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I love playing blaster mages, and I disagree with the common sentiment that they're sub-optimal. But I often play solo when I play a wizard and I don't have anyone there to kill my controlled mobs for me. I have to do it myself. This may skew my perspective. So how would you go about building a solo wizard that isn't a blaster? What tactics would you use? Please, no comments to the effect "don't" or "play X instead".
How the craft skill makes sense – some simple economics: First we need to make a few assumptions and definitions. The cost (C) of an item is equal to the value of the raw materials (M) plus the time(T) required to turn those materials into a finished good. (C=M+T) The cost of time has a minimum value of what someone needs to survive. Example: the cost of food and lodging. Any lesser value would be an unsustainable loss and make the production of an item unprofitable. The craftsman would actually be losing money. Therefore, a market price less than this amount is an unlikely exception to the rule above. Market value equals the cost to produce an item plus a reasonable profit. This creates a flexible range of market value with a minimum of cost (C) and a variable maximum which depends on the availability of substitutes and similar items at a lower price. Let’s assume an average markup of 50%. This is called the equilibrium point (EP). For similar items, the market value will be similar. Skill ranges will vary, but the cost (C) is set by a minimally skilled craftsman’s average results (unless a guild fixes the price, but that’s another exception to the basic economics). A more skilled craftsman can produce finished goods faster, which earns him additional leisure time, or he can produce a superior item which earns him a premium on his product, or he can produce more items within that time, which floods the market and reduces the market value. This is not generally in the skilled craftsman’s interest. The skilled craftsman can afford to sell items below market value because he has a lower cost of production, but a minimally skilled individual or do-it-yourselfer can produce the item for their own use so this still creates a floor on the market value equal to the cost of materials and cost of time. So an item with a cost of 10 gold pieces to produce will have an average market value of 15 gold pieces. If the buyer and seller choose to haggle the seller will not go below 10 gold pieces because he would take a loss. The buyer is unlikely to go above 20 gold pieces because he can probably find the item cheaper elsewhere. This is a simplified overview of economics. Pathfinder’s original crafting rules have four flaws. First, they are complex. Second, they don’t differentiate between cost and market value. If an item is rare, and therefore valuable, the rules say it takes longer to produce even if it’s a simple item. Third, progress on complex items is faster than on simple items because the minimum DC is multiplied by the skill roll. Masterwork simple items (DC 20) are produced twice as fast as regular simple items (DC 10). The higher cost offsets this, but it’s still a logical inconsistency. The option to add 10 to the DC to work faster helps with this inconsistency, but the result is still exponential results from linear difficulty. Fourth is the assumption that the raw materials will cost 1/3 market price. To illustrate this flaw compare a detailed wooden sculpture to a simple gold rod. Both could have a market value of 50 gold pieces. The value of the rod is in its raw material while the value of the sculpture is in the time and skill used to develop it. The 1/3 rule is nonsense. Pathfinder unchained released a simplified crafting rule set. These reduce the math involved and suggest a ¼ raw materials cost but they still include the second and third flaws above. The solution: Use the rules from Pathfinder Unchained, with the following changes: The raw material costs equal the actual value of the materials used. E.g. The cost of raw materials for 1 pound gold rod equals 50 gold pieces, the value of 1 pound of gold. The value of our 1 pound wooden sculpture equals a value of 1 pound of wood. The core rules list 20 pounds of firewood for one copper peace. This puts the raw materials cost for our sculpture at 1/20h of a copper piece, essentially free. Set the cost of an item equal to 2/3 of its market value. The item is complete when the progress equals the cost. This value assumes the actual cost of time and materials to be a bit less than the market’s profit margin. Let’s see how this works out. A craftsman with basic tools (no bonus), 1 rank in craft as a class skill (+1 and +3), and a +1 intelligence modifier can take 10 and get a 15 (2gp of progress / day). This means he can produce a basic longsword. He could roll and work faster, but he might make a mistake and mess it up, so he’ll just take 10. The market value on a longsword is 15gp, so the cost is 10gp. Raw materials per core book are 4 pounds of iron or steel, and maybe a negligible amount of wood or leather for the grip. There’s lots of ways to make a sword so let’s not get bogged down in details of this or that sword. The core rules don’t list steel on the trade goods list but a little research suggests it’s about 3 times the cost of iron. With iron at 1sp per pound, that’s 1gp and 2 sp for 4 pounds of steel. This means he has to make 8 gp and 8 sp worth of progress on craft checks. By taking 10 he’ll spend 5 days working on this sword. It could have gone faster, but he’s minimally skilled, after all. Let’s look at his buddy, who was born and