PlanetOfRoses's page

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I *really* dislike the term "binder" since it suggests that your spirit is a servant or is otherwise subordinate rather than a peer.

I agree that it would be a bad name for the Animist for this reason - chock full of unfortunate implications. That said, there's nothing wrong with the idea of getting a different class later, with different mechanics, that was based around binding things, with perhaps a less straightforwardly friendly dynamic than the animist gets.

Admittedly, I probably still wouldn't call it "Binder". It's extra legal risk (however little) with effectively zero payoff. There's no win there.

It is a pretty awesome idea for a villain though. Especially if you introduce them as an antithesis to an Animist PC which just sounds like a really fun idea.

While a diplomacy or other charisma check might make more sense than the performance check, I wouldn't go with religion as these apparitions are very specifically NOT gods, and not figures of worship.

While they're not "gods" in the Western sense, apparitions are still very much figures of worship.

The animist is a class inspired by animistic religions such as Shinto and other stuff that i'm too dumb to know about. While thematically you can definitely spin it in other directions, the Animist is essentially a cleric, but for an animistic faith rather than a theistic one.

Teridax wrote:

siegfriedliner wrote:

Second making them a 3 slot prepared caster who can sacrafice spell slots of equal level to cast apparition spells (like the Cleric could do for cure spells in 1e) would make the tracking a little easier rather than having two different sets of spell slots.

I 100% support this. Not only would this make the Animist's spellcasting dramatically easier to grok, I feel it would also significantly benefit the class's flexibility: using the same slots for prepared and spontaneous spellcasting would give the Animist more agency over how much of one or the other type of spellcasting they want to use in a day, and make the class's hybrid casting stand out even more by being able to override prepared spells with spontaneous spells as the situation demands. It would allow the Animist to prepare much more niche spells under the assurance that they could always use those slots for spontaneous spells if the niche spells don't work out for the day, and as a consequence of this I think it would also make the class much more accessible and forgiving to newer players, despite the class's other aspects that make it more complex. It would allow the Animist to opt into the Flexible Spellcaster archetype, and could potentially also lead to a high-level feat that could let you cast both an apparition spell and a prepared spell at the same time with low-level slots. It just feels like switching to this implementation would benefit the Animist in so many ways.

I think it would be broken.

They would be able to prepare 3 spells per day (so 1 more than the current version) and cast a Repertoire spell as much as 3 times a day (so 2 more times than the current until level 10 when it will be only 1 time more).

Is the current version of the class so underpowered ?

I agree with this.

Personally I think the Animist's spellcasting should stay at it is. Not only is it thematic, it provides a mechanical novelty that helps it stand out from other casters.

I do not feel it would be balanced to get this at first level.

See Invisibility is a rank 2 spell and costs a slot and the invisible creatures are still concealed.

Its not a free See Invisibility spell at all times from 1st level though, its a sense that lets you detect haunts and two specific creature types.

Plus, Its still a sense, its not some sort of infallible auto-detect button.

The Spirit Walk feat turns it into a precise sense while you are searching or detecting magic.

While I didn't mention the Spirit Walk feat in the post, considering the problems I have with Apparition Sight I don't think its too hard to figure out that having to wait 8 levels and take a feat just for a class whose whole deal is interacting with spirits to be able to properly see said spirits is very much a part of the issue.

Or "you can notice" like with Spiritual Sense.

It is valid to point out that the flavor description of the ability is using the wrong word. I don't think that means that the sense needs to be precise.

It should be a precise sense for the same reason that Witches get extra familiar abilities or why the Inventor gets auto-scaling Crafting. Its a core part of their class's identity and thus obviously they should be better at it than say a Magus or a Wizard who put some feats into getting a familiar, or for the latter a Fighter who took crafting so he could repair his shield.

Likewise, the Animist's ability to perceive and interact with spirits should be better than other classes because that literally is their class identity. You're a bridge between the material and the immaterial, an advocate for the spirits, a vessel for their power. You should be better at this than some mook with a flute who picked a feat up at level 8.

It's pretty much equivalent to Spiritual Sense from Oracle. But 5 levels earlier and has more abilities.

Edit: again this seems to be another case of 'can do something similar, but it costs an additional action'. In this case, that action is Seek. You can sense the presence of a spirit with Apparition Sense, just like you can with Spiritual Sense, but to get its location the Animist has to use Seek to actively use their imprecise sense.

I think you're missing the problem???

My issue is that the mechanics of the ability are contradictory with the fantasy/idea/whatever you wanna call it of the ability being presented (the ability to see spirits). Since its an imprecise sense rather than a precise one you can't actually properly use it to detect spirits, since it can never become Observed with your Apparition Sight, only Hidden, even if you Seek for it. If you want to Observe it, you need a precise sense, and if you already have one then you can probably just use that and you don't need any wanky spirit perception in the first place.

Also I get the feeling that in most situations where theres spooky stuff for you to use your imprecise apparition sight on, the rest of the party can probably already tell that theres spooky stuff there already. Being able to sense the indirect location of a ghost isn't really that impressive when theres inanimate objects flying around everywhere like in a horror movie.

This is a minor complaint compared to most of what people have been talking about but I haven't seen anyone else talk about this before.

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APPARITION SENSE FEAT 1
You can see and interact with things others can’t. You have
apparition sight, an imprecise sense that allows you to
detect the presence of invisible or hidden spirits, haunts, and
undead within 30 feet of you.

Imprecise Senses
Hearing is an imprecise sense—it cannot detect the full range of detail that a precise sense can. You can usually sense a creature automatically with an imprecise sense, but it has the hidden condition instead of the observed condition. It might be undetected by you if it’s using Stealth or is in an environment that distorts the sense, such as a noisy room in the case of hearing. In those cases, you have to use the Seek basic action to detect the creature. At best, an imprecise sense can be used to make an undetected creature (or one you didn’t even know was there) merely hidden—it can’t make the creature observed.

Hidden
While you're hidden from a creature, that creature knows the space you're in but can't tell precisely where you are. You typically become hidden by using Stealth to Hide. When Seeking a creature using only imprecise senses, it remains hidden, rather than observed. A creature you're hidden from is flat-footed to you, and it must succeed at a DC 11 flat check when targeting you with an attack, spell, or other effect or it fails to affect you. Area effects aren't subject to this flat check.

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After a quick look at the rules, this reads to me less as "I see dead people..." and more "I can sense something spooky is nearby" which feels counterproductive to the idea of the ability being presented.

I think the ability should be changed to a precise sense rather than an imprecise one. While I can understand the restriction on other similiar abilities such as the Bard's Soulsight, I don't think its unreasonable that a class whose whole thing is their ability to perceive, communicate and bond with spiritual beings that are beyond regular peoples' perception shouldn't have any difficulties when it comes to perceiving said entities.