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My GM banned dueling, defending and guarding outright anyway since None of those are core enchantments and "dueling" implies that it's ment for duels and not for a wary swordsman that carefully walks through a dungeon with his sword drawn ^^'
So yeah, main question was with the dazing spell and I thank you all again for the Input ^^

Well, it's usually the thing you conjure up that deals damage. Even a magic missile spell creates a magical arrow that goes off and delivers damage. So I'm not sure Black Tentacles should be excluded based on that.

I do agree that summoned monsters seem beyond the intent of dazing spell. But there's harder to rule cases like Spiritual Weapon and Spiritual Ally. I would recommend asking the question "Would casting this spell break invisibility?" If the answer is yes, then it's damage is direct enough to apply dazing to.

That being said, a way Dazing Spell is often run (and which prevents it from being completely broken) is to only allow one chance for it to daze each enemy. So if you've got a dazing wall of fire, an enemy trying to walk through it might get dazed. But pass or fail, they won't have to save against it again even if they continue to take damage from it.

Yeah that would be my Interpretation as well, that if a spell breaks invisibility (and deals damage)it would be eligible to have the dazing effect added. But yeah I guess I have to have "the talk" with my GM again about several Topics :/

Thanks for the reply so far. Seems I really have to run it through with my DM but considering that he already banned me out of several core items already (he said every fist weapon, like cestus, brass knuckles and so on doesn't Count as weapon and thus can't be enchanted for dueling, or guarding or defending enchantments)I dread he will also ban me out of a perfectly fine core metamagic feat as well :/

And yes I also considered a persistent Hold Person spell :p

Hello there I have some questions about how dazing spell works with some "uncommon" spell choices to link it to.

Of course we all know the famous dazing Fireball. Hit it, let the enemies fail their save and they're dazed for 3 rounds, but what is about recurring damage spells? Like, what do I pick, Acid Arrow for example. Fire it once and every round the target takes damage it has to make another save to avoid getting dazed?

I think that example is still within RAI but how about Black Tentacle? Or summoning spells? I guess using a rod of Dazing spell together with Black Tentacles or a couple of summoned Monsters would be terrifying.

Does that work? I'd say at least Black tentacles "should" work since the spell does the damage, one "could" argue that a summoning spell doesn't deal damage per se, because by that Definition it would also break invisibility. Is there some official ruling on that or what are your opinions on it?

Sincerely
Ratnap

Consider a haunt as a trap that can reset itself. So yes, after surviving that trap you get to have EXP.
However I would discourage my Players to just sit in that mansion and fight the ghosts over and over for Bonus EXP :x

Best start two threads when the questions do not relate to each other.

An intelligent item is an NPC, treated as a construct. It much choose if a weak willed owner is preferred to a powerful one. Whichever makes more sense for it's stated alignment and personality, and most especially with any special purpose.

As an NPC, they get a full round's worth of actions. The GM can give them their own initiative, but it is usually played as sharing a PCs initiative like a pet (familiar, animal companion, mount...).

Their actions are limited to using their...

Okay, I'll Keep that in mind for my next question when I have one ^^

I've read (once again) through the intelligent item description and several questions are now solved, thanks for that ^^

So far I know that it can't make attacks on ist own since it can use only the Special listed powers it has attacks are not among them (but a flying item could very well use itself as a projectile or at least falling object)
Which brings me to the first question.

It can fly as if using the fly spell but only with a 30ft Speed. However the fly spell allows you to carry stuff around that doesn't exceed armour worn + heavy load weight. However an intelligent item has no STR score, so it can't lift anything around?

And while I confirmed that they're treated as constructs and have a fast BAB Progression nowhere is mentioned how they do attack rolls if a spell asks for it. It's said they use their item CL for spells and their highest mental score for DC (regardless of arcane, or divine spells) but nowhere is said how attack rolls are made.
And even though the CL is quite high they still lack a STR or DEX score so the actual roll is quite "bad" in most cases.

Is there anything that really spells it out how they do attack rolls and not just "implied"?

Thanks for the help ^^

Ratnap wrote:

It depends on the item and especially on the description.

Wands, potions, scrolls and staffs are always a Standard Action and provoke an Attack of Oppurtunity.

