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GM Advice: Dealing with Broken Character / Jerk Player
2 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:

Do not try to kill his character or otherwise solve things in-game - that will only cause bad blood, and his next character will be even worse. He's making trouble, arguing with you, and blatantly meta-gaming. This is offense after offense, and it sounds like you've repeatedly spoken with him about it to no avail.

There's only one answer. I'm sorry, but it's true. He has to go.

Not the solution I wanted, but I reluctantly agree.

GM Advice: Dealing with Broken Character / Jerk Player
1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am a newer GM running Wrath of the Righteous with our group and I have encountered a bit of a situation with one of my players.

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About our group/game:
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We have a larger game, 6-7 players depending on who can show up that week. We play a pretty casual game without 3rd party content but with a few home-brew rules that we have made to fit our group, nothing huge just minor tweaks. The group I am playing with is mostly just close friends with one exception, he is a guy that we just play D&D with but isn't really a member of the group of friends.

We decided at the start of the game that, being a mythic campaign, it was going to be a high powered adventure, so we would have a little fun with it. I let the players have a really high point buy with stats (27 points) and ruled that all of pathfinder, aside from the hybrid and occult classes, was open to them. Our group has agreed that the potential for abuse with the hybrid classes is too much and that occult just doesn't work well with the campaign. I have, with the help of a buddy who is a much more experienced GM, been able to balance the challenges of the fights to match the huge numbers and wide spread abilities of the group and to continue to challenge them while allowing the game to be fun and enjoyable for all.

The party is level 7, almost 8, and has 2 sorcerers, an inquisitor, a barbarian, a paladin, a ranger, and a spell slinger wizard/cleric/mystic thurge. For the sake of allowing my players to enjoy their characters and have fun with the mythic system and the story, I have allowed my players to pretty much do anything they want to do within the pathfinder system. I haven't been closely monitoring or managing their characters. The mythic system, along with the high point buy, has made all the characters power houses that are equipped for just about anything I throw at them, I have been raising the CR or changing the circumstances of the fights to allow for them to still be challenged, and we have been trying to lean hard on the RP of the game. As this is a group of friends this has worked fine as the group has been just trying to see through their character concepts and not trying to abuse the system, with one exception...

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The Problem Child:
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The player that is playing the Paladin is an experienced and notorious power gamer. He is in the group as more of a friend of a friend, but unfortunately we are in a situation that if we cut him from the group we will also lose one of the sorcerers, someone who we have all agreed we would like to keep. For this reason removing him from the game is a very last resort. This player has gone out of his way to take advantage of my leaniant GM'ing style and has created a monster character among monster characters.

I have spoken with him about this and he challenges me on every ruling I have made and accuses me of trying to target him. I have explained my reasoning, and he argues with almost every point and brings up examples of what I have allowed of the other players (which they have NOT attempted to abuse as he has) and then acts sarcastic during the game.

The player has also read through the adventure path books and uses that knowledge to meta-game at critical points that are supposed to challenge the group, but otherwise largely stays out of the RP. He has made some VERY questionable actions in game when he has RPed that conflict with the paladin code and being lawful good. For example, there was the time that he allowed a helpless prisoner to be executed without a trial and without a real chance to defend herself or her actions, with only circumstantial evidence (and heaps of meta-game knowledge) that she was in fact the culprit that they were looking for. I have began imposing penalties on him for this behavior and have been met met huge resistance.

The player also insists that he did not try to break his character, and when I try to argue otherwise he threatens "I can show you min-maxing, this isn't it".

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The Monster Among Monsters:
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The rest of the party has a total stat modifier of 11 or 12, aside from one player who currently has a stat boosting item giving him a 13. The paladin has a total modifier of 17 without any stat boosting items! I know that 11-12 at level 7 with no stat boosting items is stupid high, but with the entire party being at the same level, I can compensate, one player being so far ahead complicates this though. He used advanced age categories to boost his mental stats with a penalty to his physical stats then as soon as he got his first mythic tier he used the universal ability Longevity to eliminate the physical penalties while keeping the boosted mental stats. He played an Aasimar, a 15 RP race with no stat penalty.