raised in a smithing family. He’ll start with the same build, but he inherited masterwork tools (+2) and has skill focus in craft (weapons) (+3). He can take 10 and get 20, making a similar sword in two and a half days. He can make a second sword in the same amount of time. Now I come along looking to buy a sword. I see three swords, all of similar quality. I don’t care which one I buy, but I only need one. No matter who I buy from, the market has more swords than I need. I buy my sword and leave and these two craftsmen are left with 2 swords between them. The higher skilled smith could have spent their time better by making other items or doing something else to improve quality of life. Maybe he networks, maybe he advertises. Meanwhile, there are likely to be many more low skilled craftsmen than high skilled craftsman, so the balance of weapons shifts back toward the inefficient craftsmen. This is another reason why the minimally skilled craftsman sets the prices. This leaves only one problem. The above example suggests that the living expenses for the minimally competent craftsman are 2 gold pieces per day. The core book says a common inn and good meals comes to 1 gold piece per day, so the cost of time for 5 days is only 5 gp, making the total cost of a longsword 5gp for labor, and 1.2 gp for the steel. So we either have a problem with the cost of the sword, or the cost of upkeep. The real problem is that Pathfinder and 3.5 operate under the “Hero Economy” instead of a real, functioning economy. That is, things heroes don’t worry about, like food, land value and the cost of raising livestock, are minimized while things that give them combat advantages, like ranged weapons are maximized. In what logical world is a longbow made of wood and cord more expensive than a sword which was dug from the ground, melted out of the rock, then hammered into shape? Grain Into Gold (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/13113/Grain-Into-Gold?it=1) is an excellent supplement for revising your game’s economy. As the author says, “an economy really starts with the cost of food and builds up from there…” This supplement lists many common prices in the back of the book and I’ve added many items for my own game. I adjusted the prices to a gold piece standard in my own games and added all the core items to my personal list. Still, I don’t want to take any credit away from the original author or risk copyright infringement, so let me just use a few of the prices I’ve come up with. More realistic prices I’ve calculated, adjusting for inflation (See footnotes):
Now our barely competent smith spends 1.2 gp for steel. He works at a rate of 2 gp per day for 11 days, incurring food costs of 33gp. His total cost of production is 34.2 gp, which is just barely met by the market value of the weapon he crafted. He has a profit of 9 sp and 6 cp. Our skilled smith works twice as quickly, incurring living costs of 16.5 gp in addition to the 1.2gp worth of steel. His total cost is 17.7 gp and, as above, he has options with his extra time. He can afford to sell the weapon more cheaply at risk of devaluing the items, or he can instead upgrade his quality of life with his comparative savings, etc. Even if you don't adjust prices for a sensible economy, crafting can be fixed by using the actual material cost and charging a daily upkeep fee appropriate to your market. Crafting isn't heroic, but it is modestly profitable. That's why NPCs do it. Notes:
-My research has shown that, at least at some points, the historical exchange of gold silver and copper were 10-1, so the existing coinage system works fine. -Compared to historical values, the Core Rulebook price of bread and other staples is inflated by about 10 times. Gold piece standard is fine here or you can rule that this is the real effect of adventurers dumping wealth on communities.
Calling fellow GMs. My group got in over their heads and I'm a bit stymied to avoid a TPK. At the top of a shaft they were badly outnumbered, and the party leader was blinded by a cleric. Another of the party, seeing that they were going to lose, grabbed the leader and jumped down the shaft with him. I had her roll dexterity, and she managed to cushion the blind fighter/wizard's fall. She died and he lived, the rest of the party wiped at the top of the shaft. Alone and blind at the bottom of the shaft, he hears approaching undead. He animates his fallen comrade as a skeleton to defend him.... And we're out of time this week! Any thoughts on how I can prevent this last character from dying without breaking immersion?
Some thoughts on controlling a primary caster's power: I love playing wizards and I love the power they bring to the table, but it can hit a point where an encounter amounts to nothing more than "I win initiative, I check off this spell, they're all dead even on a save. What's the loot?" I design nice blasters. I feel like magic should be an incredibly powerful tool, but not one that you can use all day without resting. For that matter, the 8 hour rest / spells per day seems arbitrary too. That's another idea I'll add at the end. I was thinking of having spells draw on a pool of points based on their spells per day, after which they could draw on a caster's hit points. Hit points cannot be used if the caster has enough spell points to cast the spell. (This would thematically work better on a Wound point / Vitality point system, but that's another discussion.) This limits the spells available at any time, but allows rest and healing to restore spells during a fight or between fights. Spells cost (spell level + caster level) points to cast.