Worn items which use up a Slot can have varying activation Actions, from a command word (Standard Action which provokes no AoO)

And then there is the use activated item, that is always active or Triggers on ist own, when certain conditions are met (like the feather fall ring)

And then there are a couple of items that have move, Swift, free or immediate Actions activating them, but they're always in the description. When there is no mentioning of what Action it is to activate the item it's save to assume it's a Standard action

Using a wand or staff don't provoke an AoO.

Hm, neat ^^

It depends on the item and especially on the description.
Wands, potions, scrolls and staffs are always a Standard Action and provoke an Attack of Oppurtunity.

Worn items which use up a Slot can have varying activation Actions, from a command word (Standard Action which provokes no AoO)

And then there is the use activated item, that is always active or Triggers on ist own, when certain conditions are met (like the feather fall ring)

And then there are a couple of items that have move, Swift, free or immediate Actions activating them, but they're always in the description. When there is no mentioning of what Action it is to activate the item it's save to assume it's a Standard action

Hm, I'm not totally sure about that part though. Because in the spell Invisibility it's explicitly stated that gear you wear or items you pick up (and cover in your pockets) become invisible as well.
But you're probably right ^^

Okay I have parts of the answer figured out myself now.
Shadow Form + Shadow Blend together gives an Eidolon TOTAL concealment. And the definition of total concealment is:

If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can't attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

You can't execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

Thus an Eidolon with those evolutions is practically invisible as in “can’t be seen” making the discussion whether or not an Eidolon with those evolutions can make stealth checks while being observed in dim light obsolete. It just can’t be observed in dim light conditions. Also that effect even negates LLV and DV since it just activates whenever it is in anything less than bright light and ignores how the perceived illumination level is by others. Meaning an Eidolon is invisible in a dark cave whether its sneaking up to a human or an orc.

There is no talk about the equipment of the Eidolon though, only the Eidolon itself becomes shadowy and stuff, if it carries anything it should still be clearly visible and make creatures able to pinpoint its location (albeit still not allowing targeted spells at it for example)
Also I just noted that the Shadow Form evolution just talks about melee attacks doing half damage, so an Eidolon with those Evolutions can happily make ranged attacks while being invisible at full damage…

Well that is taken care off, but the question is still open for less than total concealment (the 20% one)
The link you provided ShieldLawrence was a nice read but didn’t help me to answer my question at all :/
The part about Cover and concealment especially confuses me.
Before that it’s said you can’t use stealth while being observed by a precise sense. And one precise sense is Vision, now on the next part it’s said you need to avoid the precise sense of the opponent to be allowed to use stealth. An example is the shadowy area. However! Being in a shadowy area doesn’t invalidate the Vision of an opponent. You’re still visible albeit with a 20% concealment.
Per definition you’re under observation and pinpointed and can also be targeted by effects, but you DO have concealment which would allow you to make stealth checks without the need of a bluff check first because you HAVE already concealment. The Bluff check is needed when you want to hide under observation but DON’T have concealment or cover from the observing creature yet.

Honestly, I only want to know if you can make stealth checks without the need of bluff while being observed when you have 20% concealment. Be it from shadowy areas or standing in the border squares of a smoke screen or fog wall spell. It is fairly clear that you can make stealth checks under those conditions as long as you want up until the point where the enemy is able to beat your roll and observes you. The crux is now if you’re able to make further stealth checks against the same creature without the need of a bluff.

And some answers to the intelligent item Thing would be appreciated as well ^^'

I understand you it's still a very hard thing to wrap my head around :p

It’s fairly easy actually if you just look at the conditions.

grappled: Both combatants gain that condition unless they have special powers that say otherwise.
You cannot move, -4 DEX Penalty, -2 penalty to ALL attack rolls and combat maneuver checks EXCEPT those made to grapple, or to escape that grapple.
You can make no action that NEEDS two hands to perform. (neither a bite, nor a claw, nor a tail slap, nor a wing buffet NEED two hands to be performed to begin with)
You may cast spells, but can’t use spells that require somatic components.
You also can’t make Attacks of opportunity at all even not against the creature that is in the grapple with them (so you don’t need to cast defensively for example if the only threatening enemy is your grappler)

Making a grapple check is a STANDARD action, unless you have special powers (or feats) that say otherwise. So if the Grappler uses a Standard action to maintain the grapple it can’t make a full attack by no means because it already used up a standard action and has no full action available any more.

