Mothman

Kerian Valentine's page

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Our party recently received a very powerful intelligent item with an Ego Score of "really freaking high". It came up that we had several methods to make ourselves immune to Charm effects, and that the Paladin will eventually be immune to Compulsion effects.

Does immunity to Charm or Compulsion negate the ability of an Intelligent Item to possess its wielder? Alternatively, if not, what immunity would be necessary? Immunity [Mind-Affecting]?


So I'm playing around with a build I might run in my GM's next campaign, at some point in the future; essentially, the goal is to be Captain America. No weapons besides my shield, shield bashing being my primary source of DPS.

Is that viable with only Paizo mechanics, as a 1-20 fighter? Also of note is that I don't plan to take the Shielded archetype, I find it inferior by a wide margin to the baseline Fighter.


So I mentioned this over on http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p7vl?Missing-the-Myth , but I felt it deserved its own thread so it can be thrown at the community at large instead of just the group who peruse every thread.

The definition of a Mythic hero is identical to the classical definition of a hero - Dictionary.com's "Classical Mythology" tells us that a Hero is:
- "a being of godlike prowess and beneficence who often came to be honored as a divinity"
- "a warrior-chieftain of special strength, courage, or ability."
- "(in later antiquity) an immortal being; demigod."

And certainly the Mythic rules as presented grant us many of these traits. In truth, Mythic heroes are stronger than the default hero - a Fighter 1/Mythic 1 is more amazing than a 1 Fighter. But is he more amazing than a Fighter 2? Well, there's the question.

People will say that the problem stems from this being a game of numbers. There is balance required - you can't just make yourself Hercules, or that delicate balance falls apart. But I don't agree with that. Hercules wasn't great just because he was strong, no more than Perseus was great because he got handed a bunch of magic items and killed a gorgon (because really, who among us hasn't killed a Gorgon in our games by now? Well, a Medusa, but the point remains). They were great because of an inner quality, an ability to wow and capture the imaginations of mortal men.

Can a Mythic Character do that? Can a Fighter 1/Mythic 1 wow his cohorts more than a Fighter 2?

Well, there are Mythic spells that let you do incredible things - a mile-wide Sleep is a good start. But on the whole, no, I don't feel that Mythic characters can capture the imagination. Mythic feels a great deal like a replacement for the Epic Levels, a replacement that's on the whole more "useable" and concept-friendly for GMs while at the same time being suited well for the incredibly high-level play of 20+. I feel as though being Mythic means more than what is presented in the books.

So, if you just glazed your eyes over at my little ramble, here's the part where you can start reading again. Don't worry, I don't hold it against you.

MYTHIC SKILLS:

MYTHIC SKILLS

What does a Skill being Mythic mean? Simply put, being Mythic at a skill does not mean having more success at it; it means that your successes are greater than mere mortals can possibly attain. It means that your successes are touched by a spark of the divine, the sort of deeds that will live on in songs of fame and infamy for as long as time cares to remember you.

Starting at Mythic Tier 1, a Mythic Character may "flag" a single skill as Mythic. The character may, from that point on, burn a use of Mythic Power before he makes a roll, declaring that, should the skill succeed, he is using his Mythic effect. On a successful roll, the character's success is wildly, astoundingly powerful - far beyond the ken of mere mortals. Terrifying a village into submission, bringing a whole country to tears with your speech, or simply knowing that which you should not know - all these and more are possible with Mythic Skills. At every other mythic tier, the character may flag an additional skill as Mythic.

FORGING A LEGEND

Below are some suggested Mythic effects for various skills. It is by no means a comprehensive list, merely a single effect per core skill.

Mythic effects that are contested do not apply against other Mythic characters, unless otherwise noted.

Mythic Acrobatics - God Speed: The Mythic hero may either keep his full armor class while using Acrobatics to move across narrow surfaces, or multiply his Jump distance by (mythic tier) x10.

Mythic Appraise - King's Keen Eye: It is impossible to fool the Mythic appraiser. He immediately knows not only the value of the item he is appraising, but where and when it was made, with what materials it was created, and - if he succeeds the check by more than 10 - exactly what magic abilities a mystic item has, if any. This same ability applies to the most expensive item of a hoard, but at a glance, the Mythic hero may also determine the next most expensive item, its value, and any single magical aura upon it.

Mythic Bluff - Word Of Truth: The lie is true. Or, rather, the lie permeates the target so thoroughly that it becomes truth to him, no matter how outlandish - though all normal penalties apply. A Mythic Hero can convince a man that the sky is green, that his wife is cheating on him, or even that the man himself is dead - and if he is successful enough, truly kill him.

