+ million budget, a 3 to 5 year timeline, and a development staff of 50 to 75 people.

I rounded upwards because honestly 50 mill. is not a huge budget, and that would just be to build the game. $416 per player would be needed just to recoup that budget. That is a lot.

Edit: I dont think I am making this clear. He is going to need a budget easily in the 50 million range to build a workable modern MMO. This is not a theme park versus sandbox thing, this is not a "well WoW did/didnt do it" thing. This is a cold hard realfact. Video Games are expensive to make. MMOs are more expensive to make because honestly they ask for more. You need a solid network architecture and infrastructure or your game will be rightfully panned

You realize this means he needs 500 dollars from each of his players at the three year cap to break even. Thats a hefty goal. I am beginning to understand why Dancey is no longer with CCP.

Although this is important for new players in my opinion if you're going down the route of multiple servers, I'd suggest some servers being marked as "friendly" and others as "indifferent". The latter being extremely loose on the rules of scamming and associated behaviours. Why? Bandits, thieves and nasty organisations in general are a majour part of Golarion. By offering the opportunity to play in an "indifferent" server players can explore different paths of their characters and this could lead to some very interesting player interactions and politics.

I will say it again:

I mean that would catch all but the most dedicated.

The fact of the matter is that yes the most dedicated of griefers could circumvent ANY ban. But most griefers really aren't that dedicated. Read "Players who Suit MUDS" as it is basically the textbook on "how to do an mmo"

RedMageSA wrote:

Ryan Dancey wrote:

Be aware that on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. It's impossible to ban a PERSON from Pathfinder Online because its very easy for one human to impersonate many different players - and people can and will do so for all sorts of reasons. The best we can do is try to connect accounts together when we believe they're controlled by individuals who have been excluded from the game, but that is never a perfect solution.

You realize you could just like, require a credit card for every account, and ban based on billing address if you really want someone gone. I mean that would catch all but the most dedicated. You'd think you would like know this claiming to be the MMO Steve Jobs and all

Well 2 flaws with that idea.

1. Elimination of F2P players, the free to play model pretty much is noting that even players who don't pay, add to the value of the game for themselves and those who do (by having more players, the world is more lush for those who do pay, and thus more paying customers stick around, everyone wins). By requiring a credit card you add issues for out of country players, teenagers etc... Once you mandate a credit card all free to play concepts go out the window, as people who don't want to pay, certainly fear giving their credit card numbers away.

2. Family members/roommates. Say a 17 year old living at home and his 13 year old younger brother, have seperate accounts, but the only CC number is the father of the household, the 13 year old is a solid businessman in game, runs a very trustworthy business in the game. The 17 year old is a griefing jerk. By this logic you still have the issue set forth of an innocent getting banned for someone elses mistake.

(Note I intentionally chose the younger one as the good guy in this example because many people forget, in the MMO world, age and maturity often do not line up even slightly, many times the mature one is young and the old one is not mature).

Let me respond to your points in order:

Point One: who gives a damn. Unless you are ad subsidized a F2P player is nothing but a drain on your resources. Once he buys a small transaction, then he is a customer. Even if you want to reach out to people who are unlikely to spend anything, there are ways to ban F2P players. Valve Anti Cheat leverages the data steam collects about your system for example, to detect multiple free accounts being made on the same machine. Again this doesn't deter the most determined of determined but it catches most things.

Point Two: There is a reason most MMOs have special family accounts/account sharing policies. But as the account holder, you are responsible for whoever is on your account, simple as that. If the 17 year old can't abide the TOS, the 13 year old suffers, such is the harsh reality of the world.

Be aware that on the internet, nobody knows you're a dog. It's impossible to ban a PERSON from Pathfinder Online because its very easy for one human to impersonate many different players - and people can and will do so for all sorts of reasons. The best we can do is try to connect accounts together when we believe they're controlled by individuals who have been excluded from the game, but that is never a perfect solution.

You realize you could just like, require a credit card for every account, and ban based on billing address if you really want someone gone. I mean that would catch all but the most dedicated. You'd think you would like know this claiming to be the MMO Steve Jobs and all