Heimdall666: In addition to identifying the balance point in magic-item creation - party wealth and the nebulous "magical supplies"/materials - another house rule you and your fellow DMs may wish to consider is one derived from Shadowrun (SR), i.e., "foci" limits with or without "foci addiction". As you may not be familiar with that system, I'll explain.
In SR 4th Ed, a magician is limited in the number and total power of foci (magic items) they can use. IIRC, it's a function of Intelligence and Magic, an attribute that doesn't directly correlate to PF. How I have personally adapted this to my RoTR campaign is to institute a rule that a character cannot use any item with a caster level greater than their character level + CHAMf and the total caster levels of all permanent, non-charged, non-intelligent items may not exceed (LVL+1)*(CHA+1).
(This - at least in theory - quashes players like myself that purchase 6-12 cracked ioun stones as soon as I can get my munchkinny hands on them).
Apologies if this specific topic has been addressed before/elsewhere.
Like some of you, I absolutely despise the Vancian nature of certain spellcasting classes, and I am soliciting comments as to what I see as a reasonable answer to my "problem", i.e., adapting the spell/conjuring drain and spell sustaining mechanics of 3rd or 4th Edition Shadowrun to Pathfinder.
Because Pathfinder does not use Shadowrun's wound modifiers (drain) or die pool modifiers (sustain), my initial thoughts are to couple the drain and sustain mechanics to a corresponding pool of points, conceptually similar to the 3rd Edition D&D psionic power point mechanic. Refresh rates would be specific to a particular pool (e.g., Sustaining Pool would refresh at the rate of 1 point per minute, Drain Pool at the rate of 1 point per hour).
Anyone use or try anything like this? Are there any "big picture" issues that I should be aware of?
Although perhaps not directly related to "creeper" behavior, I can attest that there are times when gamers can cross the line in many ways. In the first or second year of the Living Greyhawk campaign, I roleplayed a kobold so annoyingly that one player - playing a thuggish fighter type - got up from the table, stood behind me, and - while in-character - proceeded to strangle me while telling me (as the kobold) that I was going to tell the wizard everything he wanted to know.
And I did :)
While I am not eager to repeat the experience, I consider it one of my finest GM'ing performances of my life.
As someone who is also working out ideas/tinkering with the "Vancian" magic system that I so despise, the first area I would look at is how the cleric and wizard spell lists (by far the most extensive of the divine and arcane lists, respectively) interact witb a druid using wildshaping for hours on end. Also take a look at personal spells, and keep an eye on the ranger's spell list.
Some forms that I and other druid players have used and abused over the years that may be particularly relevant to your analysis include: air elemental, earth elemental, behemoth hippopotamus, squid, dire ape, tendriculous, and bat (for summoner type druids that emphasize Stealth, you'd be unlikely to see them and they can just unload all sorts of fun with a combined spell list; e.g., 5-10 hasted Lantern Archons can take out a dragon).
Having played since 2nd Edition D&D, I have found that the natural reaction is that many players and GMs visualize clerics casting fireballs or mages using heal spells and have a visceral reaction to it. However, my experience has been that it is not damage dealing that breaks the game because it's always easy to add more HP or opponents. It's the non-damaging stuff (e.g., wall of thorns/black tentacles/solid fog; astral projection; commune; etc) that tends to break the game.
Of course, I also really enjoy Shadowrun - a game with "combined spell lists" and where magicians can astrally project at will - and it is very influential to my thinking. To the extent that you might find it applicable, I would encourage you to look into how Shadowrun addresses magician's "class" as a tradition (i.e., a belief system that governs how a character believes magic works and how magic should be used, but does not impact how magic actually works and how it is accessed).
For what it's worth, I thought I would add my comments on this topic. Compared to many players I have not played a lot of scenarios, though I have had the pleasure of playing several sanctioned modules under the the "build your own PC" rules and - "Godmouth Heresy" aside - "The Harrowing" and "Cult of the Ebon Destroyers" were two of my four favorite games (along with "Midnight Mauler" and "Frostfur Captives"). I have not played a sanctioned module with a Paizo pregenerated character, though I have played a pre-gen (Valeros) in one game.
What I particularly enjoyed about the "build your own PC" (BYOPC) rule is the ability to preview my character's higher-level build over the course of a twelve-hour scenario as well as try out the utility of consumables (e.g., Oil of Slipperiness) and mundane items (e.g., Bear Traps) that I otherwise would probably not purchase with my regular character. This is particularly true for some character concepts that I think would be fun to roleplay, but really question whether they work in higher level combats. I'd like to "test-drive the car" before purchasing it, especially before putting a lot of miles on it and I don't want *Paizo's* car; I want *my* car.
I certainly understand the objections certain aspects of the BYOPC rules (e.g., consumables), though I have not seen any instance - in my limited play experience in this campaign - where players took their play experience less seriously because of a lack of emotional/time/other resource investment...perhaps if for no other reason that other players with "real" PCs were at the table and would frown upon, say, pulling three encounters at once (Oh wait, I *did* do that - though I hold Kyle Pratt and the module author responsible for tempting me with <spoiler omitted>!).
