Mitth'raw'nuru's page

Once you hit level 5 spells, use persistent image to drop a beat. Heck, even create a stage with a band. Then use mass suggestion to get everyone in a 30 foot radius to dance to something like "Jump Around", while you shout, "Jump! Jump! Jump! Jump!" Hehehehe.

I did not read the forum rules before posting and I literally did everything they said not to do, so I will be taking my discussion elsewhere as this is not the place for it.

I thought this was a place for open forum debates on rulings, but it is actually a place for inquiries to determine what is the official ruling by Paizo. Thus, FAQ and Errata do hold the final say.

Incidentally, I do go by FAQ rules, I just like to explore and discuss other interpretations and inconsistencies as a personal hobby (not just D&D rules but everything in life).

Ah okay. I did not know that. If it's discussed by the design team, then there's more substantial credibility for each answer in the FAQ.

I and other people (including my DM) at my table have just found that certain team member's answers (not going to name names) to certain questions have not consistently made sense with other rules.

Like Dragon Form depending on Sorcerer Levels. At our table, of course we let bards use their DD levels to determine duration (it would be unfair otherwise), but that's not the way it's written.

lol, so hostile. Calm down bro.

You could also read it the other way, your sorcerer level is your character level -2. Then you have a "sorcerer level" that can be treated as 4 levels higher.

The same can be said for the Robe of Arcane Heritage, that it's not referencing the Sorcerer Bloodline class feature.

When a sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching pulls itself apart and reweaves to match her particular sorcerer bloodline.

Either way, if a non sorcerer dons a robe of arcane heritage, the stitching does not reweave. So having a bloodline or not doesn't affect the next line that you treat your sorcerer level as 4 higher to determine the effects of bloodline powers.

Improved Eldritch Heritage

The power of your discovered bloodline continues to grow.

This phrasing would suggest that you did get a bloodline.

Build: Scaled Fist 1/Paladin 2/Juggler Bard 17

Alignment: Lawful Good

Stats: Cha > Dex > Con > Dump Wis, Int, Str

Feats: Dodge, Osyluth's Guile, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Spell Focus Enchantment

Skills: All Face Skills, Acrobatics, Perform (Singing and Dancing)

Build Highlights:

Cha to AC multiple times (Scaled Fist, Smite, Osyluth's Guile)
Cha to Saves
Evasion/Improved Evasion/Snatch Arrows

Build Concept:

Dance around the battlefield in a loin cloth, using Bard Songs Fascinate/Suggestion to invite enemies to dance with you singing all your favorite songs: I'm too sexy, Doncha, I feel pretty, etc. I imagine some skinny male flexing his nonexistent muscles, but it could work for a female character too.

Bonus: If you want to work in Seductive Channel, you can go to Paladin 4, but you would be giving up 6th level spells.

lol, so the FAQ text wins. Which pretty much means Dragon Form is a useless ability. Everyone wins!

Edit to add: not sure why I am bothering, neither side is going to budge (in one case because it is correct), and neither side is at the same table as I am, so it no one's opinion will actually impact anyone else anyway.

My DM actually interpreted it similar to how Diego Rossi interpreted it in that Dragon Form is treated as a bloodline power. He said that Dragon Bite, Dragon Breath, and Wings were all either bloodline powers or based on bloodline powers and so it makes sense to treat Dragon Form as a bloodline power. Which I have no qualms with. Which mean things like Robe of Arcane Heritage and Mythic Bloodline add a total of +8 to effective sorcerer level of bloodline powers.

But I still think my interpretation is correct. So you get 2 more bloodline feats than you'd originally get. That's not gamebreaking. There's only 4 really good feats in draconic bloodline anyway.

I don't blindly take what FAQ writers say as what goes. If something doesn't make sense, they have to change the wording. Otherwise when they say "explicitly says" they're lying.

I found something I can willfully misinterpret (that I don't want to be true), therefore this other thing that I can willfully misinterpret (that I do want to be true) must be true.

Think I'm done with this thread.

Great, then you agree that you have the wrong interpretation. Bye then.

lol Robes of Arcane Heritage explicitly says for the purpose of determining what bloodline powers whereas blood of dragons says powers gained from his bloodline which are two different ways of phrasing. In fact in the very next sentence, they use the phrasing bloodline powers for classes other than sorcerer (and bloodrager).

The terminology is similar enough to the quote from the sorcerer bloodline entry powers that a sorcerer can draw upon that I would conclude that it's referring to all the abilities gained from a bloodline.

We all get that you want to double the bloodline feats you get

I don't think Belafor got it at first. He thought I was just arguing about Dragon Form to point out that there was an error in the class description, when my goal was to point out if one ruling sounds ridiculous, then it might be wrong and thus the other ruling is the correct interpretation.

"Would have been clearer" doesn't mean "let's change the rule", it means what it says: it "would have been clearer" to use a more explicative text.

But what I'm saying is the text is clear as it is, that blood of dragons adds to sorcerer levels for determining the powers that a sorcerer can draw upon. Including feats.

The case I'm trying to argue for, is that dragon disciple levels add to your sorcerer levels in terms of abilities gained from the bloodline. Including bloodline feats.

lol, you're adding text in your argument that isn't there, and you're saying my argument doesn't hold water?

Writing "for his draconic bloodline powers" would have been clearer, but your argument that the Dragon disciple should get the feats because he otherwise has a very short duration for Dragon form doesn't hold water.

But it doesn't say that does it? So according to the text bards and eldritch scions who enter dragon disciple have a useless Dragon Form ability.

Also the phrase, powers gained from his bloodline doesn't necessarily just mean bloodline powers.

The following bloodlines represent only some of the possible sources of power that a sorcerer can draw upon. Unless otherwise noted, most sorcerers are assumed to have the arcane bloodline.

This specific quote from the sorcerer class bloodline entry isn't just for bloodline powers, but all abilities granted through a specific bloodline's description. Yet, they still use the verbage of power from a bloodline that a sorcerer can draw upon.

But according to Diego, blood of dragons only pertains to bloodline powers and bloodline spells. Neither of which Dragon Form (Sp) is which is a class feature.

Then Dragon form nets you 1 min duration until you gain more sorcerer levels. Not to mention other classes that enter Dragon Disciple get 0 min durations. What a weak capstone ability.

Dragon Form (Sp)

At 7th level, a dragon disciple can assume the form of a dragon. This ability works like form of the dragon I. At 10th level, this ability functions as form of the dragon II and the dragon disciple can use this ability twice per day. His caster level for this effect is equal to his effective sorcerer levels for his draconic bloodline. Whenever he casts form of the dragon, he must assume the form of a dragon of the same type as his bloodline.

If blood of dragons only adds to sorcerer level for bloodline powers, then a Paladin 4/Sorc1/Dragon Disciple 7 would have an effective sorcerer level of 1, and thus only be able to use Dragon Form for 1 min/day.

Otherwise, if blood of dragons added to sorcerer level of the bloodline, then the above character would get 8 min/day of Dragon Form. If blood of dragons adds to sorcerer level of the bloodline, it follows that all other bloodline bonuses would progress as well including feats, spells, and powers.