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I'm trying to figure out how touch spells work if there are more than one of them inside an item.

I am an Artificer and I just spent a ton of time putting multiple touch spells into an item (a glove, but it could have just as easily been an apple, bit of wood or soiled underclothes).

I have the effects of True Strike, Chill Touch, Inflict Light Wounds and Produce Flame all in this glove.

Normally (according to Touch Spells section) when you CAST another spell, the touch spell dissipates. If however, as an artificer, I don't actually cast spells and the item activates all spell effects at the same time then how does it go down?

Do I have to have a free hand to hold each touch spell OR do I combine the touch spells into one nasty effect?

Did I waste my time or did I create a touch spell effect that creates a nasty bluish flame that does a whole lot of hurting?

"An artificer is not a spellcaster, but instead possesses the ability to imbue items with magical power. This weird science allows the artificer to create devices that combine the effects of one or more spells, either arcane or divine."

I'd love any and all input.

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Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Touch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage. Your opponent's AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.

Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn."


Necromancer wrote:

(First question) Yes. Keep in mind that the HP loss would still occur.

(Second question) I see no reason why that shouldn't work. Some GMs might not allow it since both would be cast immediately (requiring the Hand to be in effect before using Chill Touch), but I wouldn't have a problem with it.

Thanks for the input, I shall use it to sway my GM.


Really? Is my question that uninteresting?

// wrists


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So let's pretend I have an item that has the following effects:

Spectral Hand http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/spectral-hand
Chill Touch http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/chill-touch

For argument's sake, the item is a necklace.

When I activate the item successfully with a UMD check.

Can I deliver the chill touch spell through the spectral hand?

Ok.. Now, if the item is created by Weird Science of an artificer. Do the same rules apply?


Ok, so I've done more searching and have created a rebuild that I think functions a bit better (and will hopefully get adopted by my GM as a house rule).

ARTIFICER REBUILD

Anything highlighted is additional text and anything with strikethrough is original text that has been removed.

I definitely added the +2 Fort Save (was +0 prior to the errata) because it doesn't make any damned sense to jump from 0 to +3 when you hit level 2.

Some stuff I would really like input on (though obviously any input on any part of it would be valuable):

1) I'm not sure of the Base Attack Bonuses (the Errata cripple them substantially compared to the Tome of Secrets) for now I have the Errata BAB in the re-write.

2) All other spellcasters have something to compare to for saves.

If I blast someone with

Inflict Light Wounds 1 Standard Instantaneous Touch 1d8 + 1/CL (Max +5) Will (half) When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

What do they have to compare their Will Save to?

For now I'm going to go the same route as a wizard and make it (10 + Spell Level + Artificer's Intelligence Mod at Time of Device Creation)

I have tried to balance and flesh out this class a bit more.

Let me know what you think!


CLARIFICATIONS:
The following are clarifications that I have gleaned from reading source texts. Feel free to comment on them and/or scream at me for being wrong.

A) Weird Science Creation Time for 0 Level Spells

Adding a 0 Level spell to an item takes 2 hrs.

Source: Tome of Secrets Pg 13: "The time to create such inventions is 4 hours per spell level used"
Source: Core Rulebook Pg 549: "O-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0-level spells should be treated as 1/2 level."

B) Access to spells for Weird Science

An Artificer can select from the following spell trees up to 4th level if he or she meets the CL prerequisites.

Sorcerer (arcane), Wizard (arcane), Cleric (divine) Druid (arcane), Bard (arcane), Paladin (divine), Witch (divine), Ranger (divine), Inquisitor (divine), Summoner (arcane)
(See Class Descriptions)

C) Number of Weird Science inventions

At level 1 an artificer can have 1 lvl 1 weird science invention (ToS: Table: The Artificer Pg 12).

There is no restriction that I can find on 0 level spell items so I think it could go one of the following ways:

a) Someone expands the table to include 0 level weird science inventions.

Possibly just mirroring the level 1 item amounts.

b) 2x 0 level inventions = 1x 1 level invention.

Example: As a Level 2 Artificer I can have either:
1 invention where the highest spell inside it is level 1
or
2 inventions where the highest spell inside it is a level 0.

Source: Core Rulebook Pg 549: "O-Level Spells: When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0-level spells should be treated as 1/2 level."

D) Maximum number of spells in a Weird Science invention.

In a WS inventionwith a spell level cap of X, you should be able to apply as many X level spells to that single WS invention as you see fit.

Crafting time as well as the increased failure rate (after the allotted number of problem free uses) and the fact that all spells trigger at once should help to nerf someone from throwing EVERY level X spell into a single item.

E) Sharing/Selling Weird Science items and the effect on the WS invention cap.

Couldn't find much info on this so I'll take a stab.

An Artificer must never at any one time exceed the number of Weird Science Invetions as allotted by the table on ToS page 12.

If an artificer chooses, he can part with an item (either by giving it away or selling it). At that time, the item no longer counts against the WS Inventions number.

As an additional deterrent to abusing this (by having someone else carry a massive bag of WS inventions that you can trade out and use at will) the following rules would apply.

An artificer who gives up a WS invention (through sale, loan, theft or otherwise) loses his inherent connection to the item and must use the item as though it was crafted by another artificer. This would negate the free 'reliable uses' on the item. If the Artificer regains possession of the item and has it on his person for 1 full day, he or she can rebuild the connection and thus regain the 'reliable uses' of the item.

At no time may an artificer have more than their allotted number/level of WS inventions in his or her care. Violation of this rule results in a invention to become useless at random (as if rolling a 1 during a UMD). The GameMaster will assign numbers to the WS items secretly, have the Artificer roll an appropriately numbered die and report the result to the GM. The artificer will not know which invention is inactive until he or she attempts to use it.

**I also posted this on the HL: Pathfinder boards.**