Pi Master's page

Why the wizard:

Fastest spell progression

Best spells

Spells tailored to the group/scenario

MOST spells in the game. I know this is supposed to go to the sorcerer, but between getting an extra spell level, your specialization spell (there's no reason to be a generalist), and possibly your bonded item spell you have more spells than the sorcerer and more importantly more higher level spells to do the really cool stuff.

I think you're missing the poster's point. Everything you just listed involves becoming more "powerful" rather than spreading the fun around to the group. I agree with the the poster. Gets lame with wizards if player doesn't put some brakes on the power progression for sake of cooperative play.

That's incorrect. Referencing excerpt from Favored Enemy:

"At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2."

The +2 increase applied to an existing favored enemy choice is applied as a function of selecting a new favored enemy.

I think you misunderstand the argument. I disagree with poster on 2 points: that a) you "reach" for physics/math based arguments to, b) become overpowered. If you're going to be overpowered, there're are plenty of ways to do it within the rules.

In reference to my objection (b): Your example uses a BBEG who can cast a 4th level spell, therefore implying that he is at least a 7th level-equivalent (i.e. ~7 CR) creature. This BBEG uses one of his highest level spells/effects to neutralize the mid-level fighter. The BBEG is expending two valuable resources in the economy of Pathfinder: 1) a limited spell/ability, and 2) a valuable standard action. If the fighter makes the save, the BBEG is going to get a foot in his butt come the next round.

With the small air elemental example, the BBEG doesn't use his own actions, and he doesn't expend his own spell/ability. The air elemental hovering next to him turns into a whirlwind, runs along 4-5 squares, vacuums up whichever of the party members fail the save, ascends at 1/2 speed (e.g. 40'), and drops them all for 4d6+slam. And that's only for 1 small elemental.

Yes it's called "magic" in the game, but this is a special form of magic called "munchkin math magic". Don't reach for weird mathy/physics type reasons to overpower your character. Just do it and have fun.

Yes, the whirlwind rule needs to be explained better given the confusion in the bestiaries. But that's true for a thousand other entries on monsters/feats/abilities/etc.

Yes i read the details of the storm kindler class and your proposal that an elemental turns into a whirlwind, and so doesn't change in size. Firstly, i thought both points were excellent. And your latter argument makes a good deal of sense. My main objection is to people using geometry calcs to advocate a game effect that is unbalancing. Then they use pseudo physics to prove that a little elemental should have the power to shut down powerful, high level foes.

Jacobs' word isn't errata gospel, but given that he backed it up with sound thinking, then his interpretation comes pretty darn close to definitive (ie, turning into whirlwind, unless specified, does not change "Size", as in,the capitalized, game mechanic property, not geometrical "size"). The once/round thing is fine, but that isn't what i was addressing. It is that 1 cr creatures can pick up a high level fighter, without danger of AoO, drop her from a 50', then when he hits the ground, another one does it again. That's crazy. But, i agree that whirlwind could've been written much more clearly by the devs.

I've been following all of the arguments about what actual defines the SIZE of the whirlwind, and therefore what size creature it can pick up. As others have commented, it makes no game-balance sense that a small air elemental can pick up a creature based on the dimensions of the whirlwind. That's ridiculously overpowered. And I'd be careful about making an argument the other way; a GM can have a BBEG cast a SNA IV and unleash a gang of small air elementals on a 10th level fighter with crappy Reflex saves, with Mr. Fighter being taken 50' up and dropped for 5d6 damage over and over.

Furthermore, James Jacobs has already ruled that the "size" of the whirlwind = size of elemental. Live with it, folks. I would love to have my 6th level druid be able to pick up a Large 8 CR non-flying demon and drop it for 5d6 damage, but it ain't gonna happen.