However! While the Grappler HAS to make a grapple check to maintain the grapple the Target can choose NOT to make a grapple check and has instead its whole action available. Which means having a full round action available and thus being able to make a full attack at the grappler with the -2 penalty to hit due to having the grappled condition and maybe another -2 if the Target was relying on the DEX mod to hit.

So yes indeed any creature can make a full attack with ALL its natural attacks against anything that trys to grapple it, that’s why grappling builds are most vulnerable in the first round when they initiate the grapple since it needs a standard action just to start it and they get to maintain it as a move action (greater grapple feat) the NEXT turn. In between the target gets a move and can unleash hell on whoever was grappling it. After that on Round 2 the Grappler may PIN the target which prevents it from attacking at all.
Which I quite frankly find ridiculous that EVERY SINGLE combat maneuver has a size restriction, but grapple does not. Even the thought of a a Halfling grappler pinning a gargantuan dragon is beyond me…

Having no grab ability doesn't mean that your Cougar can't make grapple attempts. It does provoke AoO on those though until you hit lvl 7 where it gets pounce and grab.

Hello there I’ve got a couple of questions. The offender here are a Summoner with a Shadow Form and Shadow Blend Eidolon and a Fighter with an intelligent weapon.

For starters the Eidolon:
It has Shadow Form (20% miss chance) and on top of it shadow blend (50% concealment when in shadowy areas)
The Stealth rules state, that you can make stealth checks if you have any kind of cover or concealment in regards to your enemy. Soft cover from creatures not bigger than yourself don’t allow stealth checks and things like Blur, Blink and the Miss chance you get from Lightning stance don’t allow you to use stealth either. That’s what I could gather so far.

However, the Eidolon thing seems to be something completely different “The Eidolons body becomes shadowy and more indistinct”
So what I’m asking now is this line from Stealth:

“Being Observed If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.”

I’m a little confused about this wording. Does this mean you can ALWAYS use stealth if you have cover or concealment even WHILE you’re observed? Or do you always have to make a bluff check first to use your stealth?

So far I ruled for him that his Eidolon can make stealth checks where it stands (because of innate 20% concealment even in broad daylight) as long as it isn’t observed by whoever it wants to sneak at. For example they know a room ahead is full of enemies and the Eidolon can walk around in plain view of the room while using stealth since it’s “indistinct” but if it gets spotted and a fight starts it can’t use stealth anymore, because it’s under observation of the enemies and would need a bluff check to make them look away and “hide” again.

Furthermore, does 50% concealment means automatically invisible? I think not, right? so as long as the Eidolon isn’t actively trying to be sneaky even the 50% concealment would allow anybody to see it “normally”

BTW as a side note, who of you guys and gals bother checking for the vision of the enemies how far a stealthy sneaker can hide in the shadows (because concealment from shadow should be only applied if the enemy can’t see all too clear into those said shadows :x )

Now to the intelligent weapon:

First Ego and picking a wielder. It is stated, that intelligent items prefer not so strong willed/weak wielders so they can control them. However, why would a weapon pick a lvl 1 fighter over a lvl 20 fighter? Even though the lvl 20 fighter is more likely to not be controlled she’s much more stronger and battle proven and sure to hit what the weapon wants to get hit. Also the lvl 20 fighter won’t die as easily as a lvl 1 one.

Intelligent items get an action on their own, that much I know, what I don’t know is on what INIT count they do that, do they get an independent attack on their own, what if they use a spell?
Which casterlevel is used? The Minimum CL for using that spell? The CL of the weapon itself?
What if the spell requires an attack roll? Does it use the BAB from the wielder? Uses it its own BAB and if so how to determine said BAB? How to determine the DC of the spell if it requires a saving throw?

And lastly, an intelligent item may be able to fly. Can it drag/lift its wielder around? How to determine the carrying capacity of that item, and could it be used to navigate a character that is under the effect of levitation?

That’s about it so far, thanks in advance for your responses ^^

Thanks for your replies so far, and several of your answer have already helped me a lot, but there are some points that are still unclear, or where I would have a different opinion upon ^^'

About grease:
Prior Ascalaphus stated that you apply the bonus from Improved grapple and greater grapple to your CMD, when you opponent makes a grapple check to escape the grapple, and here is the last sentence from the grease spell:

“A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and combat maneuver checks made to escape a grapple, and to their CMD to avoid being grappled. “

With the same logic you would add that +10 to your CMD increasing the difficulty for anyone who would try to use a grapple check to escape your grapple.

