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Oh, arcsage is back. Can't believe I didn't notice the lack of punctuation sooner.

sorry i wrote it really fast on a mobile and had to edit multiple times

who is arcsage?

Sure. If I had to guess, I would say your assumption is correct.

But it's still better to actually state that plainly, so that any suggestions on sure to be on topic.

here is the backstory

a young boy who had a a family he loved lost that family

the young boy works hard to find a way to bring then back with a ritual of resurrection but he finds out their souls have already been judged and they went to hell become of some vague contract nonsense

the young boy curses the gods specially pharasma and decides that beings so lacking in morality and empathy should not have the right to judge anyone or hold any soul whatsoever

they boy swears he will get revenge on the gods and find a way of reversing that judgment

he then track the devil worshipers responsible for his family's death and kills them, them attempt a resurrection ritual each of the corpses trying to forcibly revive them but the ritual automatically fails resulting in the cultists becoming undead

the boy continually repeats the ritual on each body as they become undead until a raven appears close by and sicne he know nosoi take the appearance of raven he irremediably kills it

the rituals continue to fail until he decides to try it on the dead raven and get a critical failure and the "something worse" result takes place

the boy conjures a dark and ancient entity into the raven but instead of immediately killing him it responds to his FERVOR and form a pact with him

they boy is now a fervor witch hellbent on killing evildoers and using their bodies for his experiments so that one day he may free humanity from the tyranny of gods

so what is the problem? the problem is that i want to be a necromancer not a witch but everything i want is on the divine list

Which PF1 Classes Are The Most Difficult to Adapt to PF2?

necromancers i guess? at least is what i feel so far

i don't know if this has been said before but my main problem with wizards is that every time i take a look at the bard class features and feat list i just feel like i'm gimping myself by playing this class

i would like to hear the actual counterpoints if you don't mind

Why do we need to continue this cycle that has been unbroken since the playtest (not the secrets of magic playtest, the PF2e core playtest)? It's all been said already.

i would be very interested in listening and discussing your reasons why casters are great but if possible i wish we could stop the escalation here

guys can we please not derail the thread?

No one other than me wants tho?

i would love to have it, we kind of need something to counterbalance the aeons, inevitables and all other creatures who oppose time manipulation

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer

surprisingly this wizard thread seem to be reaching a consensus, but its a happy surprise

to be honest the reason i put the create undead ritual was just because narrative it bothered that necromancers couldn't create permanent undead, i really wasn't intending on using on battle but if ti feels underpowered because of dc and cost then what about this

undeath ritual master - create undead rituals of lower than your caster level cost nothing automatically succeed

if its too powerful i could make it only available after you get legendary proficiency or something similar

raise dead

the reason is so obvious i don't think its needs explanation

Thanks all for the answers. I read Leshy and it didn't quite "hit the spot" for me, but they're nice. They're just a bit too alien for me.

Being a "normal" Gnome that may live forever (and may not) also isn't the certainty that I have in mind, plus Gnomes in general are too hectic for me. I like peace and calm.

Guess I'll be doing a Timeless Body Monk for the moment and just wait and see if they'll make other options on other books. Thank you all again for your input.

you could go to the astral plane but you would age everything you didn't when you leave, maybe you could burlate the aging affect by petrifying yourself then leaving the astral plane and having someone turn you back afterwards or using the imprisonment ritual to lock yourself in a jar, whether or not that works will require a friendly gm

other than that a "unending youth" contract could do the job if you could trick or force a devil to give it to you without evil or drawbacks

the best we can hope is that secrets of magic will add a timeless feat to the wizard or sorcerer

Sporkedup wrote:

Temperans wrote:

The arcane spell list however is one of the smallest and lacks many of the signature spells from the wizard spell list.

Could you clarify? On a quick check, the arcane list is the largest by a decent margin...

He’s wrong. The arcane list is the biggest.

What is the smallest is the number of unique arcane spells, spells that no other traditions can access. But that’s a very different statement.

maybe he accidentally switched arcane and divine? since we were talking about necromancy he could also have been talking about spells of that school?

Arcane 242 spells

Occult 216 spells

Primal 172 spells

Divine 149 spells

for those who want to statistics on spell lists here is a link and another one but they may be outdated so take it with a gain of salt

I feel like the necromancer wizards as it is just doesn't work so i wanted to make a home brew class archetype

the wizard has around 3 main features

drain bonded item

arcane school (focus + extra spells)

arcane thesis

so i was thinking of doing this

trade the thesis for the following

spiritual magic - change your spells list to either occult or divine at character creation and adjust your spells accordingly

trade the bonded item and arcane school for the following

undead rites - you learn a version of the create undead ritual that works for any undead bellow your level and requires no secondary casters

so what do you think is it balanced?

How many necromancy spells really fit under the metaphysical tags of mental and material? That is the bind the necromancer really falls into, the new system of essences makes entire schools of magic feel like they belong in one tradition and not others. I don’t have a problem with that, but it does problematize having school based wizards.

i would say the lore implications are more worrisome, like why are so many liches wizards when they cant lock souls in gems much less their own phylacteries? maybe giving the necromancer thesis a different list like occult or divine like witch instead of the arcane? like a witch but with no patron, i will take a look at the homebrew forum

to be honest i was more concerned about spells like bind soul and possession, and its disappointing the only spell that can create permanent undead (ghoulish cravings)is not on the arcane list

all 3 are in the occult list and the bard can eventually learn from all lists so i guess the ideal necromancer is a bard now? better learn to sing

I don't think that would work out well. Wizards with such easy access to healing spells would come quite close to invalidating other classes' primary schtick. Even if that wasn't the case, such a broad ability would soon get WAY too powerful as new books released ever more necromancy spells.

do you really think so? i mean you can already gets a healing hex from the first lesson of life with a arcane witch and its not like healing is hard to get with the alchemy, medicine, wands etc... not that i would mind it costing extra feats if the option is there

Goblin Guard wrote:

Would giving the Witch Sorceror/Wizard level casting be an easy fix?

Or would that make the class too powerful in comparison, due to better focus spells.

That would make it pretty much a straight upgrade from the wizard which would be a bad idea.

wizards, alchemists and witches seem to be the most complained about so might as well just patch all 3 at once

i feel like necromancy got hit the hardest maybe a thesis allowing you to learn spells of the necromancy school from all 4 lists would fix it

I wonder if soul bound shell will make a comeback in secrets of magic and how would it interact with the spell substitution thesis?