For me, BYOPC is a worthwhile return on my investment of time and money in view of the actual and/or possible shortcomings:
A. I have to play a character I did not design for 10+ hours...but a character I did design has to pay the consequences for the character I did not design. This is even more problematic given that - in many ways - the character itself dictates the style of play. For example, Valeros specializes in dual-wielding melee
B. The adventure is usually cut short because we run out of time resulting in less than maximum rewards;
C. The total possible fame gain is (or at least was) two-thirds of what I could earn for playing three scenarios; and
D. I might find myself sitting at a table for 10+ hours with one or more of 1) an module that is just awful ("Godsmouth Heresy" qualifies); 2) a GM that is so subpar that the experience is painful; and/or 3) one or more players that I could just do without.
In short, I appreciate that these rules allow me to participate in events that I otherwise could not, but I respectfully would like to see the BYOPC rule re-instituted and I do not support pre-gen to PC linkage. I am even receptive to the beneficiary PC receiving reduced gold or item rewards as a way of off-setting the actual and perceived shortcomings in the BYOPC rule.
I started work converting Smuggler's Shiv a few weeks ago to Neverwinter 1, placed in the classic Greyhawk world, pre Greyhawk wars. Don't look if you are playing or plan to play.
** spoiler omitted **
I'll preface my comment by saying that I am currently playing through the 3rd book in the series and I have been enjoying it immensely. I pretty much had the same ideas, though I thought maybe
Spoiler:
that the Horned Society or remnants thereof (depending on timeline) working through an alias/allied group (maybe out of Blue in the Pomarj) would be a good replacement for the Aspis Consortium. Although largely a group of Nerull-worshipping ne'er-do-wells, it seems to me based on my recollection of Andrade Mirrius' description in the CoG boxed set that the Heirarchs certainly see the value in having commercial/diversified operations. I also thought the Black Brotherhood and connection to Tharizdun (I think there's info in the Hold of Sea Princes entry in FtA) would be a good replacement for Ydersius. Beltar would probably work well too, though I obviously don't have as much insight into the totality of the series as you.
I also thought the boat could start in Hardby and go to one of the Wild Coast port cities, on to Blue, and then on to Gryrax, a Keoish port and Flotsam and/or Jetsom Island(s.
I personally think Keoland is a better substitute for Cheliax; you're having to change a bit of the story, but there's no reason that Eleder and those other cities couldn't have rebelled against Keoland especially since the Hold lies between them *and* the Hold was - prior to the Wars - a direct antagonist of Keoland and the Keoish navy. As an aside to some Living Greyhawk lore, it is not commonly known that the Hold of the Sea Princes was established as a result of the second(?) Keoish civil war; the losers took their ships and collective butts to the other side of the Hool Marshes. Eleder and the other cities of some far flung Keoish colony siding with the Sea Princes at some point would probably be a matter of survival based on geography.
I premise this question with my understanding that "death effects" are not unquestionably defined in the rules and that I think it's a fair reading of the entry on Death Attacks to take the position that "death attack or effect" implies that the two terms encompass different things, just as one could take the position that "attack" is synonymous with "effect".
Taking the former position, I think it's clear that certain spells, e.g., those with the [death] descriptor, are death attacks and/or death effects. In contrast, a shadow inflicts ability damage that is a negative energy effect, notwithstanding the fact that many creatures (e.g., constructs, undead) are immune to shadows. However, it seems to me that creatures like constructs and undead are only immune to shadows because of their immunity to ability damage, rather than their immunity to death attacks (and presumably effects).
Well, it's certainly not a death effect. I am curious, though, how you avoided becoming a Shadow. It should be a automatic thing after so many rounds, IIRC.
I think the GM may have erred on that one too, as the rules read "A humanoid creature killed by a shadow's Strength damage becomes a shadow under the control of its killer in 1d4 rounds"; however, the GM ruled
that as long as the Greater Shadow was killed before the clock ran out(which it was) my character would not spawn into a Shadow. I certainly don't read the entry that way, but neither I nor my fellow players are going to complain about such a interpretation - it's my personal view that spawning should occur about 1% of the time just to explain the lack of any "evil cleric/create greater undead/spawn a metropolis" scenario.
Regrettably, my 5 STR gnome ended up playing patty-cakes with a Greater Shadow earlier today. Although the character died, he did NOT turn into a shadow. The GM ruled that my character could not benefit from either Reincarnation or Raise Dead, and in the absence of some additional information I'm not aware of, I think this ruling was in error. While a shadow's Strength drain is a negative energy effect, it does not have the [death] descriptor (e.g., Finger of Death). Any thoughts in this regard? Thanks.
Our party plays 1 or 2 times a month for about a year now. We just hit 7th level and have just entered Saventh Yhi, and while we have some magic items and spellbooks, we have very little in terms of magic weapons and armor; most of what we have we purchased in Eleder or Kalabuto, and if I didn't have Craft Wondrous Item, we'd have very little of actual practical use. I'm just curious as to whether the situation improves...though specific examples are not appreciated for obvious reasons.
I'm also curious as far as how GMs deal with crafting given the distance of Tazion and Saventh-Yhi from Kalabuto and other sources of crafting resources - the dreaded and nebulous "magical components". I assume that once players get 5th and 6th level spells access isn't such a big deal, but since my character and his cohort are primarily designed for MIC it's a significant issue for me.
