Nilserdin's page

I don't know if this has been suggested or is a truly novel idea but instead of the MT using the +1/+1 level of spellcasting classes why don't we just fuse the spell lists and use +1 level of current spllcasting class.

MT's are then mages who learn to prepare some low level divine spells or clerics who learn some low level arcane spells.

This means that a starting character can advance one spellcasting class to Level 5 to become an MT. For prerequisites we can require that they spend a feat or two and maintain both knowledge religion and knowledge arcana at max ranks (which would be five for both classes under the Pathfinder skills rules which just add a +3 bonus to class skills.) I know that this favor wizards slightly but it makes much more thematic sense for wizards to try to simulate divine effects than for clerics or druids to try to find a way to go beyond the gifts of their gods.

Upon entering the MT class the character then gets to add 1st level spells of one opposite spell casting class (wizard/sorceror, cleric or druid) to their spell list as though they were spells of their starting class (e.g. wizards still suffer arcane spell failure penalties even when casting cure light wounds).

For example a character advances as a cleric for 5 levels picking up the prerequisite feats and the necessary skill ranks. (Which means they contribute normally to group survival).

At level six the character becomes cleric 5/MT 1. She then has all the powers abilities of a 5th level cleric. In addition she has the same CL and spell slots as a 6th level cleric. She can fill those spell slots with any cleric spell of levels 1-3 as normal AND any wizard/sorceror spell she learns of 1st level or lower. In addition she can use any items normally usable by a 6th level cleric or wizard/sorceror.

When she reaches level 7 (cleric 5/MT 2) She has the powers and abilities of a 5th level cleric and the spells, spell slots and caster level of a 7th level cleric. In addition she can choose to fill those spell slots with wizard spells of 1st-2nd level that she learns.

If the character had started as a Wizard then, she could prepare cleric spells when she becomes an MT.

This system maintains the power level and spell slot exhaustion rate but gives versatility in kinds of spells and magic items available rather than spells per day.

Few extra points:

All spells of the new class should be learned from spell scrolls if the base class is cleric, wizard or druid (which works thematiclly since its either a divine caster learning an arcane spell or an arcane caster learning how to simulate a divine effect).

Sorcerors learn spells of all their classes via the standard spells known system choosing from among all the spells available to them from both class lists. In addition, upon entering the MT class sorcerors are allowed the opportunity to swap any 1st level spells with spells from the new additions to their class spell list.

I'm sure there are some details I missed but this might make the MT more playable by giving versatility to what they can do rather than how often they can do it. It should also keep them from being being underpowered for the first 5 levels or overflowing with magic at the top five levels.

It's also fully backwards compatible since it effectively just expands the class spell list for the MT.

I really like the idea of being able to create items containing effects you can't prepare as spells. It creates a nice system for:

1) getting that one-time effect you need without having to travel half the world to go and buy it. I know that my parties get more satisfaction out of accomplishing their goals on their own rather than having to find some NPC to sell them what they need.

2)allowing sorcerors to supplement their limited spell list by creating items that contain the spells they lack. This could make item creation a special niche for sorcerors since they get the most out of this system.

3)explaining why magic-users might rely on magic items rather than just learning the spell. In this case the idea of the archmage who relies upon his special staff or wand makes even more sense (since he can't just prep the "kill party" spell each morning, providing a hook of pre-quests like stealing said magic item).

I would suggest including the following limitations though:

1) Crafters cannot create items that are not on their class spell list or domain spell-like ability list. So no Wizards making cure light wounds and no clerics crafting fireball staves (unless they worship the god of fire).

2)If a wizard creates a scroll for a spell he does not already have in his spell book, that scroll cannot be used to add the spell to his spellbook. In other words, if a wizard does not have fireball in his spellbook, he can still create a fireball scroll which he can use to cast fireball in a battle. However, he cannot scribe it into his spellbook as a spell he can prepare each morning. (Unless the designers mean to have the spell research rules be replaced by magic item creation rules)

It seems to me that a big part of the balancing act is between the paladin's ability to heal himself in combat to gain a few more rounds of attack actions vs. making sure he doesn't outshine the cleric in healing or produce so much positive energy that he can nuke liches with a touch.

Could we better simulate the divine support provided to the paladin by allowing him to spend multiple lay on hands charges for restoring hitpoints in a single round, but only when healing himself?

That way he will:

1) be able to call upon his deity for a significant burst of self-healing in combat,

2) be able to wound undead with his lay on hands ability but unable to nuke undead boss enemies with a single touch,

3) be able to supply healing to others in small doses but never as well as the cleric can.

This also avoids having to tweak the equations for the amount of healing (which always seem to be too high or too low depending on the campaign and the enemy).

The paladin gets to be the holy warrior buoyed by his deity and the cleric gets to be the chief source of healing for the party.