Nurgan's page

Hogarth, that's pretty much what I went with- essentially, you can be Evil so long as it's a form of Evil that can work with a normal party. As a result I've had three evil characters, one an overealous Antihero (who's mellowed since), one pragmatic mercenary, and one opposed Villain. None have caused trouble, yet.

Admittedly, though, it's striking that a PC has difference between finding an evil group to allt with them and to kill them all. It's a bit jarring that they can be o secret while still keeepiong their existence hidden.

I had various people occasionally asking for my groups name, and not getting an answer. So I had the Stormblades put it about to refer to the group as "The Dunnymen" (A very unpleasant name for plumbers), since they seemed to deal with waterworks a lot.

They quickly decided that they were The Sentinels.

zoroaster100, I hope you're still about, as I want to say thanks for your fluff of the Order. I've got a character who's just started an exalted monk, and the stuff you've written is really helpful for me writing his introductory background. And, of course, working out ways to mess with him later...

The other issue is Zenith himself. On their first encounter, the dwarven-speaking halfelf tried unsuccessful to awake him from his revery. He made some pretty abysmall Diplomacy checks so it was easy to say nothing happened. Have you or anyone else developed a mechanic for "talking down" the once great dwarven warrior?

I'd be interested how people handled Zenith himself, as well. I know he can't be convinced to leave Bhalbha.. Bhal-ba.. The temple, but I'd be interested how he handles responses, and how he responds to pleas and beggings from the party. Also how he goes from "stubborn refusal to leave" to "trying to kill them".

I'm tempted by a twisted version of Dwarven honour. The Kuo- tuans have made him Lord of this temple, so his honour does not permit him to leave it or surrender it without putting up a fight with all resistance he can. This of course fits with him being cooperative on the way back: he's no longer bound to the place. I have a Splintershield dwarf on the party, so maybe he'd understand this.

Finally on Zenith, how "accurate" if not specific, did people make his prophecies? Does Zenith, in his madness, have some bizarre feel for what's going on?

I'd be interested to hear how other DMs handled him. Sorry to hijack the thread, but it seemed a waste when there's already seems to be a ton of ZT threads about.

Does Adimarchus just sit there for all eternity as the gods intended? Does the wave of madness continue to increase? Does the party need to break him free so they can kill him and make him shut up with the voices in the head already?

That seems to be about it. It's a bit odd that an Adimarcus trapped in a box is more dangerous than one with a subplane of his own, but his lunacy spreads through the world.

OP, if noone has any other reason suggested by other poster, you may need to *give* them some link. Perhaps have Adimarcus "creating" some beastie or challenge that is linked to the smoking eye. Echoes of the Cagewrights attacking the party all at once with smokey eyes would be about right (though that would be a bit scary, so maybe make them weaker, or not simultaneous).

I'd only do that if they knocked Adimarcus about enough for him to notice, though, and if the party didn't come to better conclusions ("Hey, maybe we need to go back to that place").

When I've been doing dreams, I've been finding equivalent scenarios for the characters to what happened to Adimarcus.

So in their dream you might find that a loved one ypu rescued from a fire (or similar backstory) was actually the unidentified arsonist, and for finding them, you must burn (trickery by Graz'zt). Or you've been kicked out of your home, and you've acquired an army to attack your landlord (his assualt on occipitus). References to Adimarcus's events, but without the blatancy of it being angels and demons (or if you have an angel/ demon thing see it in reverse: a risen angel striking out to purify a layer of the abyss).
They're also likely to contain elements of what they've met recently, so giving them images of how the villain they've just killed is leading an army of the monsters they were with, but your companion fell in love with them... Same story, different players. And potentially sending them on the wrong track entirely.

It depends on how much you want to use it, but I'm making a point of including some psionics into there. I turned one of the goblin adepts into a blue psion, have turned Thearynn into a full blown psion, and will be including the occasional psionic monsters here and there (crebreliths on Occipitus, some mindphwooping underdark gribblies etc. I'm trying to keep it a bit rare through, as while psionics exist, it's not as *big* a part of the world as magic.

So is anyone else thinking of sticking some of this in through "not really happened methods": dream sequences, visions, prophecies or whatever? I can imagine the fun of implying that Jenya was a mindflayer in a dream sequence and seeing if the players run with it.

"I had a vision in my sleep: she was going to eat our brains"
"You'd just eaten too much cheese!"
"No really!"

I went "Eh!" immediately, then took a moment to read through the thread and "got" it (to be fair, the SCAP is pretty blatant with its "secretly a monster" thing. I almost showed my PCs the City description on page 11, before realising the 3rd notable in the city was a bit too well decribed). Kudos to whoever noted the Athax/ Adimarcus thing.

<Back on subject> I mean, who'd have thought Athax was secretly the one running the Chisel, having seen the mystic connection beforehand? Is there a reason his father has banished him to such a foul role?

Sorry I just reread your post. There is a section in the Hard Copy that reveals whan he fell. I believe it is in the history section and off hand I think it was only about 50 years a go so rather recently.

Anyway have a look through the write up at the start of the Hard Cover for more details

Delvesdeep

Nope, the history records that he was imprisoned in Skullrot 50 years ago, but no dates for the invasion of Occipitus, or his original fall from the Heavens. I'm considering giving a dream sequence to one the shackleborn in the party, but I'm thinking of having some of the "unexplained mysteries" of Skaven's to be based on Adimarcus's fall, or the battle of the Planes. The issue isn't touched upon, which is why I'm after info on this from from other DM's especially estimates of times.

