Phil Meyer's page

Hey guys!

One of my PCs is a human cavalier, and I am worried about how often the adventure takes the group underground or into various other tight places. The player has tailored their build for mounted combat with feats and such. I assured them at the time of character creation, perhaps foolishly, that I would make sure that there was enough outside combat that the choices wouldn't be waste.

At first, with the outside combat against the goblins, the cavalier was a complete badass. I think she killed 2/3 of the goblins or something silly like that, with her charging around with a lance. At least one of the PCs was pretty concerned that the build (and the mounted combat rules) were overpowered.

Since then we've had the Glassworks shenanigans and are crawling through the Caverns of Wrath. Looking ahead, the Thistletop stuff looks to again require that the horse stays behind. Then reading more and more head, I'm actually having trouble finding *any* opportunities to bring the mount back into things. I see a few places here and there, but for the most part the writers seem to love their indoor and underground encounters. Now off her horse the cavalier is still pretty darn powerful (power attack and 2hd weapon FTW), but at some point its going to start looking like a poor class choice.

So, I've got two options. (1) Apologize and allow the PC to do a complete respec or (2) Try and modify the campaign to introduce more outdoor adventures. I'd prefer doing the second, if feasible.

Since you guys are much more experienced with the campaign, I wanted to ask if there were any suggestions for outdoor encounters I could add. The first place I am thinking of is having a big outdoor battle on the way to Thistletop, just to give a taste before sending them into cramped spaces again. Perhaps a bugbear tribe on their way to join the goblins.

Are there other obvious spots that would make for natural outdoor encounters?

If anyone has played a cavalier or had one in their party as a DM, please let me know what worked (or didn't work) for you.

Thanks!
Phil

We have yet to return to Sandpoint, but I have the feeling that we'll be double-heroes.

If I was the DM, I'd have you come back to find that a secondary goblin raid occurred, and in your absence it did terrible damage to the town.

Just saying... ;)

Thanks. Why wouldn't it be the Animal Companion listing for horse that gets used? I was under the impression that the mount for a Cavlier would be taken from there, and not from the bestiary listing.

If its from the link you give, how does it level with the Cavalier like a Druid companion does?

Actually, cavaliers get a war-trained horse at level 1, which makes the horse's hooves into primary attacks.

I thought that was true, but couldn't find in the rules where that's said (that combat training would make them primary). Do you know off-hand where that is written?

Also, what does that mean for gameplay? Does the cavalier get to choose one of the attacks during a charge (or ride-by-attack) and then at full round the horse attacks with all three attacks at full attack bonus?

Edit: or could the horse do both of its hoof attacks during a charge?

Hey guys,

I'm a new DM for Pathfinder, and one of my players is a Cavalier whose mount is a horse. We're all fairly new to the system, so we're having a little trouble determining what the horse's attacks are, and how they work.

As best as we can tell (mostly as devised by our most experienced 3.5 player), the attacks would be:

Primary - Bite: +3, 1d4+3 damage.
Secondary - Hooves (2 attacks): -2, 1d6+1 damage.

This is at level 1. If you guys could please confirm or contradict this, that'd be great. I could lay out the rationale that got us to this determination if that'd help.

If this is correct, we're also typically working off this sort of sequence:

1) Player makes a Ride check to guide with knees (almost auto-succeed)
2) Player makes a Handle Animal check to order it to charge a monster
3) Horse charges to the target, but can only make its Primary bite attack
4) The player can then make an attack with their lance, which doesn't need to be the same creature the horse charged. This gets the +2 attack and double lance damage on a charge.

Is this correct?

Also, the secondary hoof attacks only come into play when the horse does a full round attack, right?

Thanks a bunch. You guys rock.

Warning: I will almost certainly have follow up questions :).

New question: why a paladin? if all you want is a longsword and heavy shield warrior, a fighter will do just as well, without the pesky need for a free hand.

Well all the fluff of a Paladin I'm digging. The initial concept is "Paladin with Longsword and Heavy Shield". It seems to accomplish this concept some are suggesting ditching the heavy shield, some ditching the sword, and now perhaps ditching the paladin part. I guess I had a pretty good idea this was the case, but its awfully disappointing.

I suppose a Fighter with a few levels in Cleric or something could accomplish a near-Paladin in feel, would have to take a peek. Probably you're right though, could just ask the DM. I bet lots would go for it, though I feel a bit dirty asking for special rule exceptions.

I do appreciate all the opinions expressed here.

But who says you need a sword?

Well, the longsword is part of the concept. It's my favorite classic fantasy archetype. You can find dozens of minis and images on the web with warriors with a longsword and heavy shield, so I don't think I am alone in it appealing to me.

And most 4E paladins employ a heavy shield, so its not like this is an impossible thing to incorporate into a system.

Thanks guys. I didn't realize the difficulty a heavy shield adds to the LoH ability. I'm really annoyed that this is such an awkward build for Pathfinder. It seems to me that it should practically be the default :(.

Will have to think it over, probably means I just won't end up playing a Paladin outside of 4E.

So I've been wanting to play a Paladin, and Pathfinder is my current system of choice. I've dabbled with 4E paladin's, and there its quite easy (and optimal) to use a longsword and heavy shield. In Pathfinder it seems that a two hander (falchion or greatsword) is a good choice for a standard melee build, and that your best bet for using a shield is to go the two weapon fighting route with a lot of shield bashing.

At first this sounded great to me. Best of both worlds, lots of damage and defense. But then when I got into the meat of building one, I realized that to do this you need to use a light shield with a spike on it for it to be any good, since heavy shields makes your attack bonus stink. To me this loses the iconic feel of the S&B paladin. I see myself with a big steel shield. Also the huge DEX and feat investments are painful to get into a build.

Does anyone have any optimization tips for a Paladin who uses a Longsword and Heavy Shield in Pathfinder?

I'm thinking of going Sacred Shield archetype if that's any good, but I'm afraid that'd still probably be best with a light shield user that bashes people with it.

Thanks!

Thanks Drejk and Ossian. I'm convinced anyway :).

@Mort: Thanks! That's exactly the sort of feedback I was looking for.

@Shadowcat: I believe the alternative racial feature for half elf (ancestral weapon that replaces adaptability) explicitly states that you can select an exotic weapon. Doesn't that bypass the BAB pre-req?

If I can't get an Elven Curve Blade, then that'd probably put a crimp in my plans for going Weapon Finesse. So yeah, I guess I should consider going strength in that case.

As for the Ninja and strength suggestions, I'll have to consider those. Probably when I get home from work and have my resources to check.

So for my first Pathfinder game (will be play-by-post) I wanted to go with an Elven Rogue. However, I couldn't seem to get a viable build at level 1 with two weapon fighting. My attack bonus without weapon finesse would be a whopping -1/-1. If I don't take TWF at level 1, I wouldn't be able to get it until level 3. In a PBP game, I could be level 1 for a very long time.

I don't want to go archery, because I'm also starting a PBP game with an Archer Ranger.

Someone in my game suggested going Half-Elf, and taking the alternative racial feature to get an Elven Curved Blade, which is finesse-able. So at level 1 I don't have two attacks, but I get a nice 1d10 weapon. Is this an okay trade-off? Fluff wise I'm loving this idea.

If I do go this route, any advice? As a half-elf I get to pick a second favored class. Maybe fighter?

Thanks in advance guys. In a way I love learning a new system, but as a noob I'm afraid of making bad build choices.