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So the ghost has to use its level 5 ability in order to use its level 1 ability effectively? And if he chooses to use his level 5 ability to sneak into an area before combat he'll be useless in combat?

I'll restate my earlier point: Are you going to disallow survival in an open field (or indoors) because you can't "use your surroundings"? Are you going to disallow bluff and intimidate against mindless monsters because they don't think? Are you going to make the operative physically use a computer since you can't hack at range unless you're a mechanic? Is sleight of hand useless against enemies that don't have vision? How many restrictions are you going to put on an operative's class defining ability?

If your guys' interpretation were correct then the only logical conclusion would to play the daredevil specialization 100% of the time.


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Andy Brown wrote:

So you have one reading for one skill that stops the trick attack being possible, and one reading for that skill that allows the trick attack to happen like every other skill and like the game's designers say should happen.

I think from those possibilities it's clear that it should be possible to use stealth to perform a trick attack if you're observed.

I strongly agree with this. Trick attack lets you make a check using your bonus to either bluff, intimidate, stealth, athletics, sense motive, survival, computers, or sleight of hand depending on your specialization.

Rules lawyering this so that stealth can't be used anytime in combat and every other mode can doesn't make sense. This isn't contract law and I don't understand why you are trying so hard to disqualify stealth. Operatives need trick attack to stay relevant in combat. Solarians and Soldiers crush them. Every other class with longarms would crush them if they couldn't consistently trick attack in combat until maybe when they get triple attack.

Are you going to disallow survival in an open field because you can't "use your surroundings"? Are you going to disallow bluff and intimidate against mindless monsters because they don't think? Are you going to make the operative physically use a computer since you can't hack at range unless you're a mechanic? Is sleight of hand useless against enemies that don't have vision? How deep does this rabbit hole go?

If I was playing with a GM that insisted on all these restrictions I'd just go daredevil and always use acrobatics which I can't think of any reasonable way to disallow use of. All of these modes always work and you should use whichever suits your character's theme the most.


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I took a closer look at the book and there are a few interesting abilities you can get from the summons that aren't the basic elemental/summoning grafts:

Level 2
Security Robot: 2 Stickybomb Grenades (Entangle DC 10)

Level 3
Crest-eater: every attack drains one Con DC 13
Haan: Balloon attack, raises enemy into the air 30 ft each round, DC 14. Firespray 30 ft cone 3d6 DC 14 half

Level 4
Mountain Eel: Paralyze 1 round DC 14. Trample 1d8+11 DC 16
Orocoran: Projectile Vomit +16 1d10+6 plus confusion 1d4 rounds DC 16. Constant see invisibility. Augury (but can't use due to reserve point rule)

Level 5
Surnoch: Acid Jet +18 3d6+9 Line 60ft. Also has constrict style grab damage but its attack doesn't grab so not sure how useful that would be.

All six levels
Air Elemental: Whirlwind (can suck people in and do damage to them and cause them to be grappled, off-target, and flat-footed). Sidenote, anyone know how to calculate the DC for whirlwind? I don't see it listed anywhere for air elementals.
Water Elemental: Vortex (same as whirlwind) but in the water so not as useful.

The most exciting option to me is the Orocoran. It's no Bralani Azata but confusing a bunch of enemies seems fun.


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They mystic star shaman on page 91 looks better than the Ysoki art in their racial entry on page 54 in my opinion. They apparently evolved on multiple planets so you could customize the appearance a bit if your group is okay with it.


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This Google Sheets Character Sheet is the best one I've found for an HTML style one. The guy that made it makes fixes quickly if you post in the reddit thread with any bugs you find.


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I think you can take 20 on treat deadly wounds. There are two other actions for medicine (First Aid and Long Term Care) that specifically say you cannot take 20 on those checks. The rest of the medicine actions don't have that language. This is pretty consistent throughout the whole skills chapter.


