Talgeron wrote: I'd be okay with buying the ability to start higher with achievement points, even because you have to run or play Pathfinder to get them. I routinely start off my characters at higher levels because of GM chronicles. For a ton of folks, that wouldn't be an issue. But for a public game day, that's where you'll have problems. It's the brand new player who wants to try the cool blog build or someone who's trying "basically 5e" for the first time that worries me. The only way I can see to screen for "I have a solid understanding of the rules of the game" is making it achievement point gated. Even then, you'll have issues, just not as many, I don't think. I know this isn't probably what you're referring to, but I think I like the idea of having certain achievement point gates for character building. When you start out players can build a level one character, and if you get a certain number of lifetime achievement points earned you have the option to build a character at first or second level. At another threshold you get the option to build first through third level, and so forth. After they're built, characters continue to progress with XP normally. This gives an options for experienced players to skip the low level grind only after they prove they've got the systems knowledge to do it, and doubly rewards GMs because they're probably (hopefully) much more familiar with the system than players are. Not sure how it would work in practice, but I know it can be a drag grinding through those first few levels. It would also be helpful if we are having a narrower band to let experienced players build low level (but not first level) characters to fit into a particular level band. Not sure how this would work in practice, but I like the idea.
Justin Franklin wrote:
I'd be down for this. A foundry & pdf adventure subscription would ease a lot of the issues I'm having with this transition, and I don't think I'm alone in that.
Yep, I'll add in my .02 also. I've recently had to cancel my subscriptions due to not needing the physical product any more...and now having to buy both the pdf and the foundry module make me reconsider things even more. Hopefully there's some new solution soon, or there's some way to at least bundle the foundry module with the pdf...
NerdOver9000 wrote:
Heh, reading the description of the two APs this is not as direct a prediction as I first thought, but it sure has echoes of what wound up being the direction Paizo went.
bugleyman wrote:
I'll highlight this for my hope as well. I've even played around with making token stickers from foundry tokens. I can extract token images from the foundry sets, print them out on a sheet of sticker paper then cut them out with my co-worker's cricut. From there it's a fairly simple process to stick them on 1" wooden rounds I buy from Amazon, scaling up for larger creatures. I think it would be dirt cheap for Paizo to make these sticker sheets for APs...after all, they're already making the token art for the foundry release...and market them along with some blank plastic or wood tokens to stick them to. The blank tokens would be able to be used for every AP and the sticker sheets could be bundled in cheaply enough. When your party wraps up the AP just remove the stickers and they're ready for the next AP. Maybe do a 'premium AP' subscription that includes the hardcover and the token sticker sheet sent together. *shrugs* A guy can hope...
Myself, I'm very excited for the change. Hardcover books tend to hold up a bit better in my experience, so when I want to take a book to a table I think it'll hold up to transport a bit better I think. I'll echo other sentiments that I'm hoping this works out to be a more coherent story vs the monthly installments. When running adventures I always had to spend some time meshing volumes together. Hopefully this also means that APs are easier to keep in stock. I'm trying to build a complete collection of APs and there are two or three where I'm missing a volume or two. Having them all combined would make collecting a lot easier.
I got my copy in the mail today and I've been resisting reading through it. The group I'm in is due to fight the final boss on Thursday, and I don't want to get ahead of myself. I know that this AP was panned for being a long escort quest, but I've had a lot of fun in it. Once we wrap things up this week I'm looking forward to cracking open the original books and the remaster to see the differences and what my GM added to the story.
Maya Coleman wrote:
I'll throw in my interest as well, but I'm a sucker for anything foundry. Being able to choose a level, click and generate a level appropriate item would be super rad for those random treasure chests...especially if it generated the item with all the magical effects already loaded onto it with a nice token and dropped it into a loot actor. May be a bit beyond the scope of just a foundry version of the deck, but a guy can dream.