If the monster pins you, you can't attack it anymore and therefore no longer flank. But if the monster pins you, it still doesn't gain the pinned condition itself, so it doesn't lose Dex. Only you do.

That is wrong. When you pin someone, you lose your entire DEX bonus to AC (and to CMD as well then) as is stated here in the rules:

Which would allow a rogue to sneak attack you regardless of flanking conditions. That's also why it wasn't wrong to put penalties on the Agile Grappler when he pinned the Brutal grappler.

To both of you. Thank you for clarification with with the boni provided to CMD against checks the opponent makes to escape ^^
Also about the flanking, yes I think I confused myself.
The prerequisite for flanking is “must threaten an opponent.” but not “must be able to make AoO” Since you're still allowed to hit people when getting grappled as long as you don't have a two handed weapon you can provide flanking to others.

And yeah, the example with the 2 grapplers was just that, some convuluted stuff that are mostly just curious to see how the grapple rules play out ^^'

Don’t think I haven’t read and searched throughout the web for answers, but most, if not all of my questions where unanswered by forums and rule boards and several are probably somewhat houseruled by everyone.
It’s going to be a long read and there won’t be a tl;dr since there are going to be a lot of questions.
And if you know those questions have be answered by official side, please link away because I haven't found anything to those questions that are coming here ^^

Starting slowly with the pinned condition:
You can give a creature the pinned condition by successfully making a grapple check against a creature that you’re already grappling.
A pinned creature can make a combat maneuver, or escape artist check to escape the grapple.
Which means a pinned creature can never become the grappler right away? (the one controlling the grapple)

Also: A grapple check is (usually) a standard action and without a bigger investment in feats you can only make 1 grapple check per round. Successfully doing a grapple check allows you to give a creature the pinned status.
However: Does the pinned status continue in all subsequent rounds of grappling, or do you need to make a grapple check to pin the creature each round, thus never being able to damage, or move it around? (And I’m not asking about tying someone up, I’m talking about an actual grappling combat without means of tying up)

Grappling and Attack of Opportunity:
When you have the grappled condition you can’t make Attacks of Opportunity. It’s not noted for the pinned status, but I guess the “is limited in the actions…” is sufficient enough to not let pinned creatures make AoO.
Now there are some creatures/class powers/abilities (like grab) that say that you don’t get the grappled condition yourself while being the dominant grappler and/or can make AoO.
So when the grappled creature tries to make a grapple check to escape your grapple AND doesn’t has any feat/ability/spell that prevents it from provoking AoO when doing a grapple check, do you get an AoO when it just tries to escape the grapple it is in with you?
EDIT: Found the answer, trying to escape a grapple doesn’t provoke AoO but other actions like disarm, or dirty trick would, if you don’t have the corresponding feats.

Tying someone up:
The flow chart says that you can attempt to tie someone up you have grappled at a -10 penalty. When you fail, you’re still in the grappled condition.
According to that I come to believe, that you make the grapple check to maintain the grapple like normal and then make ANOTHER grapple check at -10 penalty to tie someone up. Is that correct this way? Because I would’ve thought that you’re supposed to make a “maintain grapple check” with a -10 penalty and when you succeed you tie your victim up, if you don’t succeed you lose grip while you fiddle around with the rope.

The Rake ability:
I guess that’s an easy one. According to text
“In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks that it can use only against a grappled foe“
That means the monster makes a grapple check as a standard action, dealing the damage of the limb that made the grapple (so for a tiger, either bite or claw) AND getting 2 more attacks for free (at a -2 penalty due to being in a grapple?) against the grappled target.

Constrict:
When you or a monster have the constrict ability you deal with EVERY grapple check the noted damage. So in case you have to use the pin action each round to continue the pinned status you also deal damage to your foe, when you have the constrict ability. Right?

