Last note before I push off and leave this to be torn to pieces: The combat adjustment I described earlier and tried to implement involved redefining mostly the defensive element of combat. I always thought there was a terrible waste that PC's could very rarely (without the use of spells) achieve a high enough DR value to actually make it more than truly a waste of time. Barbarian could only receive DR 4-8 if they really really tried and PrC'd. I wanted a class defensively designed not to have the binary hit-or-miss nature of AC, but to incorporate some of the ideas behind the "AC as DR" variants without disrupting or changing the whole game system. However, I hit a brick wall in that pathfinder enemies hit hard. So, besides just the scaling of the AC, I also wanted to include the re-introduction of the healing mechanic from 3.5's wild shape (in Wild Form above but basically involves healing equivalent to rest when shifting). This ability really seemed to dovetail nicely as this class is really designed with the mindset of a character shifting multiple times per fight and, while able to take a few hits now and then, isn't quite as beefy as a pure fighter/barb/cav/paladin archetype. The simple idea that flexibility (shifting) is payed for by survivability (Among many other balance points). Another point of this was to try and reduce the ridiculousness of AC stacking considering that the MoMF can gain the Nat Armor of its new form and could (with the properly enchanted armor) stack full AC bonuses from Armor onto some pretty tanky forms (looking at you bulette, earth elemental, Giant Crab, etc). So, I settled the numbers where they are with a concern for their appropriate-ness. I am interested to hear your ideas and responses so thanks again for reading this far and I hope to get some feedback soon!
Some material is copy/pasted from the PFSRD and the d20SRD and I believe is available for use. I will be happy to adjust the format and descriptions if this is not true. I do not intend to sell or otherwise profit from any IP I may have quoted here. (IDK if this is necessary or not or if I have put something here that I shouldn't have but the mods can let me know if I have.) Master of Many Forms: BAB: Full
Level:
Class Ability Descriptions: Track (Ex)
Wild Empathy (Ex)
Minor Animal Aspect (Su): Duration: Uses/day = Class Level + Wis
Minor (1 use): +10 land speed (1 round)
Lesser (2 uses):
Major (3 uses)
Aspect of the Beast: Also may be used/maintained during Wild Shape Eternal Aspect – Pick one aspect at the start of every day and it's duration lasts 24 hours with no expenditure of Aspect Points Beastkin (Ex)
Combat Style Feat (Ex)
Woodland Stride (Ex)
Favored Terrain (Ex)
Shifter's Speech (Ex): A master of many forms maintains her ability to speak normally (including verbal components of spells) regardless of the form she takes. Furthermore, she can communicate with other creatures of the same kind while in wild shape, as long as such creatures are normally capable of communicating with each other using natural methods.
Alternate Form
Improved Wild Form: Starting at level 4, the Wild Form ability gains more flexibility in the forms that may be shifted into. Each new creature subtype and size category is additive to the options presented under the ability and do not replace or alter the capability of the Master of Many Forms to use the forms allowed by the original or previous Improved Wild Form abilities. Fast Wild Form: At level 6, the Master of Many Forms may use its Wild Form ability as a move action rather than as a standard. At level 11, he/she also has the option of using it as a swift action. At level 18, he/she may use Wild Form as a free action once per round. Evershifting Form: A 20th-level master of many forms has reached the pinnacle of her shapechanging abilities. She gains the shapechanger subtype and becomes immune to any transmutation effect unless she is willing to accept it.
Hey guys! Let's cut to the quick. If you don't care about design philosophy or goals, skip all of this Wall of Text with the TL:DR version of: Scaling, Non-Spellcasting Shapeshifter. Mashup of Druid, Ranger, and Barbarian PF classes For those of you who care:
So, to that end, I had a few major goals to start: 1. Create a class that involved the progression of shapeshifting abilities found in 3.5 MoMF (shifting into an ever growing list of subtypes (vermin, giant, ooze, dragon, etc) and sizes 2. Drop Spellcasting - MoMF archetypes and even the 3.5 prestige class implied druid progression into it. There was also the option of a ranger variant that traded animal companion for Wild Shape in 3.5 and I decided to pursue this for 2 major reasons: 1. The original PrC idea didn't scale any spellcasting. This meant that druids who PrC'd into it cast as a 5th level druid all the way to 15th level at which point it was a moot point most of the time outside of some corner cases involving self-buffing. 2. Scaling a spell list with this class without gutting the shapeshifting was very much OP. In order to focus on the Shapeshifting as the key mechanic and treating this as a base class, even using a shorter spell list such as a "Druidic Paladin" might use still left the class far too many options at mid to high levels. Shapeshifting into such a wide variety of things so often is powerful and opens as many options as the GM allows sourcebooks for monster entries and there are some incredibly good monsters to change into. From there, I worked on several things before coming to two realizations: 1. The Beast Shape Spell reference in PF's Wild Shape did not reflect or allow for the same flexibility of shifting as 3.5 and it was seriously hampering the class. To that point, I basically had to create a new "Wild Shape" class ability that encompassed a few key points from 3.5's. 2. I wanted to make this character feel distinctly different from the other melee characters in the game in terms of combat presence and capability. Offensively, you are a crazy-flexible shifter who develops the ability to shift rapidly through forms as the situations warrant. Second, defensively, you are not armored. I won't go into a huge treatise about the design thought for this but I will add a note at the end and encourage you to look at the Beastkin class ability as well as the return of healing to the process of Wild Shaping. Ok so enough of my rambling, next post is the class and ability descriptors if it will all fit in one post effectively. Enjoy the class and thanks for reading this far! I am seriously looking to have the balance of the class examined and I am very willing to tweak the ideas within it to try and make the balance points more stable. The design goals are important to me unless they are unbalanceable. If that is what you think, I would very much like to hear a more detailed reason why because it will help show me a specific of the system I may not understand fully. Anyway, enjoy.
Thank you all and I appreciate the overwhelming feedback as well as the reference to the Magister class. I also apologize for my ignorance in posting in the wrong place. I was definitely going to not allow the classes to work in the way he was suggesting but understanding the precedents and relevant issues is very much appreciated. I will probably give him the Magister option if he wants but I doubt he will as it definitely lacks the more exploitative nature of the build he has created. Thanks again and enjoy again!
James Risner wrote: They need more than 1 level of Wizard unless you are allowing early entrance via SLA? I'm not sure if that is true based on the fact that the theurge satisfies prereqs for both the arcane and divine in theory. The only reason for the 1 lvl of wizard for him is arcane bond, school spec and having a "target" for the "existing arcane school" level bonus. He wants the class abilities plus I don't think he wants to argue that he can get 2 simultaneous progressions in the theurge casting (by choosing it for both the +arcane lvls and the +divine levels from the PRC)
Hey guys, first post as I have seen nothing referencing this type of ruling. I have a player who wants to multi-class 4 Theurge base class and 1 lvl of wizard before going 3 levels into Mystic Theurge PRC. As I am understanding it, he is choosing his Theurge class as his "existing divine spellcasting class" and the wizard as his wizard levels as "existing arcane spellcasting class." For those of you who need it, here is a link to the Kobold Press base class: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/kobold-press-open-design/ theurge I am wondering exactly how this works with regards to spell slots. The Theurge's slots are split specifically between arcane and divine but they both progress over time. This seems to show that he would gain the obvious wizard progression but also more arcane slots from Theurge. More relevantly interesting is the idea that he is getting double his INT bonus to casting slots as well because of the interaction with the split casting ability. The main question is, does anyone think this is an inherent balance problem and, secondarily, does anyone see a rules conflict with how these class abilities interact? Thanks! |