Maergoth's page

Fortuitous seems like an interesting addition to some knuckles or something.

So let me make sure I've got this.

Encounter begins against two humans and a dog. I win Initiative. I should be able to run into a room past the first man, drawing an attack of opportunity. I use the snake style feat's immediate action to raise my ac with a sense Motive check. The opponent misses his attack, allowing me an attack of opportunity in retaliation (snake fang) assuming my attack hits, I'm allowed an immediate action follow up (snake fang) but I had already used my immediate action on the ac bonus so I can't do that.

The incoming attack of opportunity resolves and I retaliate (panther style) which is normally a swift action, which I wouldn't be able to do if I had used an immediate action the turn prior.. However it is a free Action thanks to panther claw, allowing me to retaliate a number of times equal to my wisdom modifier on my turn (panther claw). So I retaliate once per provocation, assuming it has the same rules as an attack of opportunity. I've now hit the opponent twice, once as an aoo(snake fang) , once as a counter attack (panther claw)

I move to the next target and cannot use snake style to sense Motive an ac bonus, having used an immediate already. He swings at me, and misses (wishful thinking). I retaliate with an attack of opportunity (snake fang, no immediate follow up) (combat reflexes for additional aoo per turn)
And then I hit him with an unarmed retaliation from panther claw, using my second of two retaliations this turn.

Move to the final target,and if I attempt a combat maneuver drawing an additional attack of opportunity, I would be able to counter attack again if I had enough wisdom mod. But I do not. Instead I simply aoo against his miss (wishful thinking) Using my third attack of opportunity(snake fang, no follow up) ,(combat reflexes allows me a total of 3) but out of retaliations from panther claw (wis mod +2)

Alternatively, I could just melee attack the last target instead of blowing my last attack of opportunity this turn, maintaining threat over surrounding space.

Does this sound like a mechanically sound exchange? And when would my retaliations, attacks of opportunity and immediate actions be returned to me? At the end of my turn or at the start of my next turn?

Sorry for the wall of text but I really do appreciate shedding some light on this complicated situation.

It's not an immediate action. It has an optional immediate component. From the way you described it, it sounded like you were implying that snake fang is one attack at most, because it's immediate. Snake fang is two, one is considered an aoo, and then an optional immediate follow up. I misunderstood what you were saying.

Panther claw turns counter attacks on attacks of opportunity on me from panther style into free actions and allows me to make as many counter attacks per turn as I have wisdom modifier.

As for the other parts, thanks for clarifying. Figuring out the nuances of the build and what does or doesn't stack in what capacity was a secondary purpose here. I'll probably make a new thread for that. Unless someone wants to check out panther style, panther claw, snake style, snake fang and see how they interact against missed attacks of opportunity.

Snake fang is not an immediate action, it is an attack of opportunity in response to a miss, and a follow up if that attack hits. So I'd be limited to one to two hits there, per miss, per round. So if I could get attack of opportunities on me repeatedly by the same target I'd get one to to free Hits per. Not including the two free Action retaliation per attack of opportunity against me, per my wisdom modifier.

Sound right?

Also if someone could tell me how this build would play that first scenario out, the number of attacks and the limitations per my Dex and Wis bonuses, that would be hugely helpful.

So, to preface this, I'm making a counter attack monk. Build is as follows.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1QWFtMAuOX6WHlVZ3VhU2Rlcm8

This is a two part question.

First, if i were to run into a room with two humans and a dog, running into and out of their threat areas in a row.. First guy swings at me because obviously. Why wouldn't he. My build would ideally snake style dodge the aoo, strike back with an aoo due to snake fang once or twice, and then counter attack (once or twice, that's a different question though.) and then move to the next guy who may think twice. Is he required to take that aoo? I imagine a dog, for Example, wouldn't consider withholding the aoo due to intelligence.

Second question. As a monk, I have unarmed mastery, so I do not provoke an aoo when melee attacking and my attacks are lethal. Can I intentionally draw an attack of opportunity unarmed? By feigning or something? If not, can I legally not take the class feature? Snake style makes my attacks piercing so they should be lethal regardless.

I know unarmed combat mastery is a prerequisite for the stances, but Master of Many styles allows me to bypass those prerequisites.

Lots of questions there, so thank you for reading. If the build has any fundamental flaws, I'd appreciate knowing as well.

Thank you.

Scratch that, further investigation cleared it up. I assume I could achieve this with Shadowbard, but no sooner.

Followup question:

Would "Exquisite Accompaniment" allow me to use two bardic performances simultaneously? Could I use the Lyric Sorrow version myself, and allow the magical instrument to play for the group?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/e/exquisite-accompaniment/

Got it. Thank you so much.

That doesn't explain the discrepancy in the wording. It reads as if the "benefit" would be the additional benefits of lyric sorrow, not the original benefit of inspire courage.

So this question refers to a specific aspect of Lyric Sorrow as posted here:

Sorrowsoul - Bard

At 1st level, a sorrowsoul can use his lyric sorrow in conjunction with inspire courage. When he chooses to do so, he increases his bonuses on saving throws and on weapon attack and damage rolls from +1 to +2, but his other allies receive no benefit. His bonuses when using lyric sorrow with inspire courage increase by 2 at 5th level and every 6 bard levels thereafter, to a maximum of +8 at 17th level.

After reading this, I thought that it was converting my inspire courage into a self-only buff at increased effectiveness and performance cost.

However, the other uses of Lyric Sorrow are worded differently.

At 12th level, a sorrowsoul can use his lyric sorrow ability in conjunction with inspire greatness to grant himself 3 bonus Hit Dice, a +3 competence bonus on attack rolls, and a +2 competence bonus on Fortitude saves; if he does so, inspire greatness only affects him, not any other allies.

At 15th level, a sorrowsoul can use his lyric sorrow ability in conjunction with the inspire heroics bardic performance. When using the lyric sorrow version of this performance, a sorrowsoul gains fast healing 5 and benefits from a 50% miss chance, as if under the effects of displacement, in addition to the standard bonuses conferred by this bardic performance, but if he does so, inspire heroics only affects him, not any other allies.

Those two modifiers SPECIFY that they do not apply to other allies, while the first usage only implies that allies do not benefit from the BONUSES. Those bonuses being the then-mentioned "bonuses when using lyric sorrow", but not the bonuses from the original inspire courage.

That would imply that beginning an inspire courage performance, in conjunction with lyric sorrow, will bestow bonuses to the Sorrowsoul alone WITHOUT removing the original effect from his party.

Is that the implication?

TL;DR Does Lyric Sorrow turn Inspire Courage into self-only?

I am the bard, and I've convinced the DM, but I want to be sure I'm not cheesing anything here.