Damaging in a grapple:
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
Does that mean in a grapple I can deal nonlethal weapon damage without incurring the -4 penalty for trying to deal nonlethal with a lethal weapon?
About armor spikes. In the armor page it’s noted they deal “extra piercing damage on grapple attacks” What means “extra” comes the 1d6 damage on top of a natural/unarmed attack? And are the spikes only dealing damage when using the damage action? Like not dealing damage, when you pin your opponent aka hugging tight?

Special Monster attacks:

The advanced hangman tree.
When the tree grapples with its vines it doesn’t gain the grappled condition.
But. A grapple check is still a standard action for it, so instead of flailing adventurers with 3 devastating vine whips it has to use a standard action to maintain the grapple it has on one unlucky adventurer if it wants to keep her grappled?

Grab special Attack == improved grapple?
Many monsters can make a free grapple check when hitting with a certain limb without provoking AoO and gain a +4 bonus on that grapple check. But what about simply STARTING a grapple like normally? For example when the foe has so high AC that the grabbing creature decides to just directly start a grapple, circumventing the AC it can’t possibly hit and instead target the CMD of its foe? Does the creature with the grab ability provoke an AoO when it tries to start a grapple without hitting its foe prior?
Also if a druid/ranger wants their companion to be a grappling monster and get them improved/greater grapple (after increasing the INT of the companion to 3) does having natural attacks that can grab already meet the prerequisite of the feat unarmed strike, or would one still need to get: improved unarmed strike > improved grapple > greater grapple?

Improved/Greater grapple and spells/items that explicitly increase your CMD against grapple attempts:
Reading through threads and discussions I came to the conclusion it’s not hard to start a grapple, but I came to the experience it’s hard to prevent the foe from ESCAPING it, since it’s a lot harder to accumulate bonus for CMD than for CMB, even though the CMD does add the DEX bonus (or penalty) as well. Especially when you’re not a Full BAB class without the combat defence training.
Now here’s the quiz question. Improved grapple increases your CMB for grapple by 2 and your CMD AGAINST grapple by 2.
Now you’re the active grappler and your foe tries to escape you. The rules explicitly state “make a combat maneuver, or escape artist check against the CMD of your opponent.”
In case of the combat maneuver I would say, yes you get the +2 to your CMD since a success in that combat maneuver check could make your foe becoming the dominant grappler.
But what about when you foe uses Escape Artist? She just wants to get away from you, not grapple you, would you still get the bonus from the feat?
Also the spell grease: Would a Grappler who uses grappling as the main thing to fight profit greatly from being under the effect of a grease spell? Because it raises the CMD against grapple by 10 and would foil any attempt to escape her grip.

Flanking, cover and ranged attacks:
When you have the grappled condition you can’t make AoO. Thus you don’t threaten adjacent foes and can’t provide flanking bonus to your allies in regards to other surrounding creatures. But what about the creature you’re grappling or that has you grappled right now?
The rules say you are adjacent to each other and NOT in the same square like it used to be in 3.5 Does that mean, when you’re grappled by a big ugly monster your friendly rogue can stroll around and sneak attack it in its back? Or does the rogue only get to make the sneak attacks if the ugly monster pins you and loses its DEX bonus to AC? (which is another situation a rogue may deal sneak attack as we know)
And even the other way around, when you’re the active grappler and have someone grappled, can your party rogue sneak attack your victim, when going into flanking position to you? I know the rogue doesn’t get to sneak attack just for attacking a grappled creature, since it’s only a DEX penalty and not “lose your DEX bonus blablabla” But I’m talking here about getting into flanking position, because normally a grappling creature shouldn’t? be able to provide flanking bonus.
Also since you aren’t on top of each other the ranger with Precise shot (no malus for shooting into melee) can fire arrows at her leisure as long as you don’t give the ugly grappling monster soft cover towards the rangers attacks?

