M_Blackhand's page

Blahpers: there's nothing in AA that contradicts the Core Rules. All they did was add the Buoyancy entry. Hence, why I'm wondering if there was something official or at least guidance. I'm at a complete loss as to why such a simple rule should be disregarded by a GM.

Graystone: I get the consequences and the swim speed stuff. That's why I incorporated it into what I suggested. What I don't get is why players should be punished for not having a Swim speed while making a successful Swim Check. The rules certainly don't suggest this, so why should a GM think so.

And there in lies my dilemma, the GM is making grandiose statements, but not providing any examples. Myself and the other players are providing text and examples (including the messageboards), the GM just hand waves them and tells us that Aquatic adventures is a new rule set and that our examples have no bearing since they come from sources other than Aquatic Adventures. But again, Aquatic Adventures is just an expansion of the rules from the Core book and we're being told it's the latest and most current rule set and therefore the only source to be considered.

I mean, Aquatic Adventures states: The basics of the Swim skill are the same in an aquatic campaign. According to page 108 of the Core rulebook...

To me, that means nothing's changed in how the skill works and the GM agrees with that. And all of the text in Aquatic Adventures I find doesn't restrict the use of full-round or full attack actions. Based on everything I've read and other GMs I've talked to agree that there should be no reason a full attack should be disallowed just because you make a Swim check.

So to end this, my suggestion was as follows (and regarded as unrealistic and smacking of player favoritism):

Make a Swim check. On a successful roll, you may move 1/4 your base speed as a move action (as per the rules), 1/2 speed as a full-round action (as per the rules), or stay in place and make a full-round action, including a full attack. If the roll fails, you do not move, but may take a full-round action, including a full attack, but you are off-balance. If the roll fails by 5 or more, you sink or rise (as per buoyancy), you are off-balance, and become may be subject to holding your breath/drowning.

I don't see where any of this is overly beneficial to players and is based completely on the rules as set out by both the Core Rulebook and Aquatic Adventures. Yes, it is a little more clear than what is written in the Core Rules, but am I really that out of line thinking this is a fair interpretation of the rules?

My "combativeness" is more directed at my GM who is irritating me with his contradictions.

First, we've looked at the boards and have found the one post that talks about a Swim check being a free action. He agrees with this, but then states "Well, that was 2 years ago and Aquatic Adventures is a new rule set which supersedes the Core Rules." He also agrees that the Swim skill has not been changed by Aquatic Adventures, but "previous rulings are no longer valid." Also, as far as I know (and read in Aquatic Adventures) the supplement is an expansion and clarification of the rules in the Core book. So the Core book is still valid and the basis for all rules in the game.

Second,is the issue of swim check vs swim speed. The GM has stated improve your swim skill with feats and ranks, but you'll only ever be able to make full attack actions if you have a swim speed because it is otherwise too advantageous to the players to be allowed a full attack action. And it's physically impossible to tread water and make a Full Attack.

My group has been having a discussion on aquatic combat. Our DM is under the impression that Aquatic Adventures changes the rules from the Core Rulebook. We've found the post on the boards about swimming and full round actions suggesting that the Swim check is essentially a free action and on a successful check you can make a full attack action. The DM says no, that Aquatic Adventures changes that and that it should be considered a move action.

So what is the offical ruling on the Swim check? Does is cost no action as suggested on the boards and in the skill description and allows a full round action or is it some other action? I'm looking for an offical ruling by Paizo.

You're complaining because a feat's prerequisite feat doesn't make complete sense?

Whoo boy, that's a pretty large can of worms to open.

I wasn't arguing that the feat's prerequisites don't make sense, I'm more questioning why if the prerequisites require naming a specific weapon, the feat gives you access to the entire weapon group. As someone said, you can take rapid reload (pistols) and then take this feat. It's all legal, but poorly thought out or described.

What my issue with this feat is that for Rapid Reload, you have to pick a specific type of weapon (crossbow or firearm). So what the player is doing that I have an issue with in particular is that he's taken Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow) and now takes this feat and can reload a Heavy Crossbow as a free action. So just by taking one feat he's all of a sudden able to take a weapon from a full-round reload time to a free action? That to me makes no sense since a Heavy crossbow and a light crossbow are reloaded in completely different manners. So just because you're an expert in reloading a light crossbow does not make you an expert in other types of crossbows.

I've never really looked at doing a crossbow concept character, so I've never looked at the crossbow feats. However, I'm in a game where some is running a rogue based crossbow master. Now while I have no problem with the concept I'm a little irked with how the Crossbow Mastery feat seems to work for Heavy Crossbows. It seems to me that the feat is broken with respect to Heavy Crossbows.

Case in point, Heavy crossbows have a full-round action to reload, meaning you can only fire once every other round. With Rapid Reload (a requirement for Crossbow Mastery), that makes it a move action to reload allowing you to fire once a round. However, just by taking this feat you can all of a sudden reload as a Free Action with a Heavy Crossbow? I could see as a Swift action maybe, but not as a free. Likewise, I don't see how you can use the Rapid Shot feat (another requirement) with a Heavy Crossbow because of the reload time.

Is there an errata for this somewhere? I haven't seen anything official from Paizo and didn't see anything here in the forums. Or is this another example of Paizo thinking it sounded cool and forgot to check the rules and simply wrote an ambiguous description?