Maya Coleman wrote:
Queue me up as a purchaser for this as well from Foundry. Running a sandbox game in Golarion would be so much easier if we had maps available with preloaded journal entries, especially for the cities. For larger cities I feel like it would help to even have district maps with shops prepopulated that the PCs can visit.
Glad to know I'm not too far off. I use 2mm chipboard because my mother's cricut can cut it reliably and cleanly, with glossy printable vinyl stickers for the artwork. I pre-cut the chipboard on the cricut, cut the artwork out roughly with scissors, stick the chipboard cutout onto the back of the artwork, and use a razor blade to trim the artwork to fit the chipboard. So far it's worked well and allows me to print off some out of print or custom pawns, but I'd really rather just buy them myself... Not that I get to play in person much anymore, I've moved far more online these days.
I'm excited for Starfinder 2e, especially with rules compatibility. I've said before I'm excited to run a Chrono Trigger style time traveling campaign and it's great that the players can be from different times and still play together well. I'll have to reign in some things from the Starfinder end (early flight for example) but for the most part it makes it so easy to run this style of campaign.
thistledown wrote: I'm really glad to see a return to a pdf guide for organized play. Amen to that. Having something to hand to new players and go, "Read this. It'll give you enough info to get started," is something I've been sorely missing. Having a couple of those printed out and bound will be really nice.
Fabios wrote: Problem is: the game changes drastically from low levels to mid levels. my point is that 1-5 pathfinder is a COMPLETELY different game than 7-20 pathfinder mathematically speaking I just want to highlight this one as one of my biggest problems with the system. I stepped my players through the beginner box, and though it did GREAT in explaining the very basics of the game such as attacking, combat, skill checks and etc I feel like it did not prepare them for any game beyond about 3rd level. One thing I would love to see is some higher level skill builder adventures, for lack of a better term, to help players learn some skills that don't come up in lower level play. Along with these, you'd need some higher level pregenerated characters that have a paragraph or two highlighting what they're good at, their common combos, and how they interact with their companions. That level 9 halfling gathered lore psychic? In addition to blasting the enemy with a cool ally ignoring AOE (Shatter Mind), once they activate unleashed psyche they can use occultism to give the magus a +4 aid bonus on their spell strike as an action and a reaction, likely triggering a crit, especially if the investigator used Shared Stratagem to make the enemy off-guard earlier in the round. And, because the investigator used strategic assessment as part of their devise a stratagem, the magus knew to use needle darts to trigger the creature's weakness to cold iron. The level 6 druid that just got fireball? They can't drop that damage as easily if the front line charges in, but if the party delays to stay in a cluster with the justice champion near the center there's a good likelihood that there will be enemies clustered on one side of the party for a juicy multi-hit. The rogue that just got gang up also has a good reason to stick with their buddy, as now the enemies are vulnerable to sneak attack damage. Conversely, if they're facing spellcasters or breath weapons that's probably a bad idea! For most experienced players thinking like this probably comes as second nature, but having it pointed out in a brief 'blurb about your character' in the beginning of the adventure would really help new players, I think. Once they see it in action they can hopefully go into the rulebooks proper to see WHY certain actions are good and start thinking of ways to synergize with their allies in ways that lower level adventures just don't cover very well.
I'm really excited for this new adventure format! I've run through the beginner box probably 5-6 times with various family members on family trips because it feels like a board game. Having alternatives that work the same way, with all the pawns and maps ready, seems like a big win! I will say that if this does well I hope you branch out to higher levels in future products...a 5th level adventure would be a great level for a lot of players that aren't absolute newbies. The pregens have their first ability score bumps, spellcasters get their 3rd rank spells (fireball, anyone?) and everyone should have their striking runes so they feel a lot more powerful.
Kelseus wrote:
I still use my old dungeon magazines for this on occasion, since it's so easy to build encounters for 2nd edition...use the maps, characters and ideas from the magazine and quickly build encounters that fit the theme. I spoke in this thread before but I would love to see more linked adventures in this theme, and I really hope this one is successful.