A spell caster gets a pool of spell points equal to (spells per day x spell level) For example, a 4th level wizard has (4x0)+(3x1)+(2x2) = 7 spell points. Calculate the bonus spells from the casting stat the same way. This can be used for 7 Burning Hands (cl 1), or 2 Scorching Rays (cl 3) and one Detect Magic, or 1 Burning Hands (cl 5) and Disrupt Undead, or whatever combination the caster chooses. After these points are depleted, Hit points (or vitality points) can be spent in the same way. A tweak is needed: Prepared casters get a slight boost here. They can prepare a number of spells equal to the usual spells per day limit, but the spells are not expended on use (similar to the Arcanist). Spontaneous casters can already cast any spell they know. Changing prepared spells and restoring the spell point pool still happen once per day. Effects and consequences: All casters are more versatile, but spontaneous casters still get more points per day. Spellcasters may choose to cast at a lower caster level to save power against weaker enemies (fewer damage dice, shorter durations). Spells with a damage cap can be cast for maximum effect without wasting points. Caster level bonuses are now a resource with a cost. (Sure, I can cast a 9D fireball at level 5, but do I want to? It makes me tired!) Healing in combat can now be a desirable strategy to empower the casters. Casters have more reason to avoid melee, and melee have more motivation to protect them. Mages who blow through their whole arsenal aren't necessarily out for the rest of the day. They can heal up to get some spells back, though not full power as if they rested. Healers can renew their own spells, but since this is usually divine, why not? God likes 'em. That covers the basics. I haven't playtested this yet, but what do you think? ADDENDUM: Just spitballing on this one, but 1/day powers and 3+(stat mod) / day powers. What if they cost a percentage of hit points (or vitality) points as well? Then you would want to rest or heal before using it again, but it's not necessarily once per day.
I'm running a kingmaker campaign using ultimate campaign and ultimate rulership. I've also added Hargulka's Monster kingdom and Venture capital, from these forums, and I've included a few side dungeons to add extra xp. My players have begun to use exploration edicts to uncover new terrain, and I'm wondering how other GMs have handled the various keyed encounters. It's well enough for the exploration team to make it back and report on notable locations in the eastern Kamelands. Spoiler:
Such as the Lonely Barrow, marked on the map but not explored But what about Spoiler:
Narthropple expedition, Delicate Situation, and Grove of Tiressia It's well enough to say the exploration edict ran into something it couldn't handle. After all, with Hargulka's kingdom it's unlikely the current team would return. The problem is that one of my more clever players is using his followers from leadership to make an expert team of explorers, and they'll have a much better time of making it back alive. I'm thinking the best thing for those encounters in the second spoiler is to keep them as events for when the player characters are travelling and drop them on them at that time. I definitely want to keep them because they're important to the campaign's theme. If I just handwave or omit those, assuming the explorers took care of it, the players miss story details. How have other GMs handled this?
This is something I typed up to codify some house rules my group uses. I'm interested in feedback and opinions. Pathfinder gives heroes a great deal of power, placing them well above the common man from first level. Essentially, the approach is that heroes are born stronger, richer, and better than others. Many players enjoy the lower levels of play far more than the higher levels, and several analyses have demonstrated that the heroes of pulp fantasy such as Conan the Barbarian and Aragorn of Lord of the Rings may have been only 5th level heroes for all the power they demonstrate.
At first level, a character begins as a Commoner 1 or Aristocrat 1 with two traits. Each stat is rolled in order with 3D6. If the player chooses to begin as an aristocrat, one of the traits he selects must be related to aristocracy such as Noble Scion, Inheritance, etc.
At 7th level they may begin retraining into heroic classes. At the first heroic level a character gains +1 to 4 stats of their choosing and is eligible to also retrain one trait. Aristocrats may not retrain their related trait. At second level they gain an additional +1 to 5 stats of their choosing and may retrain their second trait. The bonus to stats represents the difference between the standard array and the elite array. An example progression follows. Commoner 1: Average Joe
From this point forward, the character may level up automatically in any NPC class (Aristocrat only if they began as an Aristocrat or if they have earned an appropriate title) and later retrain into a heroic class, or they may level up in a heroic class if they have a trainer. They may choose to postpone leveling up until a heroic trainer is available, but if they gain enough experience to level up twice, they will automatically level up in the NPC class which most resembles their primary class. The reasoning here is that advanced techniques require advanced training, but experience does make you better, even in the absence of such training. Using this system means that more time will be spent facing low level challenges. The search for heroic trainers can become a quest objective and adventure hook. Advancement can take many different paths, some by way of wealth and some by way of experience, meaning that wealth has more meaning in the game. Characters have a chance to establish themselves before taking on a heroic class, leading to better role play and a more natural fit of abilities when the heroic class is chosen. Finally, heroes aren’t born naturally better than others, but they get there by virtue of taking risks, and using their wealth and experience wisely. The flat 3D6 to stats results in an overall lower powered game throughout a character’s career despite the bonuses gained when taking the first two heroic levels, and assigning stats straight down the line at creation means that a character may struggle to achieve the pinnacle of his aspirations, such as a would-be wizard with a 12 intelligence at creation. He will have to put his stat bonuses toward intelligence as he levels, and may rely more heavily on a headband of intelligence later in his career. Having to overcome such weaknesses adds character to characters, making them more well-rounded and naturally preventing min/maxing.