He attempted to use Beyond Morality to completely negate his need to RP or fulfill his obligation to be Lawful Good but I refused to allow him to take this ability as I am trying to encourage him to actually role play and with the story being so focused on good and evil I felt it was not appropriate here. This, once again, was met with complaints.

He is wearing magical full plate and a magical heavy steel shield. He has mythic shield focus that allows him to add his shield bonus to his touch AC. He has a ring of protection and an amulet of natural armor. This results in him having an AC in the low 30's and having a touch AC in the mid twenties. He has an 18 charisma and a cloak of resistance +2, this with being a paladin means that all of his saves are through the roof. These defenses pretty much dwarf the rest of the entire party.

In addition to having his defenses boosted through the roof he is also an experienced player and uses out of character knowledge to bypass or defend against anything I throw at him.

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In Summary....
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I have been building the encounters to match the party and they have been able to topple much larger threats than any party of their level should have. This is fine as we anticipated this and the party enjoys it, it also allows me to explore the bestiaries and design fun and challenging encounters that would have no place in standard games. The challenge is that if I build an encounter that could conceivably penetrate the paladin's defenses, therefore challenging him as well, then I have built an encounter that has no chance of missing the rest of the party and with saves that they cannot overcome without constantly surging. This has started causing a serious issue and is affecting the ability of my players to have fun or myself to have fun with running the game.

I have spoken to him time and time again and haven't gotten far. We don't really want to remove him from the game as this will come at the expense of losing a player that we want to keep. As the party gains further in levels and wealth this problem is going to continue to be exacerbated as I have heard plans from the rest of the party to make very rich RP based decisions for their characters, while the paladin is planning on further shoring up his defenses and finding a way to add a devastating offense to his repertoire.

I have grudgingly come to the conclusion that the only way to deal with the situation is to kill off his paladin and be more proactive in preventing his next character from being out of control. I hate this solution as I always try to be impartial when it comes to the game and to just allow things to happen naturally. However I am out of alternatives. I am open to suggestions of alternatives but baring that....

How do I kill an overpowered paladin, make it seem organic and part of the story, and not throw something at the party that is going to cause a party wipe?
Can a pinned character be "Coup de Grace"ed?
12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

This came up in a recent game:

Character A had Character B pinned with the aid of his multiple animal companions each offering +4 aid bonus to his CMD (to a total of something like DC 12 million to escape). Character A then used his animal companions to "Coup de Grace" Character B arguing that while pinned Character B was helpless.

The pinned condition does not state that a character is helpless but does state that the pinned character is "tightly bound" and the helpless condition says "A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy." In this case, does this make a pinned character helpless and thus eligible for a Coup de Grace, or should we assume that since the pinned condition does not explicitly state that the character is "helpless" that they are not eligible for a Coup de Grace?

The conditions both list similar (but differently worded) penalties for the condition. Helpless states that "A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target)." and pinned states "A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class." The similar penalties seems to imply that they are much the same but the lack of an explicit statement of helplessness in the pinned condition and the different wording seems to imply that they should be different.

I am on the fence about the issue myself and I have seen very convincing arguments in posts from others that favor both sides of the debate. We made an on the fly ruling at the time of the session and have no intention of going back but I think this is something that is ambiguously worded and would like an official ruling or statement of how the rules were intended.

Pinned:

A pinned creature is tightly bound and can take few actions. A pinned creature cannot move and is denied its Dexterity bonus. A pinned character also takes an additional –4 penalty to his Armor Class. A pinned creature is limited in the actions that it can take. A pinned creature can always attempt to free itself, usually through a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check. A pinned creature can take verbal and mental actions, but cannot cast any spells that require a somatic or material component. A pinned character who attempts to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC 10 + grappler's CMB + spell level) or lose the spell. Pinned is a more severe version of grappled, and their effects do not stack.

Casting Spells while Pinned: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.

Helpless:

A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.

