RadEn's page

Wow thanks. I felt like it was on that page but somehow managed to miss reading that line under "Benefit" every time I looked.

Possibly I just can't read. I can't find any rule preventing you from taking feats multiple times as you pass levels.

-I know you can't in pathfinder. However they have made other rule changes and its odd for them to leave a rule out.
-Many feats would offer no additional benefit, though some have choices and would.
-Some feats have a "Special" entry that specifies what happens if you do take it multiple times. Feels like that should be seen as a requirement, but it could just be them giving specific case instruction for multi selecting those feats?

Did I just miss the rule somewhere?

--------------------
Computers are and interesting example.

pg215 under "Control" it gives them a skill of 2.5*Tier(or 2.5*Level)

That lines up pretty close with a surprising amount of numbers. If that is the scaling the designers where going they got it everywhere but the player characters.

PC's get an initial boost of 3 for class skill and +whatever they have in their stat. Each level after they only get 1 potential point in ranks. And every 4ish levels they might get a +1 from a stat. There are small boosts like feats or certain class abilities (ie Envoy) but those are only occasional boosts and don't add up to 1 - 1.5 per level.

This means they start with a good chance of success, but nearly every level any scaling task (some skill tasks are still locked at specific numbers) becomes maybe 3-ish% harder not easier.
--------------------
Am I missing something?

Monster Examples:
Dead Suns 1-pg58 CR5 Garaggakal:
Skills:
-Acrobatics +16 (5Rank+5Dex+3class?=13?)
-Athletics +11 (5Rank+2Str+3class?=10?)
-Stealth +16 (5Rank+5Dex+3class?=13?)
-Survival +11 (5Rank+2Wis+3class?=10?)

Dead Suns 1-pg58 CR6 Rauzhant:
Skills:
-Acrobatics +18 (6Rank+2Dex+3class?=11?)
-Intimidate +13 (6Rank+0Cha+3class?=9?)
-Survival +13 (6Rank+0Wis+3class?=9?)

First Encounter-pg14 CR5 Sarcesian:
Skills:
-Acrobatics +17 (5Rank+5Dex+3class?=13?)
-Bluff +12 (5Rank+2Cha+3class?=10?)
-Computers +12 (5Rank+3Int+3class?=11?)
-Survival +12 (5Rank+0Wis+3class?=8?)
*Note they have Racial Traits instructions and include 0 skill bonuses

In fact the only monster examples that ever had any skills without invisible bonuses seem to be monsters CR1 and lower.
--------------------
There isn't much about NPCs in the Core Book:

pg389 says they should have similar skill to party
However
pg326 under "Crew Level" says 1 crew member will be Master at any given ship skill giving them Tier(CR)*1.5+9 (If I am reading "1-1/2 * the NPC's ranks" correctly). So at CR1 the opposing pilot has +10 pilot and at CR20 would have +39. Both numbers I don't think any player can possibly reach at the same level, much less a character not designed "just to be the pilot".

Only other info I can find is pg392 under "Skill DC's" says a challenging skill DC should be 15+1-1/2*CR or APL. When a character only gains 1rank a level how would a character keep up with that progression? A challenging CR20 skill check would be DC45. A Lv20 Player could have max20ranks +max9Stat(18start+6enhancment+4level), for a total bonus of +29...

There are a couple small bonuses from feats, race, or class but that means a character is required to max a single stat and ranks in the connected skill and look for other bonuses just to have a chance of keeping up with this games scaling difficulties. If you are not built focused on a given task you will fail at higher levels.

Oh and lastly starship actions have a 2*Tier scaling meaning the numbers get impossible even faster. Or you stop upgrading your ship so it's Tier stays low and the party can actually do combat actions...
--------------------
tldr: I think the designers expected more +skill magic items like pathfinder, but they removed most of them. They designed the monsters with and DC's with this in mind and it makes mid-high level play impossible due to faster scaling than level.

Yeah it is weird that a ships higher technology makes doing things harder. Normally I would just say some rules are for game balance and move on. However I also noticed a real rules problem with this system:

Starship scaling problems

So most task on a starship (ie piloting, engineering, etc) have a DC set as (DC= 15(sometimes 10) + 2 x your starship's tier). This seems to scale way faster than party skill.

Take a Pilot for example who is trying to 'Flip and Burn' (pg319). It requires a Piloting check (DC = 15 + 2 x your ship's tier).

A Lv1 Pilot will be in a Tier 1 ship so DC17. He will likely have 1Rank +3class skill bonus +4(Assuming 18Dex) = d20+8. Looks like he needs to roll 9 or better, good odds.

That same Pilot at Lv10 will be in a Tier 10 ship so DC35. He can have 10Ranks +3class skill bonus +6(Assuming 22Dex) = d20+19. Looks like he now needs to roll 16 or better, much worse odds. Even in same ship just higher level.

Now take the same Pilot at Lv20 in a Tier 20 ship so DC55. He can have 20Ranks +3class skill bonus +8(Assuming 26Dex) = d20+31. Looks like he now needs to roll 24(on a d20!), actually impossible...

There are a couple conditional things. A pilot could have a couple more small bonuses (ie the Pilot Theme (+1), Skill Focus (+3), Skill Synergy(+2), (random -2 to +2) from engines). However building a character in Starfinder with so many choices focused only on being able to give yourself a small chance of success seems punishing.

I think it was decided as a Computer Component has an ability to offer a +0 to +10 bonus (based on computer tier) on 1 or 2 actions per combat. However at low levels that means it offers a small bonus to a couple actions, makes sense. While at high levels the Starfinder party of 5(average size) must have a highest end computer and may only choose 1 or 2 actions between all of them (including minor actions) per combat round that have a chance of success.

I know that a few actions don't require rolls that scale like this but it really limits player choices when each of the Captain, Engineer(s), Gunner(s), Pilot, and Science Officers have to choose their actions based on wither they are the one to get to use the computer that round...

Am I missing something?

I may house-rule (both for game play and for immersion)
-Computers offer half the listed bonuses.
-Ship DC's instead add +1*Ship tier + 2*Size from Small (ie So a Tiny ship would be 0 DC, small would be 2, medium would be 4, large would be 6, etc.)

This way success relies more on a players roll and less on what bonuses you can add. While making sure investment above just increasing ranks actually improves a characters chances (ie between 2 max rank pilot's the higher the Dex determines the higher chance more than the higher computer.)