CastleDour wrote: id prefer age of ashes or agents of edgewatch, SoG is really good as is Hear, hear! Season of Ghosts is already amazing. Age of Ashes was an incredible globe trotting adventure that was spoiled for a lot of people by lack of experience in the system and overtuned combats. Mellowing the combats out, tightening up the story beats a bit and releasing it all as a single book and foundry module would make it very well received I think. Agents of Edgewatch may be a little too hot to handle right now, considering everything, but I think Strength of Thousands and Outlaws of Alkenstar would benefit, also.
zantrova wrote:
I would LOVE this as a foundry pack that I could upload and let my players explore.
Mangaholic13 wrote:
Been beating the drum for this for a while. I'd love to have all the eras covered so I could do a time traveling Chrono Trigger style campaign...
The Raven Black wrote: After having misread a description of Gatewalkers as an escort quest AP, I now demand an escort AP. With the long-awaited attending LO book : Dancing Halls of Golarion. (The below is written with tongue firmly in cheek.) Could you fit a full AP out of that? Maybe you need to do a book of pub crawls first. Cayden Cailean would approve! Then you can do the Escort Book, then a Golem (the card game) book. I could certainly see my players having a good time.
Grankless wrote:
I have to agree. Had I not been familiar with Psionics from 1e/3.5 and your work with Alluria I probably would have passed on this one. Beef up that main page for more casual traffic! I've already pledged and I would love for it to fund so we an get our books.
Emberion wrote:
Well, I for one am excited to see how this plays out. I was a big fan of DSP's work in the past, and I'm excited to see your take on adapting it to PF2e. More options are almost always a good thing!
So, I don't know if anyone has brought this up yet or not, but I want to say I REALLY appreciate the links in the front of the PDF in the table of contents. They really help when you're looking up a rule quickly. Now, if only we could get links on the right page ribbons to jump directly to where you're looking for, that would make the PDF much quicker to reference than the physical book at the table for me.
znt wrote:
I'm with you on the single town kind of adventures. One of my favorite adventures back in the dark ages was Gamemastery W1, Conquest of Bloodsworn Vale. Part of it, I'm sure, is nostalgia. That adventure was the start of a wonderful campaign I was in, but the thing I most enjoyed was the play after the module ended. Our GM played it that we were given a kind of split control of the vale, with the local lord that was there at the beginning (I forget his name, it's been 10 years since I played in that group) managing civilian affairs while we managed military defense. We got a monthly stipend from merchants traveling through, set up patrols of hirelings with a series of watchtowers we built, and commanded the armies of the vale when a marauding horde of hobgoblins invaded from the mountains to the north. We built a keep to defend against them using the rules from Stronghold Builder's Guidebook of the 3.5 era, and spent a lot of downtime there training, crafting and roleplaying. We were also local celebrities. We participated in archery tournaments with notables of the area, hosted parties to influence the local landowners, and dealt with the fallout of the miller's son falling in love with the pond nymph who lived in the millpond, though I think he might have stolen that last bit from another adventure. Kingmaker scratched a lot of the same itch for me, but it was too...grand a scale for what I remembered. We spent too much time worrying about the Kingdom as a whole to worry about a tiny corner of it like we did with the Bloodsworn Vale. In a smaller setting like that we were able to name the guardsmen we had working with us, or sit and smoke a pipe with our librarian some cold winter night. I'd love to see an adventure path like that, maybe spread over several years of in-game time. Something where you can just exist in the world and make it yours. Not sure how feasible it would be to write it all out, I'm sure a lot of it was strictly ad-libbed, but it would be fun to see it.
BobTheArchmage wrote: Given that the AP is (presumably) 1-10 and is called "Hellbreakers", I assume it is going to have something to do with the Hellbreaker's League in Isger that was mentioned on page 92 in War of Immortals. *Somewhere behind the scenes in Paizo* "Dangit, they weren't supposed to figure that out yet!"