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After taking everything into consideration I think I'll make my first operative like this:

Race: Ysoki
Class: Operative (Ghost)
Theme: Themeless (Str and Mysticism)
Stats: Str 9, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Initiative: 5
Health and Resolve: SP 6, HP 8, RP 5
Armor: 15 EAC, 16 KAC
Saves: Fortitude 2, Reflex 6, Will 2
Feats: Great Fortitude
Skills: Acrobatics (11) and Stealth (13) from specialization. Other 11 ranks in: Athletics (4), Bluff (5), Computers (8), Engineering (10), Medicine (8), Mysticism (5), Perception (5), Piloting (9), Sense Motive (5), Sleight of Hand (9), Survival (7).
Gear: Azimuth Laser Pistol, Second Skin, Industrial Backpack, Battery, Personal Comm Unit, Mk1 Healing Serum, Everyday Clothing, Tool Kit (Disguise), Tool Kit (Engineering), Tool Kit (Hacking), Tool Kit (Navigator's), Tool Kit (Trapsmith), Basic Medkit, Titanium Alloy Cable (50 ft), Starstone Compass, Credstick with 29 credits. (2 bulk)


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Assuming 28 Dex (18 start, boosted every 5 levels, mk3 enhancer) and using the highest average damage weapons in the core rulebook.

Operative:
Gyrojet pistol, elite 715,800
+26 to hit, 4 attacks at +22 (or +23 if you can afford two of these pistols and multi-weapon fighting)
5d12+10 = 42.5 average = 170 damage if all 4 hit
OR
5d12+10+10d8 = 87.5 trick attack (plus debilitions)

Soldier:
Seeker rifle, paragon 809,200
+30 to hit, 3 attacks at +25
12d8+20+6+2d6 = 87 average = 261 damage if all 3 hit
(Bullet Barrage +6 damage, Sharpshoot Focus Fire +1 to hit, Sharpshoot Focused Damage +2d6)

Solarian:
Seeker rifle, paragon 809,200
+30 to hit, 3 attacks at +24
12d8+20+4 = 77 average = 231 if all 3 hit
(Photon Mode +4 damage)

Ultimate DPR ranking would be Solarian (melee avg 315 / ranged avg 231), Soldier (melee avg 297 / ranged avg 261), Operative (ranged avg 170 / melee avg 168) (or trick attack for 87.5 ranged / 87 melee)

I'm really curious if I messed up any math or missed any bonuses. In any case it looks like Operative gets out damaged by the two full base attack bonus classes due to the worse weapons and half level specialization bonus to damage. If they had full weapon specialization damage they would average 210 which is still below the other two. Wonder if that will ever be revisited. If these numbers are right we can safely dump STR on the Operative which will increase either Con for Fort save or Cha for skills.


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Hello everyone, I'm planning on playing an operative in our first campaign and like to get the most out of characters I play. I plan to max Dex and keep Int and Str competitive to be able to melee and fulfill the skill monkey role.

I'd like to know what people think about this build and if I should change anything. I'm open to all improvement suggestions.

Race: Android (Darkvision, Dex/Int, doesn't breathe, easier bluff, upgrade slot, and dump Cha). Biggest competition would be Ysoki for the cheek pouch swift action, stand up swift action, +5 tumble, and +2 to Engineering, Stealth, and Survival. Open to thoughts on these races or if there is another one I'm not considering.

Theme: Ace Pilot. None of the themes seem amazing for optimization. Bounty Hunter and Outlaw also have interesting options. Open to suggestions here.

Stats: Str 13, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8. Max dex for hit chance on all weapons, int for skill points, str for melee damage and grenade hit chance.

Specialization: Ghost. Skills Acrobatics and Stealth. +4 Stealth for trick attack (RAW). Cloaking field at level 5. This seems objectively the best but again open to opinions.

Skills: Acrobatics and Stealth from specialization. Other 10 ranks in: Athletics, Bluff, Computers, Engineering, Medicine, Perception, Piloting, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Surival. I considered switching Medicine for Mysitism to be able to deal with magical devices but I'd only have a mod of 2 which doesn't seem great. Could go priest theme to get Mysticism as a class skill...

Feat: Weapon Focus (Small Arms). I think ranged will be ideal at first. Later can pick up Versatile Focus to buff operative weapons and sniper rifles.

Gear: Second Skin, Tactical Semi-Auto Pistol (30 ft, 1d6), Tactical Baton. The small arm could also be the Azimuth Laser Pistol for the much better range of 80 but 1d4 damage dice. Curious what others think between these two starting weapons. Other gear like engineering toolkit, other toolkits, healing serum, etc.