Kulgore's page

Are you using hero points?

I haven't played a lot of very high level yet, but I've still never seen a PC die.

A single hero point is enough to take you from dying 4, about to become dead, to not dying at all and without increasing your wounded level. Meaning if you get further healing you can be back in the fight, and still get knocked out yet again without it being instant death.

I've never seen a PC die, though I've seen quite a few PCs need to use their hero point to prevent death.

If the point of your action is that bad stuff (including damage) happens to another creature, it's a hostile action.

The quote from the CRB is not unclear on this matter - it even says "whether directly or indirectly" (emphasis mine)

So yes, you having your summoned creature or commanded animal (companion or otherwise) attacking absolutely, clear as day, breaks your invisibility because it's a hostile action.

The full quote is "A hostile action is one that can harm or damage another creature, whether directly or indirectly. . . "

100% of all actions that a character takes "can" harm another character "indirectly".

When the party's fighter is unconscious during a fight, going over and healing him means he can get back and up and start swinging his sword again. So absolutely healing the fighter will cause indirect harm to the enemies. As written, this would make healing spells hostile actions, as would virtually 100% of the things that characters do, all of which "can" cause "indirect" harm to others.

So a literally reading of the rule is not helpful unless you want to rule that invisibility is broken the second the wizard does anything.

I think putting the emphasis on "indirectly" is putting the emphasis in the wrong place.

As a GM, I'd put the emphasis on "hostile" and ask whether using this outside of combat would be perceived as a "hostile" action by NPCs that witness the action.

So healing, casting a flight spell, talking to your friends, etc would not be considered "hostile". Nobody who say you do those things, outside of combat, would automatically assume you had hostile intentions.

On the other hand, anybody who witness you tell your summoned creature to attack somebody, would very clearly consider that to have been a hostile action. If somebody saw your use telekenisis to start a land slide over somebody's head they'd consider that hostile. And to the original post, concentrating to maintain a spell that is currently attempting to burn somebody to a crisp would most certainly be considered a hostile thing to do by anyone who saw you do it.

I love this thread and how vehement the arguments are!

What's the point of being an arcane spell caster if you're not going to be a weasel?

More realistically, I'd use this to add a small selection of the most useful non-arcane spells to my spell book. I wouldn't need to take the time to add them all.

In the same amount of time that would be required to craft a really nice new staff you could instead add three or four highly useful spells to your spell book.

I don't think the idea that the spell you understood perfectly last week suddenly becomes gibberish because you studied something else makes much logical sense. But then I suppose it is magic, and the GM could simply justify it with a don't be a weasel sort of logic.

As a GM I would put this on my recurring villain Lich so that he always has the spells he needs for all situations. And presumably he's got the time to learn all these spells before he meets the PCs.