Mythic Climb - The Slopes Of Olympus: The hero may walk not only up any surface he succeeds on climbing with the climb check at full speed, as though he had a climb speed, but may climb a perfectly smooth, vertical surface as though it were a DC 40 check.

Mythic Craft - From The Forge Of Gods: The item is automatically masterwork. Furthermore, the GM may secretly roll on any table the GM feels is appropriate to determine whether or not the item has a magic property, as well as what property. The GM is under no compulsion to tell the player what sort of magic item he has created. The player does not need any sort of feat to create such items - but nor can the imbuement of Mythic magic truly be controlled.

Mythic Diplomacy - To Move A Nation: The words of a Mythic hero can move a nation, and indeed, do. By spending Mythic power, the result of a single Diplomacy check spreads like wildfire - improving the relationship of every NPC in a number of miles equal to your Mythic rank.

Mythic Disable Device - Curse Of The Black Pearl: The mythic hero levels a curse upon the device, a sabotage that surpasses mere mechanical. No visible evidence of his tampering is left; he may set any condition he wishes for the failure of the item in question, so long as it is a condition that can be achieved. "When the King of the nation rides upon this cart, the wheel will fall" or "when the firstborn son of the firstborn son of this cursed family sits upon this chair, the trap will trigger."

Mythic Disguise - For Someone's Glory: The Mythic Hero becomes the person he disguises. Divination magic cannot penetrate the disguise; for all intents and purposes, any attempts to detect the Hero treat him as though he were the real person. Furthermore, any actions committed by the hero while disguised as a real person become attributed to that person once the disguise ends. If he is disguised as a false person, there is no evidence of his falsehood.

Mythic Escape Artist - The Impossible Escape: The Mythic Hero is capable of escaping from every bond placed upon him with a single roll, as though it were a Dispel Magic check - target the highest roll offered, in descending order. This is treated as a standard action, no matter what sorts of restraints are placed upon him - including magical ones.

Mythic Fly - Hurricane In Motion: The mythic character rides the winds, and in his wake, the winds follow. The Mythic character applies a High Wind Speeds penalty to anyone who follows him within a thirty-foot radius; these winds can damage standing structures, fling items, and push Small enemies according to the wind speed table.

Mythic Handle Animal - Breaking The Untameable Mare: The Mythic character may apply Handle Animal to any creature that lacks an intelligence score, regardless of its nature or subtype - including Oozes, Golems, and mindless Undead - as though they were Wild animals, with a DC of 15+HD.

Mythic Heal - The Impossible Surgeon: The Mythic surgeon may restore a number of hit points to a wounded character equal to half of his Heal check, as though the character were healed by magic. Alternatively, he may cure a disease or poison normally considered uncurable, as though it had a save DC of 25+(HD of creature that applied it), or a flat 30 if the above does not apply.

Mythic Intimidate - Terror In Your Wake: The Mythic character, if he succeeds on his Intimidate check vs. his opponent's will or Sense Motive check, applies the results of his Intimidate to everyone in a radius of (Mythic Tier) miles. Furthermore, local authorities will not treat the mythic character as hostile, so long as he does not commit an illegal action - as normal.

Mythic Knowledge - Secrets Man Does Not Know: The Mythic sage may uncover a single bit of information that is actually impossible to know, according to a DC set by the DC. This information may be a local secret, a loophole in the law, or the location of a forgotten treasure; regardless, it is pulled out of absolutely nowhere, drawn from the Mythic power the sage holds.

Mythic Linguistics - Forgery Becomes Fact: A successful Mythic forgery does not merely become difficult to discern; it applies any modifiers that would be beneficial to the forgery, but pushes any negative modifiers onto the actual, original document. If there is no original document, it simply removes any negative penalties.

Mythic Perception - Sight Beyond Sight: The Mythic character gains a glimpse of the future on a successful Perception check. He immediately knows the next actions of any NPCs who are not Mythically stealthed, and can react to them as though he had a surprise action. His surprise action puts him immediately at the top of the surprise action initiative, allowing him to catch the assassins or ambushers before they even pull off their action.

Mythic Perform - All The World's A Stage: The Mythic character may sweep up others into the sheer force of his performance; on a Memorable or better performance, the Mythic artist may apply any single emotion to the crowd, as though they were subject to any single spell that can affect emotions. The Mythic hero may choose to apply either the benefits or the penalties, or both, of the spell. This may be combined with Bardic Performance, but any such performance burns up two rounds per actual round as the Bard sustains his epic.

Mythic Profession - uncertain. Try again later.