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I'll throw my hat in the ring to say this would help a lot for me also. Especially in influence sections, I'll spend some time making what I call an influence board for VTTs- a large scene setting image to one side and a series of frames to one side showing the NPCs the players can be talking to. The players move their tokens to who they're talking to for each round, and it enables me to track influence points and actions easily in a very visual format. The hardest part of making the board is finding good art for the scene setting.
zimmerwald1915 wrote:
You could even do it as a hardcover module. To beat the drum again, perhaps a 1-3 module about joining the Eagle Knights of Andoran followed by a Cheliax vs Andoran AP from 4-14, similar to how Rusthenge and Seven Dooms fit together.
Tridus wrote:
Just want to highlight this for visibility. I've been doing organized play as a way to meet new people with similar interests and I'm willing to put up with the rules because of it, but it's exhausting to track everything down. Especially now that I'm starting to play around with running games and reporting them, bringing new players in can be a little rough. I'm a bit of an old grognard in my way and I really miss the collected PDF guide. I wish we could get a PDF guide to organized play including options and a PDF errata guide that so I can hand it out and say 'Here you go, read this and you're set!'
mikeawmids wrote:
Oh the Gladiator one sounds like fun! Don't think Paizo would do that now that they have abolished slavery across the inner sea and and are not mentioning it elsewhere, but I may have to homebrew it.
The last time I played a magus was in a 1-20 Free Archetype conversion of the Hell's Rebels 1e AP. Herod was an Aiuvarin sparkling targe magus, but that was not 100% the core of his identity. I leaned heavily on the Champion Archetype with the Paladin (at that time, Justice today) cause, follower of Ragathiel. That gave me heavy armor, an awesome spammable focus spell (deity's domain, fire), spot healing (lay on hands), and a great reaction by level 8, after sacrificing a few class feats to get extra champion abilities. At 8, I picked up the Psychic Archetype and took the message cantrip. I also specced into the Investigator archetype (via Multitalented at 9), and picked up devise a stratagem as a bootleg true strike before making those big hits. (Free Action DaS for the win!) Later on I wound up spending most of his class feats boosting spellcasting through psychic, and the Champion line to pick up handy things to go with his reactions. He was all about big fiery hits and wound up playing more like a champion than a magus, with the ability for a really big smite. Herod was a lot of fun to play and really struck fear into the hearts of Thrune loyalists, but he really didn't play like a typical magus in a lot of ways. I always spent a round or two at the beginning of combat getting ready before making my first spell strike, and may only make one or two per combat. I would agree that there are some limitations on the current magus, but where I felt it the most was arcane cascade. I had left Intelligence at 10 and focused on Charisma instead, but that meant I really didn't cast any spells directly at enemies anymore, and buff spells for arcane are few and far between. I wound up using either an amped message cantrip (allowing one of my allies to move or attack) or lay on hands as a way to leave an action for myself to activate it. I would prefer to see the wording required for activation to be either 'You are in combat' or 'You have cast a spell or used spell strike this combat'. Another issue, as you can see from the number of archetypes I had, was there were a lot of levels where I just didn't feel there were any feats good enough to justify their use. Swapping out class feats for more archetype feats should feel like a big decision, but the magus made it easy a lot of the time, and not just for flavor reasons. I'm not a designer, but if I were changing things I'd look at doubling the arcane cascade damage bonus, to +2, +4, and +6 damage respectively, without majorly impacting the power of the class, but making it more worth it to spend a turn triggering the cascade instead of doing something else useful. I would also be tempted to improve the class feats a bit, to make them more of a must-take. Some action compression with feats, blending skills with spell strike recharge like Magus' Analysis or adding riders based on the Hybrid Study would help. For example, a nice feat that I often wished existed was something to raise a shield and recharge a spell strike or enter arcane cascade at the same time. All in all, I would say that the class is a great chassis to work with. High level spells give you a lot of versatility and spell strikes can be BIG damage boosts, especially if you know you're going to roll a Nat 20 on the boss. Hopefully the pain points can be smoothed over in another pass.
