Neocrates2K's page

Neocrates2K wrote:

The CSW is pretty useless in combat due to the "2 standard actions that both provoke" thing.

How does CSW provoke twice?

Once when you drink the Extract and once when you drink the potion.

Mike- I didn't realize that you could use these with elixers. I'll have to read up on those.

Belafon- I'm not saying that it is completely useless. It's just that the PFS rules remove it's viability as a combat buff and severely gimps it's use outside of combat due to durations.

Sabastian- Yeah, and there is a discovery that doubles the duration of potions. The problem is that you really need both discoveries to make AA shine and there are much better discoveries no matter what your Alchemist play style.

It is what it is and I will use it for the Remove X potions. Thanks to everyone for the input.

Hex Ward, Invigorate, Mage Armor, Pass without Trace, Lesser Restoration, Sanctuary, Shield of Faith, Youthful Appearance, Bestow Grace....

I could go on, and of course some of these will be better at a higher CL, but the spell offers quite a bit of versatility.

Versatile yes. Useful- rarely. Spending 2 standard actions that provoke in combat is never useful.

Buying and carrying around a potion for a situational level 1 spell that costs you a level 2 extract and 2 provoking standard actions- also never useful. Forgo the opportunity or buy a wand.

Buy 4 potions of resist energy 10 (one for each type), or just make a resist energy extract in that AA slot. The extract will be at your CL, so it will last longer, you get to type it when you drink it, and it will do more then 10 as you level.

I see your point that it provides flexibility and gives you options outside the class. But carrying around a large sack full of rarely useful low-level items that are extremely difficult to use- it just isn't very practical.

Alright- I'm going to take this as settled with the "minimum caster level for the SPELL" ruling. That makes sense, but I really wish I hadn't picked AA as my first level 2 extract. :(

One thing though- does anyone know why this restriction is in place? If your Fame level is high enough to buy really powerful magic weapons, armor, and wondrous items- why are you still limited to gimped potions, wands, and scrolls?

Is it because they are cheap relative to items that generate the effects permanently? It seems that could be solved by only making items available at your character level or lower, altering the formula to make high level P/W/S cost a lot more, or setting a separate Fame threshold for non-minimum. As it is, the restriction seems a bit arbitrary.

I'll give you Heroism- that may be the one exception since it is 50 min. Fly isn't very practical since it takes 2 rounds to spin up and is so short lived. WW and WB are almost never needed and there are typically potions of it lying around if it is really needed for the scenario.

So, I just compared the potion list to the Extract Formula list. It looks like the "Remove" spells are the only thing on the list worth using AA for. Everything else is better when used from a wand or available as an actual Extract (so, higher CL, better benefits, and better action economy.)

I understand that you don't want a Hyde alchemist getting Barkskin +5 and multiple Greater Magic Fang +5, but the potion rules to prevent that make this a really hard nerf to AA. I would rather see something like "in PFS you can only have one effect from a AA potion at a time." That would stop OP Hyde builds without gimping the other alchemists. Just my 2 cents.

Would a Cure Critical Wounds Wand be cheaper then using Alchemical Allocation? How about a Lesser Restoration Wand? Remove Disease? Restoration?

You can only buy potions where the spell level is 3 or less, so no restoration. You can cure disease/curse/poison for 150 Gp or 1 PP after the adventure. The CSW is pretty useless in combat due to the "2 standard actions that both provoke" thing.

Out of combat, my CLW extracts and CLW wand are better for topping me off.

So again- seems only useful to "get rid of a bad thing between fights".

I know there are discoveries that can help here, but those are limited. Alchemists are already saddled with the infusion tax if they want to help anyone else and this just turns into additional taxes that have to be paid if you want to use AA in a PFS game.

How is it unreasonably good? As far as I can tell, it is pretty worthless in combat with the PFS rules. A Wand would be better for any level 1 spell and burning a level 2 extract (which you don't get till level 4) to emulate a low level wizard/cleric spell is very underwhelming. Especially given the limited selection of viable spells. It only seems useful for fixing bad conditions out of combat (lesser restoration, remove curse, remove disease, etc.) 30 min sounds like a long time, but there are too many parties where people do things like take 20 on perception for every single square they walk in.

I have an Alchemist that just acquired 2nd level extracts, and I am contemplating the uses and limits of Alchemical Allocation. PFS rules require that you buy potions at minimum caster level, but is that for the spell or the effect?

For instance, could I buy a Barkskin +5 potion? Barkskin the spell can be cast by a Druid of 3rd level, so the minimum would be a +2 bonus for 30 Min. On the loot tables though, there is an entry for Potion of Barkskin +5 with a minimum caster level of 12. This is true of all spells that have a level based progression- the spell appears in multiple potions with different +X in the name. So, is it legal to buy a "Potion of Barkskin +5" at the minimum caster level (12), or would I be limited to a "Potion of Barkskin" at CL 3? I have seen a lot of arguments on this in the forums, but no real answer.

My guess is that I'll be stuck with the CL3 version, but that makes this ability pretty crappy in PFS. I would have to spend 2 rounds and a level 2 extract slot to get a really low powered and low duration effect. I would also risk provoking for both the extract and the potion.