Mythic Ride - The Mount Of Heroes: With a DC 25 Ride check, the Hero may temporarily apply any benefits of his own Mythic tier to his mount so long as he stays upon it, including any feats or abilities the Mount could take advantage of - and also including any Mythic flaws.

Mythic Sense Motive - Glorious Magistrate's Ear: The Mythic hero may, on a successful Sense Motive check, not only determine whether or not the target is lying, but the nature of the lie, the nature of the crime the character is attempting to hide (if any), and the exact details of when and where the crime took place.

Mythic Sleight Of Hand - Where In The World...?: The Mythic hero may swipe attended objects as though they were unattended, including weapons, clothes, or items held in hand. By taking a cumulative -5 penalty per size category of the item, the character may even steal attended structures - so long as he has the means to carry them. This may include magic items such as a Bag of Holding, shrinking spells, or simply being large enough to hold the object with a successful strength check.

Mythic Spellcraft - Archmage's Wisdom: The Mythic hero may attempt to learn a spell he witnesses being cast with a successful check, as though it were a scroll or spellbook, so long as he first succeeds on the check to identify the spell being cast. This use of Mythic power may be declared after a successful attempt to identify a cast spell, unlike any other use of Mythic Skills - it then applies an immediate additional check to learn the spell. A spell not scribed before the end of the day is lost. Spontaneous casters who use this spell may immediately add a single use of their spell to their Spells Per Day, up to a number of additional spells equal to their Mythic tier.

Mythic Stealth - The Invisible Hand: The Mythic character vanishes from all forms of non-Mythic perception; not merely sight, sound, and scent, but tremorsense and other exotic senses, as well as Divination spells that are not cast by a mythic caster. Looking at the character simply registers as a blank space; it requires a DC 20 intelligence check to realize that something is wrong, though this check does not permit the character to then perceive the Mythic character. Any action that would break stealth breaks Mythic stealth.

Mythic Survival - Divine Guidance: The Mythic character not only knows exactly where he is, but the nearest location of all streams, watering holes, food sources, and natural hazards within a (Mythic Tier) mile radius, as well as any cities, towns, or gathering places.

Mythic Swim - Trout Up The Dam: The Mythic character may swim against any current as though he had a Swim speed of (Swim Check result), including directly up currents that would be impossible to swim, such as a waterfall. He may further act as though he has a swim speed for as long as he chooses to swim, including the ability to 'run' underwater across great distances.

Mythic Use Magic Device - not sure, try again later.

Note that I make no claims of the balance of these abilities - only their design and concept. This is intended only to be a jumping-off point, and has not been playtested in any real manner.


I've seen a couple threads around here about Time Thieves, most of them coming to the same conclusion I did - that they're somewhat martially underpowered but otherwise a good class.

But I haven't seen any about actually *building* one.

Right now, I'm going to be playing in a 3rd-level campaign as a Time Thief. The other players are an Archaeologist Bard, a Lotus Geisha Bard, a Mystic Godling, a Psychic Warrior, and Fighter specializing Archer.

Obviously the Archaeologist is going to be a heck of a skillmonkey, so my job is probably going to be debuffing. I wrote the class into the setting (with the GM's help) as a sort of time-wielding assassin order, so leaning towards that, I'm planning on specializing in Stealth. Also, my GM has a houserule that lets me sacrifice a feat for the equivilant of Extra Talent, so I'm thinking about picking up an extra time talent to help the debuffing go smoother.

Oh, and just to be more complicated, I'm an Elan.

Thoughts? Ideas? Builds? Anything would be helpful.


This has nothing to do with the confusing wording of the text. I'm well aware it's a typo.

But...it shouldn't be. 0-level extracts couldn't possibly make that big a difference. Alright, so the alchemist has brewed a couple Cure Minor Wounds extracts to keep people off the brink of death. An Oil of Prestidigitation cleans away the glasses just right! An Oil of Repair fixes up those broken hinges and doors.

Why did something so obviously useful and interesting as 0-level extracts get wiped from the Alchemist's portfolio? 0-level extracts (spells in general, really) get a horrible rap from people, but orisons are some of the most useful spells in the game.

Where's the extract of Light being poured onto the sword? Where's the Daze extract tossed to the ground for a lot of flashing lights and fireworks?

Dare I say it - where's Dancing Lights extract? We want fireworks, people!

Bring back Level 0 Formulae!

That is all.


So, we've just been presented with the last of the links in the "secondary base class" chain. Theoretically, one could now form a group of nothing but these secondary base classes, and they would perform admirably when stacked up against a group of nothing but the original set. Is this true? Are the New Champions up for the challenge?

What are the roles these new classes fill? Where are they strong? Where are they weak? Can they perform their roles, and are they worth having in a party of New Champions? Let's find out.