As a full-round action, an enemy can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace to a helpless foe. An enemy can also use a bow or crossbow, provided he is adjacent to the target. The attacker automatically hits and scores a critical hit. (A rogue also gets his sneak attack damage bonus against a helpless foe when delivering a coup de grace.) If the defender survives, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity.

Creatures that are immune to critical hits do not take critical damage, nor do they need to make Fortitude saves to avoid being killed by a coup de grace.

Coup de Grace:

As a full-round action, you can use a melee weapon to deliver a coup de grace (pronounced "coo day grahs") to a helpless opponent. You can also use a bow or crossbow, provided you are adjacent to the target.

You automatically hit and score a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or die. A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace.

Delivering a coup de grace provokes attacks of opportunity from threatening opponents.

You can't deliver a coup de grace against a creature that is immune to critical hits. You can deliver a coup de grace against a creature with total concealment, but doing this requires two consecutive full-round actions (one to "find" the creature once you've determined what square it's in, and one to deliver the coup de grace).

Thank you
Boon Companion with Packmaster
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite.

In our game we have a player who has a hunter with the packmaster Archetype and is planning on taking about 5 animal companions and then take Boon companion for each of them.

Currently we are at 2nd level and he has a turtle and a falcon both of which he has taken boon companion for. So he has 2, 2nd level companions. At this level it isn't that big of a deal but I see problems arising in the future...

He has stated that he plans of taking a new companion each level up to 5th level. Being a human he will have 4 feats, all of which he is planning on taking Boon Companion for. This will give him 4, 5th level companions and a 1st level companion. That's 21 levels of animal companions at level 5!

If we look forward to 20th level, assuming he is going to split levels equally for each of the 5 companions, that makes 5, 8th level companions. Sure, 8th level companions at 20th level are giong to be under powered individually, but when stacking aid bonuses and teamwork feats this could potentially get ridiculous fast. He would effectively have the animal companion level of a 40th level druid. (5 companions * 8 levels each = 40 levels)

When asked he has stated that by higher levels this will loose effectiveness as they wont keep up with attack bonus and damage bonus of higher level characters so it is not broken and clearly as the rules were intended...

Packmaster Archetype:

Pack Bond (Ex)

A packmaster can have more than one animal companion, but she must divide her effective druid level between her companions to determine the abilities of each one. For example, a 4th-level packmaster can have one 4th-level animal companion, two 2nd-level companions, one 3rd-level companion and one 1st-level companion, or four 1st-level companions.

When a packmaster gains a level, she must decide how to allocate the increase among her animal companions, including whether or not to add a new 1st-level companion. Once a hunter level is allocated to a particular companion, it cannot be redistributed while that companion is in the packmaster's service. She must release the companion or wait until the companion dies to allocate its levels to another companion, which she can then do the next time she refreshes her spell slots for the day. The share spells animal companion ability applies to only one animal companion at a time—the packmaster cannot use it to cast a spell that affects only a single target and have the spell affect all of her animal companions.

A packmaster's precise companion, woodland stride, and teamwork feats apply to only one of her animal companions at a time. (For example, a packmaster can apply precise companion to one companion, woodland stride to another, and a given teamwork feat to a third, but cannot apply any of those to two animal companions at once.) As a swift action, she can change which companion gains any or all of these benefits.

This ability replaces animal companion.

Boon Companion:
Your bond with your animal companion or familiar is unusually close.

Prerequisites: Animal companion or familiar class feature.

Benefit: The abilities of your animal companion or familiar are calculated as though your class were 4 levels higher, to a maximum effective druid level equal to your character level. If you have more than one animal companion or familiar, choose one to receive this benefit. If you lose or dismiss an animal companion or familiar that has received this benefit, you may apply this feat to the replacement creature.

Special: You may select this feat more than once. The effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different animal companion or familiar.

The feat seems to state that each animal companion can be boosted up to the players effective druid level and that you can take this feat for each companion. By RAW this seems to be completely legal and stack with the archetype...right?

My questions are:
Is this legal?
Is this broken?
Is this as intended?

I would greatly appreciate an official ruling or maybe an errata or FAQ. Thank you,