Onesiphoros's page

Ah, sorry. I don't always notice rhetorical because Autism.

Definitely don't worry about it. Just because it was more meant as a rhetorical doesn't mean I'm unhappy that you replied and backed up your reasoning. Maybe at some point someone can figure it out and make everyone happy...but I don't ever see it happening.

Onesiphoros wrote:

I know it's tangential, but I've been seeing that comment over the past few years and I always want to ask, what's a good layout for RPG's then?

I don't think there is one. Organization is one of the Wicked Problems.

Specifically we have contradictory requirements of:

Keeping redundancy low and lowering page count by centralizing definitions of common rules and terms.
Keeping related concepts in close proximity to avoid the page flipping problems that MaxAstro mentioned.

Organizing things in the order new players are going to experience them.
Organizing things by topic so that they can be found quickly.

Thank you breithauptclan. For me the question was more rhetorical but I know I asked it in a way to get answers. I've been playing RPG's for many years and read more systems than I've ever played (if I can ever get a group together that's large enough and interested in the Amber Diceless RPG I'll be able to die happy [pun unintended but I'm pleased by it]). The repeated commentary on the layout just irritates me, and I know I've said it about different systems before as well, but the repeated refrain can convince someone new not to try the system and I would much rather encourage people if it's something that interests them.

Honestly the hardest part for me was parsing the rulebook. Lord does 2e crb have layout problems...

This issue is something that plagues RPG's in general. I see it all over the place in particular to PF2e and VtM 5th ed. I thought the D&D 5e book had a bad layout (that could simply be that I was being roped into it after being spoiled by PF2E though). It makes me wonder what other RPG's the commenter has played, and what the differences in the books and layouts are. Sometimes I think the issue is something that would easily be solved by a more complete index.

I know it's tangential, but I've been seeing that comment over the past few years and I always want to ask, what's a good layout for RPG's then?

Yeah! You gotta catch 'em all!

"Celestial Dire Badger, I choose you!"

I always preferred Fiendish Dire Weasels, but then my group does call me a dirty kobold lover for a reason I suppose, :P.

As for the issue of the thread, I can't say I ever gave much thought to Comprehend Languages. I never took it as a Sorcerer and rarely did so as a Wizard unless the group came upon carvings or something. And even in that case, it was usually a riddle that we had to solve, so just because we (or I)understood the script, it didn't mean it gave anything away.

Convey languages

Divination
Lvl brd 1 clr 1 sor/wiz 1
Components V, S, M/DF
Casting Time 1 standard action
Range touch
Target Touched Creature
Duration 10 min./level

Touched Creature can understand the spoken words of the caster or read otherwise incomprehensible written messages. In either case, you must touch the creature. The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning. The spell enables the touched creature to understand or read an unknown language, not speak or write it.

Written material can be read at the rate of one page (250 words) per minute. Magical writing cannot be read, though the spell reveals that it is magical. This spell can be foiled by certain warding magic (such as the secret page and illusory script spells). It does not decipher codes or reveal messages concealed in otherwise normal text.

Convey languages can be made permanent with a permanency spell.
Arcane Material Component

My only thought with this would be to either make it a 2nd level spell, or maybe make the duration 5 minutes instead of 10. Otherwise it's a good opposite to comprehend languages.