Cavalier:

Cavalier - Tank/Melee Damage. Analogous to the Paladin, the Fighter, or the Barbarian, a Cavalier should be capable of holding his own against any of these, and perform to expectations when dealing with anything from goblins to boss monsters.

Where Cavalier Is Strong: High HP, high damage, and the Challenge ability are definitely the central features of the class. Utilizing effective tactics, Challenge becomes a bosskiller supreme; focus on one guy once the room is clear and flanking no longer becomes a problem. Order abilities and oaths provide some impressive icing on an already high-damage, high-tank cake. Mmm, delicious.

Where Cavalier Is Weak: Supreme Charge is not a useful capstone. Sure, it's nice and powerful, but compared to Barbarian's Mighty Rage (buffs the primary class ability), Fighter's Weapon Mastery (auto-confirm crit, automatic disarm immunity, improved critical modifier), and Paladin's Holy Champion (banish outsiders on with a single hit and improved Damage Reduction), Supreme Charge is just too situational. It would be nice to see some sort of Challenge improvement to remove the auto-flanking or something. Also, giving them Tactical Feats instead of Inquisitors would make them stronger at their general role of tank, coordinating the party more efficiently.

Can the Cavalier Perform?: Oh yeah it can. Definitely an acceptable tank/frontliner, the Cavalier hits like a brick. With good Summoner synergy (I'll get to that), Supreme Charge and Challenge can be utilized to take high-damage bosses down in no time.

Final Judgement: Fantastic frontliners. Good synergy with the rest of the party, and some strong abilities. Definitely a necessity. Give them a big sword and shield, heavy armor, and let them loose.

Oracle:

Oracle – Divine Caster. Analogous to the Sorceror and the Cleric, with spontaneous cleric casting and ninth level spells, the Oracle is improved even more by its Foci.

Where Oracle Is Strong: Everywhere, really. Oracles are Clerics but spontaneous, and with fascinating extra abilities (Foci and revelations in particular are fantastically powerful). They can blast, they can heal, they can buff, they can even tank if you give them the proper proficiencies and Foci. Thanks to spontaneous casting, Oracles can be even more versatile than a cleric in any given situation.

Where Oracle Is Weak: Nowhere. Oracles are the perfect fusion of Divine and Spontaneous casting.

Can The Oracle Perform?: You bet. The only primary Divine Caster in the New Champions roster, Oracles are definitely good at what they do.

Judgement: Have one in the party if you can't get a Cleric. That is all.

Summoner:

Summoner – A buffer with a pet! Two classes in one! A bit spastic, the summoner can function as scout, secondary buffer, general, frontliner...you get the idea. Super-versatile.

Where The Summoner Is Strong: Eidolon. Eidolon Eidolon Eidolon. Easily their best and most powerful ability, the Summoner is the undisputed master of utilizing summoned creatures; their abilities (Twinned Eidolon, Dimension Dooring Eidolons, Castling with Eidolon, Mighty Guard) simply reinforce this, allowing them to maneuver about the battlefield in ways Druids dream of. Their ability to summon as a spell-like ability makes them the perfect backup; throw out a horde of creatures and gain tactical superiority over your foes. Taking evolutions for the Summoner also gives added versatility; fight alongside your Eidolon like a champion.

Where The Summoner Is Weak: The spell list pigeonholes them into being a tagalong for the Eidolon – not that this is a bad thing (we all knew it was coming, right?). Some of the Eidolon evolutions are a bit overpowered (you know who you are, Spell-Like Ability), and if applied to the summoner, can be really crazy.

Can The Summoner Perform?: Again, a yes. Whatever the role, the Eidolon is probably suited to doing it. Best utilized as a frontliner in a New Champions party, the Eidolon works fantastically as a mount for the Cavalier. Arm it with Gore and watch the Charge damage fly. With the right spells and evolutions, the Summoner can settle in alongside the Eidolon too. Pick up Tactical Feats and watch the Eidolon and your summoned monsters synchronize like a swarm of death.

Final Judgement: Wherever you place them, they're another great class. Front line, back line, they're guaranteed to fill the weak links of the party with no trouble. Take one in a New Champions party.

Witch:

Witch – Primary Arcane Spellcaster with a few neat new tricks. Analogous to the wizard, with a few nods to 3.5e Warlock.

Where The Witch Is Strong: Ninth-level spells in and of themselves are a world of good, but on top of that, the Witch spell list is a wonderful fusion of Cleric and Wizard, enabling them to backup buff, blast, heal, or whatever they need to do. Hexes in particular are a neat class ability, making them useful even if they've run out of spells for the day. The ability to teach their familiar new tricks is especially great.

