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Organized Play Member. 4 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Organized Play characters.


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Rysky wrote:

*nods*

It just makes the phrase "should put the players first" rather odd, since it implies there's something other than players?

This is what WoTC did with 4.0. They had (at the time) the worlds biggest cash cow in MTG. They turned their back on the DND heritage and made a money grab. How did it work out? Almost from the get go they were developing 5.0 to cover it all up. Paizo is duplicating the 4.0 error without the cash cow. They can’t afford it.

2E is about newbs and casuals. Paizo appears to have abandoned their bedrock for mass appeal. In business it’s called quantity over quality. You make the money on the volume. The problem is that thinking fails long term. When you look at the server problems, and changes that really don’t amount to much it seems like the company is going to live or die on a 4.0 model. No one knows what is going on and player feedback down the tree to the Regionals and VC’s has been terrible. If you want to make changes fine, but not talking to the people you need to usher in the new world doesn’t make sense.

Back in the day (I can hear the eye rolls) we played classes and races because they were special. Hero or dud it’s what we wanted. Now in 2E there isn’t anything special about any race or class. Everything is “equal” so as not to offend. Dumb down, streamline, and nerf bat isn’t why we play a fantasy RPG but that is where Paizo wants to go.

Yes, please grow, but do so intelligently. Find a balance. Don’t copy 5.0 just enough to avoid a lawsuit. Be creative. Think out of the box. Give us something awesome to spend our hard earned dollars on. There are bright, creative people in that building. Turn them loose. Let them do amazing work and put it into the product. Don’t remake a “better” 4.0 don’t make a 4.0 at all. Stop trying to follow WoTC. Lead out and be innovative.

That’s where I am coming from anyway.

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This is going to be very blunt. Where to start. First 2E is an attempt to make money. Let’s be clear on this. Paizo, like any other business has to grow. Now there is a smart way and a stupid way to grow. Paizo has decided to follow the second option. 2E is nothing more than a repackaged version of the terrible, failed D&D 4.0 system with some elements of a watered down vanilla 5.0 system. Someone at Paizo decided they needed a “New Coke” moment and they are driving that car off the cliff to prove their commitment. Now there are a few elements of 2E worth keeping but those are few and they could be grafted seamlessly into the current system. Sadly, the result in my area has been a loathing of 2E with playtest numbers to match.

Experienced players that have been loyal to Paizo are nervous. They are nervous because they believe Paizo will give us all the collective middle finger and say sucks to be you it’s 2E or nothing. As one player told me, if I wanted to play 5.0 that’s what I’d be playing. Another one told me, if I wanted vanilla I’d be playing 5.0. Still another told me, if I wanted mindless simplicity where every class is equal and there is nothing great about the races I’d be playing 5.0. Frightening stuff from heavily invested players.

At the end of the day I started playing Pathfinder because of 3.5 and being treated so poorly by 4.0 I walked away from a 30 plus year relationship with D&D because of 4.0 and I’ve never looked back. I don’t want to play a system that nerf bats everything because someone decided tthat every race and class had to be fair and the same. I play 1E because I am sick and tired of this asinine belief that nothing can be greater than anything else. I want to play heroes and duds because I choose the combinations to make them so. I play 1E because at the end of the day being equally lame is wrong. The 2E system goes the wrong direction. It’s trying too hard to be WoTC.

Paizo needs to grow and stay fresh, I get that. So far with the play test there seems to be a schism at Paizo. The changes in the play test have been nice but they feel periferal, kind of a token let’s give them something to shut them up but it’s pedal to the metal. The core issues still are the same. I can’t help but wonder if there is a huge divide in the creative team.

Give me a reason to spend my hard earned dollars and I’ll stay. Give me a repackaged 4.0 hybrid? Most likely I will move on to a company that puts players first in their products and systems. A company that balances the needs of the business and the consumer to create an amazing product. Paizo has a chance to do that but so far the jury is out.


If one goes the STR path does that change the skills and feats, as well as the weapons? Any thoughts on stat assignments, etc... Thank you for the thoughts it does help.


Decided to make a Nagaji Ninja. However I am relatively new to the PFS style and I am not certain how to accomplish this. The character is going to be a traditional Ninja in that he will sneak around, work in the shadows, and seek to do damage from flanking and surprise. Weapons will be the traditional stars, sword, smoke bomb/flash bang, etc... The key stat is DEX not STR. However the bugger is trying to figure out feats, skills, etc, but still cover the obvious. This is the part about building a character that is laborious and very confusing. I would like to really push the PFS structure/restrictions but stay legal and lethal. Thoughts?