I'm involved in a P6 Kingmaker game with a few other house rules. Any character who holds a kingdom role in this game gets leadership for free, regardless of prerequisite, but the scores are calculated as normal. Since it's P6, low level followers can be very valuable, but I'm having trouble filling my roster. My character is a level 2 Kensai Magus with a leadership score of 13, so I get 10 1st level followers and 1 2nd level follower. The DM prefers NPC classes with the standard array for followers, with only rare exceptions. Does anyone have ideas on how to optimize some of these followers? Here's my ideas so far: Subsidiary adventuring party to handle low level side quests
Several craftsmen to produce useful items and masterworks for later enchanting
Herbalist/Healer Scribe/Lawyer Scholar Valet Ideas for other roles as well as suggestions on builds are welcome.
My Pathfinder group is looking for a few more players for a regular Sunday game. We play weekly on Sundays from 10 am through evening, and I host the game at my house.
Hello, all. I've seen a lot of discussion on adaptations of multi-classing in order to capture the old first and second edition feel, but none of it quite suited me. I'd like some feedback on what I've come up with.
You move to the slow xp progression, or to medium if your group was using the fast progression. This will mean that you no longer have the experience necessary to maintain your level, but that’s fine. You will have an experience “Debt” to pay off. This can be avoided by saving up your xp instead of leveling. You must now earn enough experience to equal your level on the new experience track, as well as an amount equal to gain level 2 in order to gain level one in your new class. On the slow track, this is 3000 xp. At that point you will be level one in your new class with a class xp total of 0. This represents the training time to pick up a new skill set, and helps to offset the usually front loaded benefits of a new class. From this point forward, you will take a penalty on future experience gains equal to the number of additional classes. For example, if you have 2 classes you take a 10% penalty, 20% for 3 and 30% for four, etc. Each class progresses along the new experience track independent of the other class’s experience total, and all benefits stack as per the core multiclass rules, except that only your highest class level qualifies for odd level feats and stat increases. You may allocate your experience freely to any of your classes, but your favored class bonus still applies only to your favored class. The same amount of experience can be leveraged by taking multiple classes in order to gain a higher overall level, but there is a minor loss (3000xp) for each additional class, as well as the lack of higher class level abilities, ability score increases, and bonus feats, so this isn’t as optimal. Also, there is a diminishing return on total class levels with 8 or more classes. Prestige classes count as any other class for this purpose, and prerequisites must still be met. The chart below assumes medium track for the party, and moving to the slow chart for multiclassing. It also applies the penalty from level one on the assumption that the character always had the given number of classes. This means that multiclassing later in your career will have reduced penalties as reflected on the chart, but have a higher up-front xp debt. The experience necessary to achieve level 20 on the medium track is modified for the X% xp penalty and the 3000 xp per class cost. See the chart for examples. |Classes||XP Penalty||XP split evenly||Class Level||Total levels|
Example: A new character starts as a level 1 fighter. He saves his xp, trying to learn cleric skills, so when his party hits level 2, he has 2000xp and takes a level of cleric. He is now a Fighter 1 / Cleric 1 with 0 / 0 xp. He moves to the slow track for both classes and must gain 3000xp in each to advance them. His party now has 2000xp and are level 2. The party gains another 3300xp, putting them at 5300 total and 3rd level each. Our multiclass Fighter 1 / Cleric 1 advances to Fighter 2 / Cleric 1 with experience of 3000xp / 0 xp. It seems that he’s caught up, but the rest of the party has gained the 3rd level feat and class abilities, while he hasn’t. This difference will continue to grow as he takes his penalty and splits his experience on the slow track. He has more diverse skills but is still limited by his highest class level and limited action economy. If he wants to take a 3rd class, let's say rogue, it will cost him 3000xp to gain it at level one and 0xp, and from that point onward he will take a 20% penalty on xp gains. He is now a Fighter 2 / Cleric 1 / Rogue 1 with XP of 3000/0/0. His party has 8600xp each and are nearing 4th level and a stat increase, while he has 4 class levels but a character level of 2 and must take a 20% penalty on future xp gains on the slow track. ---------------------------------------------------------------
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