I'm currently considering linking him into the story of Balam in Tome of Magic (another angel who cast her soul out of existance after being sacrificed to a dark god). Adimarcus went out to retrieve her soul from the Dark god, and was somehow brought round to evil, possibly due to taking the Gods power, or as a result of being captured by the god. That god is now all but forgotten (some old texts may record his loss or his identity), but Adimarcus took over his power, and was corrupted by it.

This needs a bit more thinking and ironing out, but that's the gist I'm going for.

Hi! I'm currently up to Flood Season, and was considering having a few foreshadowings of Adimarcus appearing amongst Saven's libraries. Nothing direct, but some side-effects of his fall, battles, imprisonment, connected stories, perhaps odd happenings at about these times. Not enough to give the game away, but enough that they might get linked later on, as part of the story.

The trouble is, that I can't find much in the Hardcopy on when, or how he fell, or when he got imprisoned etc. I'd like to make the story of his fall quite dramatic, and I've got some ideas I'm knocking about, but I'd love to hear what other DMs ran on this, and any info on the timelines.

Thanks

Chapter 3: Flood Season: No mention of half-orc. I presume with the backing of Vhalantru, Terseon Skellerang starts hiring half-orc, but why? This should start ring alarm bells everywhere, that something is wrong. I understand that Terseon is loyal to Vhalantru, but even the other guards whould see a problem with this.

Why? Half- orcs are just as much people as the rest of the guards. Terseon's loyalty may lead him to want to protect Vhalantru.

In my campaign, the party reveals to the guards their suspicions that one of the noble families may be trying to recruit their personal army. This, led to the guards responding in kind, by hiring some muscle of their own, and luckily, there are some amenable half orcs nearby...

In Chapter 5, the "anarchists" are in fact the Chisel, who are secretive and running counter to the "wills of the rulers of the city": which is mostly run by the Cagewrights. The malevolence of the Chisel is a myth, but the guard and Vhalantru want people to believe they're up to no good. Ideally, their meeting with the Chisel in Ch5 should be tainted with all sorts of vicious rumours that have been spread.

With the sepia snake sigil I would make them have to read it, just because it is a pretty potent trap(even though the save isn't too bad).

That's just it, though. As described there's nothing to read. I might change it to writing on the door, but the party aren't really going to read anything written on the door or the back of a secret chamber.

While we're on Skaven, any neat ideas for the mysterious (and totally unrelated notes he's got are on?)

Quick question. According to the Hardback, Skaven has two Sepia Snake Sigil traps in his bedroom. Having read the description, these sigils need to actively be read, and on a shett of paper. Have people just ignored this, and made them traps triggered by being on walls, by touch, by sight, or any other suggestions? The Sepias seem a bit scary if they're so easily activated.

Just curious on this one. Is anyone else incorporating these into the campaign, even minorly? As I've declared them OK options for the PCs, I'm thinking of places I can put Psi & Incarnate classes as various villains, or other acknowledgements of them. I've barely started the campaign (taking a break after Life's Bazaar), so I still have some wiggle room for alternative plot changes.

He is most definately taken from the orphanage when needed, though I don't think they specify exactly when this happens. At first blush, with out rereading back through everything, I would say during the confusion of the eruption would likely be the best time as it is likely to go unnoticed.

I'd think this unlikely, as I thought the eruption was caused by the Tree of shackled souls ritual (it apparently takes ages to "purify" the victims". I'm personally weary of the PCs keeping too close an eye on the Orphanage (they were really watching it early on) so I'm thinking of other ways to get him into the Cagewrights' hands.

I'ts tempting to say that Vhalantru blags him that he can see Terrem's destiny (and with that many eyes, would you question it?) and give him details of a man who will lead him to greatness. When Nulin shows up later in disguise, Terrem embraces his destiny, and happily journeys off with him to distant lands (or in fact, a nearby alley, where Nulin knocks him out)

It's not a flawless plan, but if it goes wrong, they can still just kidnap him by brute force.

I'm probably looking that the dwarves came in from another direction (so another exit in the Malachite fortress) and the gnomes decended from Cauldron, planned to extend downwards, magically surveyed and found the malachite fortress. The other entrance either got collapsed or barricaded off, I've yet to decide.
Fun part is that my party has a dwarf of the Splintershield clan who's home is under attack from goblins, come to look for aid from the dwarves in the malachite fortress. Him finding out what happens should be ... interesting.

Just started (had two sessions, currently knocking round in Jzadirune).

Party is currently

Aasimar Cleric of Cuthbert
Astral Deva
Dwarf ranger
Goliath Barbarian
Tiefling Rogue
Elan Psion
Halfling wizard

The Elan and Tiefling are both technically evil, but not "kitten eaters", and the only argument so far has been about the Elan avoiding the halfling because he's filthy.

The elan is probably leaving the party/ getting bumped off in a few weeks as his player is moving home to Ireland. But I've got two players (looking at a grig and another Aasimar) who are lined up.

Out of curiosity, how strict were people with races they allowed, as the city seems to be based purely around "normal" races?