Ravenhurst1161's page

So I’ve been following this thread with great interest, and I want to weigh in not just from a theorycrafting standpoint, but from actual weekly gameplay experience. Mind you, I am not well-versed in this system, so some information may be incorrect.

I'm currently running a 9th-level "Ninja" in a Kingmaker campaign — built as a Palace Echoes Kitsune Rogue using the Thief Racket, with Assassin and Shadowdancer dedications layered on. My focus is stealth, mobility, evasive resilience, and alpha precision damage. On paper? It works. But in practice? It exposes just how much the current system lacks to support the Ninja fantasy as its own thing.

You can preview the build here: https://pathbuilder2e.com/launch.html?build=1177828

Let me give you a sense of what this character can already do:

• 90 feet of movement per round while remaining fully stealthed, climbing, swimming, or even crawling — thanks to Fleet, Mobility, Cat Fall, Nimble Crawl, Rolling Landing, and Swift Sneak.

• Greater Darkvision, +2 to Stealth in dim light or darkness (Palace Echoes heritage), and Shadow Rune on armor (+1 stealth, +1 saves).

• Deny Advantage, Rogue Resilience, and Evasive Reflexes for potent defense — plus crit success upgrades on Reflex and Fort saves.

• Mark for Death + Sneak Attack + Incredible Initiative + 90ft of stealth movement = a very cinematic opener.

In-character, I lean heavily into the trope of the ever-absent shadow: unseen until spoken of, then suddenly there. Thematically? It hits. Mechanically? It’s patched together with duct tape and prayer. Everything I do had to be carefully picked from dozens of sources and weighed against what I had to give up to get it. I can get Taijutsu — the physical aspect — to work, but that’s where the support ends.

Where this “Rogue with archetypes” approach collapses is when I try to dip into Ninjutsu or Genjutsu:

• Want to throw a kunai with an ofuda talisman to cast Darkness or Fireball? Requires investing in another archetype with multiple feats — a heavy cost.

• Want a Substitution Technique that lets me poof out at 1 HP and avoid death once per day? I have to beg for magic items or awkwardly justify a focus spell.

• Want utility illusions, minor teleportation, or mystical smokescreen shenanigans? Time to cannibalize half the build.

If I want to dabble in mystic ninja territory, I either need to burn 5+ feats for focus spells (and be locked to only using 3 per encounter) or loan spells from allies (Loaner Spell is cool but janky). That’s not versatility — it’s jury-rigging.

Could magic items solve some of this? Sure, but that’s gold- and downtime-gated, and it doesn’t scale cleanly. It’s also not “Ninja as a class” — it’s “Ninja as a build tax.”

As others like ApocalypseJack and moosher12 have said, a true Ninja class shouldn’t be a loose reskin of Rogue, Magus, or Monk. It should be a modular chassis — a flexible platform that lets you decide what flavor of Ninja you want to be:

• Martial-only assassin? Go full Taijutsu.

• Jutsu-flavored shinobi with trick items and flashy movement? Hybrid route with embedded magical options.

• Genjutsu illusionist playing mind games and vanishing acts? Focus-spell/illusion route.

Give them a system — like the Kineticist’s Impulses or Swashbuckler’s Panache — where their combat loop revolves around setup and payoff. Let concealment, hidden status, feinting, and battlefield positioning unlock powerful abilities. Let “ninja tools” be real mechanical items with in-combat applications. Let them choose a style path, a curriculum of Ninjutsu/Genjutsu/Taijutsu, and specialize accordingly.

It doesn’t need to be a full caster. Hell, it shouldn’t be. But if you’re in a fantasy setting, pretending that “the realistic ninja wouldn’t use magic” is absurd — these are the kinds of characters who would absolutely use anything at their disposal to complete the mission. Including magic. Especially magic.

TL;DR:

Yes, Rogue + archetypes + items can approximate a ninja. But you shouldn’t need an Excel spreadsheet to make a fantasy class feel playable. Give us a Ninja class with:

• Modular talent trees (Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu)

• Setup/payoff combat rhythm

• Stealth-based precision, not off-guard reaction triggers

• Optional spellcasting/focus-based trickery

• A real identity, not just Rogue in cosplay

PF2’s class design is flexible and modular enough to make this work without breaking the game. I don’t want the ninja fantasy to feel like I’m getting away with something. I want it to be something the system embraces.