Finally a practical example of a grapple fight, if I understood the rules right.
The opponents are both half-elf fighters level 5. They took Escape Artist as a class feat with their alternate racial. In the left the brutal grappler, and in the right the agile grappler.
I’m only going to note stats of interest here.
Brutal Grappler:
STR 20+5
DEX 10
BAB 5
AC 10
Feats: Imp Unarmed strike, Imp Grapple, Greater Grapple
Grapple Check: +14
Damage: 1d3+5
CMD: 20 Against grapple: 24
Escape Artist: 8

Agile Grappler
STR 10
DEX 20+5
BAB 5
AC 15
Feats: Imp Unarmed strike, Imp Grapple, Greater Grapple, Agile maneuver
Grapple Check: +14
Damage: 1d3
CMD: 20 Against grapple: 24
Escape Artist: 13

Round 1: Both grapplers start the round and enter the grapple. Brutal Grappler is the dominant grappler. Both take a -4 penalty to DEX
Brutal Grappler | Agile Grappler
Grapple Check +14 | +12
AC 8 | 13
CMD 18 | 18
CMD grapple 22 | 22
Escape Artist 6 | 11

We see right away, that the agile grappler is in a disadvantage here. He has still good chances to break the grapple and become the dominate grappler, but his rolls are worse the moment he’s in a grapple due to the -4 penalty on DEX and his reliance on DEX for his grapple checks (because of agile maneuvers) and with the +5 brutal grappler gets on his next turn for grapple checks he only needs to roll for 3 while the agile grappler needs to beat CMD 22 with his +12 on grapple checks (50% chance)

Round 2: Agile grappler fails to break the grapple and gets pinned by Brutal grappler. Brutal Grappler has -4 DEX, Agile grappler is denied his DEX bonus entirely and a -4 AC malus which also goes to CMD as well according to RAW
Brutal Grappler | Agile Grappler
Grapple Check +14 | +9
AC 8 | 6
CMD 18 | 11
CMD grapple 22 | 15
Escape Artist 6 | 8

From now on the battle continues, while the brutal grappler has the battle secured from his side to continue the grapple (as long as not rolling a 1 on one of his two allowed grapple checks per round) the Agile grappler has still a +9 on his grapple checks to beat the CMD of 22 (35% chance) of the Brutal grappler and then both their combat stats revert to normal again.

Now the other way around. The fight starts and the Agile grappler becomes the dominant one.
Round 1: Both grapplers start the round and enter the grapple. Agile Grappler is the dominant grappler. Both take a -4 penalty to DEX
Brutal Grappler | Agile Grappler
Grapple Check +14 | +12
AC 8 | 13
CMD 18 | 18
CMD grapple 22 | 22
Escape Artist 6 | 11

Agile grappler is the dominant one and gets a +5 on his next grapple check. However, due to the penalties from being in a grapple he has a harder time maintaining the battle already. Brutal grappler had to roll a 3 to maintain grapple, the Agile grappler needs to roll a 5. Brutal grappler has to beat the CMD 22 with his +14 to grapple checks (60%) chance.

Round 2: Brutal grappler failed to break the grapple (unlucky bastard) and is now pinned. But is this condition so detrimental to him? Because Agile grappler loses his DEX bonus to AC and subsequently to CMD as well.
Brutal Grappler | Agile Grappler
Grapple Check +14 | +12
AC 6 | 10
CMD 16 | 15
CMD grapple 20 | 19
Escape Artist 8 | 11

Now here we go where the grappling and especially pin rules become awkward!
Brutal grappler loses 2 to AC in contrast to being grappled before. Why? He doesn’t have the -4 penalty to DEX any more and “just” loses his DEX bonus to AC. Since he had no DEX bonus to begin with he INCREASES his AC and then subtracts the -4 AC malus from being pinned. While the Agile grappler even loses 3! AC because he’s denied his DEX bonus as well when pinning someone.
CMD is the same game. Brutal grappler loses only 2 points in them, while Agile grappler loses 3. The discrepancy becomes even greater the more Agile grappler invests in DEX.
Now comes the burner, the Escape Artist of Brutal Grappler RISES when he gets pinned, instead of grappled. Why? Because Brutal grappler doesn’t have a DEX penalty anymore, so his Escape Artist check actually INCREASES when he’s pinned instead of grappled. But since his Grapple Bonus is higher anyway he doesn't care all that much.
Even worse, now that brutal grappler is pinned it’s actually EASIER! for him to break that grapple from Agile Grappler. He has still a +14 on his grapple check, while Agile Grapplers CMD against grapple dropped to 19. Before he needed to roll a 8 to break the grapple, now it’s only a 5 (75% chance!) that is needed to do the same, even though he’s pinned and in a “much severe” state of grappling and the Agile Grappler still needs to roll a 3 to succeed in maintaining the grapple.

But as far as I see it, this is the correct application of the rules?