I guess I'm in the minority. I appreciated the baseball references, though I could see where it would be confusing out of the US. I'm playing a 6th level Silent Whisper Psychic in a Gatewalkers campaign and I certainly don't feel underpowered, even though I'm playing against the caster meta. One spell you might bring up for the psychic in particular and occult in general is 'Biting Words'. It doesn't benefit from Unleash Psyche but it is a wonderful 3rd action spell. My typical start of combat is move away from danger and cast Biting Words on the first round of combat, unleash psyche at the start of the second round and cast Shatter Mind, hopefully catching all the enemies in the area, then use the single action activation of biting words as a third action. Great for picking off low HP enemies or trying to whittle down some HP on the boss, though generally I find I do more good on 'boss' monsters (PL +3-4) using gathered lore to aid our fighter in his first attack.
James Jacobs wrote:
I for one am hoping that data becomes public, at least in broad strokes. Makes my inner data scientist happy. I do understand, though, that it's not your decision. Here's to hoping!
So, I would agree with other comments here that a direct sequel sounds like the 6 part AP under another name. Not a bad thing, but books in the same AP can already be a bit disjointed, so I can only imagine what it would look like with two separate teams working possibly years apart. Indirect sequels can be a lot of fun, but they strike me as hard to do well. The characters in the APs could have done any one of a half dozen or more different things and having to account for all of that...it leads to a bit of dilution. Curtain Call worked well from a readthrough perspective because it is all about the previous AP, but I don't think I would like that as a regular thing. My personal preference would be to see APs set in specific regions, or around specific themes, without having to be a direct sequel. For instance, let's take a hypothetical AP around a group of PCs being a group of Eagle Knights in service of Andoran, who go around the inner sea poking Cheliax in the eye before finally defeating a corrupt governor and ending their adventure at tenth level. This one could be a bit campy, a bit Saturday Morning Cartoon with a small group and slightly comical villains. The next AP set in Andoran starts with a war between Cheliax and Andoran, and in the beginning of the AP mention is made that one of the reasons might be the actions of the PCs in the previous AP, but it might be any one of a half dozen reasons as well. So, the players could pick up the second AP as a group of 10th level patriots or mercenaries who come to join Andoran's plight, or they might be the same group of Eagle Knights from before. Tone is darker here, and the stakes are certainly higher. Both stories have a beginning and an ending that could link together, or could be separate. I'll edit to say that I think this might also be a good place to look at the adventure line, especially with the new anthologies. A short 'bridge' adventure to bring the heroes to Absalom and then a second short bridge adventure to take the heroes from Absalom to a new AP may be a good way to mesh disparate APs. The key there I think would be to have a way to move the heroes to and from a common location, so it all meshes together.
So, I'm pretty hyped for this one. One of the things I really liked for 3.5e/1e was the sheer number of short adventures available in Dungeon Magazine and the short modules produced by WotC and Paizo. It allowed me to easily built a sandbox by dropping leads/rumors/wanted posters to half a dozen short adventures as rumors in the local tavern/guildhall and letting my players decide which way they wanted to go. I've been using Society scenarios, but they're typically a little short for what I'm looking for. Here's to hoping many more of these are made.
I really want to like Demiplane/Nexus, but I keep bouncing off because of a lack of mobile/tablet app, lack of foundry integration, and cost. I've bought a couple of Lost Omens books on there and I enjoy them for reading on my phone and iPad mini over a pdf, but my mobile connection can be spotty with my phone and I'm not always sitting somewhere with wifi when I read on the tablet. Part of the reason I picked up a mini vs. a full size is the ability to sit in a park somewhere and read. There's also the fact that my LFGS doesn't have wifi in the shop, meaning everything has to be done locally. My players and I all play in foundry these days, so lack of integration there makes it difficult to justify paying for rulebooks again, for a service that doesn't allow them to be used easily. I could see paying for it if these issues are fixed, but for now I guess I'm sticking to .pdfs. |