Where The Witch Is Weak: Hexes being primarily touch-ranged, combined with low Attack Bonus, low AC, and low HP, makes Witches...want to avoid any combat hexes. The Familiar being easily killed is worse for a Witch than a Wizard's spellbook burning; a Wizard can make a backup. A Witch is screwed.

Does The Witch Perform?: Keeping the familiar out of trouble and utilizing Hexes to fill weak spots on their spell list makes a Witch a powerful and dangerous caster. Again, ninth level spells rule the day.

Final Judgement: Take a Witch along. They're definitely a necessity in a New Champions party.

Alchemist:

Alchemist – Item masters with a spastic number of tricks up their sleeves. Like a fusion of the old 3.5 Artificer, a bard, and a rogue.

Where Alchemist Is Strong: The sheer variety of tricks Alchemists have to pull from is astounding. Extracts, bombs, mundane alchemical items, mutagens...an Alchemist probably has something for any given situation. It's like being a dumbed-down Batman. Add to that some really cool Discoveries (Eternal Potion + Grand Mutagen + Extracts = Wow!) and you get a neat self-buffer class. Bombs are also super strong.

Where Alchemist Is Weak: Synergy. It lacks the ability to function well with the rest of its party, lending it a “mine” air that others on the board have already observed. Moreover, Discoveries are cool, but highly specialized – if you don't complete a tree of discoveries, you're punished at higher levels. Mutagen doesn't improve on its own, making its discoveries almost required if you want to tuilize them. Also, the inability to -actually Craft Potions- kind of bothers me. Formula being “known” and not learned, as well as a lack of 0th-level Extracts, also bothers me; Alchemists deserve 0th-level Extracts they can craft like Alchemical items. Throw Anything is nice, but does it add anything?

Does The Alchemist Perform?: Not really. As an itemist class, it's punished by requiring too much specialization in either Bombs, Mutagents, or Potions/poisons. As a crafter, it's punished by the inability to, well, craft properly.

Final Judgement: Fun, but don't hold your breath. Summoner or Inquisitor is a much better fifth wheel on the ol' party wagon. With more alchemical items, it might be made into a really great class.

Inquisitor:

Inquisitor – Battle bards with cleric spells. Paladins with more spells and self-buffs. Not really inquisiting much at all.

Where Inquisitor Is Strong: Inquisitor has some fantastic buffs in both Judgement (a very misleading name for an ability that buffs you instead of debuffing the enemy) and its spell list. It's a competent front-liner with a decent Attack Bonus and Hit Die, plus its slayer abilities are fantastic. Bardic – I mean, Monster Lore makes for a great tag-in ability to give them all the ins and outs of being Buffy the Vampire Inquisitor.

Where Inquisitor Is Weak: Not doing much inquisiting there. Maybe it ought to be called Slayer. Bonus feats seem unnecessary and tacked-on as a way to show off Tactical Feats early – why aren't they with Cavalier, where the theme would work? Or Summoner, where they could make great use of them?

Does The Inquisitor Perform?: It's better than the Alchemist, that's for sure. As a secondary frontliner, it falls in line with the Summoner's Eidolon in backing up the Cavalier. As a midliner, it has good buffs and healing ability; keep it off the back line.

Final Judgement: Needs a solid theme of “inquisition” and less misleading names (what are you judging, exactly? Yourself?). Mechanically, though, it's a strong front- or mid-line class easily synchronizing with the others. The best fifth wheel in the group.

So what's the final word? How does Cavalier/Oracle/Witch/Summoner/Inquisitor look against the classic Fighter/Cleric/Wizard/Rogue/Bard? Do the New Champions stack up to the Icons?

In my opinion, yes. Except for the Alchemist, there's a heck of a lot of synergy between the classes – a Summoner's Eidolon being ridden by a Cavalier, buffed by the Summoner and the Oracle, supported by the Witch and aided by the Inquisitor, makes a strong five-man party with the Oracle in the middle. The synchronized and stacking buffs between all the classes makes for a really scary bit of tactical know-how with the right players, and Tactical Feats in the hands of a Cavalier or a Summoner are just plain hell. Steamrolling through armies seems to be this group's thing; a dungeon will screw over the Eidolon or the Cavalier, but against a group of ten or twenty they're going to find themselves quickly outclassing their foes. A startling lack of Skillmonkey/trapmasters secures the Rogue's place in any party, meaning that, again, Dungeons simply shut this group down.

All in all? Give us more alchemical items and improve the Alchemist's flaws, and we'll have a six-man party able to hold its own against the classics. Nice work, Paizo.