Kalan's page

It's been confirmed that you could build a cleric with 10 wisdom if you tried hard enough(though I can't see how in the core rulebook).

The best way to look at it is
Race: +2,+2, -2 or +2, and +2 floating from pb that doesn't stack
Background: +2 to one of 2 stats, +2 floating
Class:+2 to your classes main stat
And having seen some pregenerated character stats, there's clearly a stage where you "buy" additional stats at the end.

At first I thought the 10 points for ability scores were lackluster compared to the P1E but if the Background and class boosts are +2 that brings it to 16 already. So if you want 14, 14, 14, 14, 10, 10 (not counting ancestry) to start. 1E and 2E are equal as it took 20 points to have four 14s in 1E.

So over all a mechanically stronger character ability wise to start.

Now if we can just get them to answer whether or not the Alchemists multiplier to bombs affects splash as well. 1d6 +1 becomes 2d6 +2, 3d6 +3 etc

People have said "There can't be higher level bombs because the Alchemists multiplier makes them OP" but think about it. With cantrips scaling now things like acid splash might be viable for clean up after the wizard/sorcerer casts a couple fire balls, and all for "free"(well free if eschew components is still a thing in 2E). Where an Alchemist will quickly run out of his "free" bombs and need to start expending resources just to keep up. Even if the multiplier affects splash.

11th level
Wizard or sorcerer : energy ball(fire) 20' rad 10d6 ~ 35 damage on average.

Alchemist (INT 20) x4 multiplier. normal bomb 4d6 +5(20?) 15'diameter

Artokus's fire 8d6 +1d6 (4d6) 15' diameter

Hypothetical bomb that does 3d6 +1d6 to 10'splash 12d6 +4d6 25' diameter.

Since the higher level bombs will likely cost more resonance to make, Even the bonus Resonance the class gets won't keep the Alchemist from running out of free bombs long before he catches up to the damage a caster can do with a handful of spells

Partial re-post and expansion
I fully expect there to be higher level versions of the basic alchemy bombs. In fact, for Alchemy nuts like myself there is one in PF1E.
On pg 26 of the Alchemy Manual players companion is an item called Artokus's Fire, It does 2d6 fire with1d6 splash.
Alchemist fire 20 gp 1d6 +1 splash
Artokus's fire 100 gp 2d6 +1d6 splash

Based on the price difference I would expect a 2E version to be a level 3 or even 4 Item. Thereby costing more resonance to craft for "free" at the beginning of the day

I'm not sure how the new rules would interact with it but since the alchemist applies a MULTIPLIER, at lvl 11 it should at least be 8d6 +1d6 splash possibly 8d6 +4d6 splash with the empower bomb feature.

Speaking of which does the empower bomb feature only multiply the main damage or does it affect splash as well? (level 11 4d6 +4 splash) What about if you add calculated splash(INT 20)? Does the x4 multiplier at lvl 11 take the 1d6+5 an make it 4d6 +5 or 4d6+20?
(clarification from the devs if possible on this please)

Not likely I know, you'd consistently do more damage to splash targets than the main one, except that's what happens even with 1d6+5 (or even +4) :O However I've been in water balloon fights where the person hit by the water(bomb)balloon ended up less wet than the person next to them sooo it's plausible if OP.

Another Item I'd like to see make the transition to 2E is Soul Stimulant,(UE 101) 300 gp and negates one negative level for 12 hours. Multiple doses do not stack.

yeah 4d6 + 1 splash at lvl 11 is sad, even if you take the feat and max your Int, without a boost of some sort the best you can have at lvl 11 is +5.

BUT that is a level one bomb (we'll use Alchemist fire)
On pg 26 of the Alchemy Manual players companion is an item called Artokus's Fire, I don't know if it would be considered a 2nd or 3rd lvl item but it functions as alchemists fire but does 2d6 +1d6 splash. I'm not sure how the new rules would interact with it but since the alchemist applies a MULTIPLIER at lvl 11 it should at least be 8d6 +1d6 splash possibly 8d6 +4d6 splash with the empower bomb feature.

Speaking of which does the empower bomb feature only multiply the main damage or does it affect splash as well? (level 11 4d6 +4 splash) What about if you add calculated splash(INT 20)? Does the x4 multiplier at lvl 11 take the 1d6+5 an make it 4d6 +5 or 4d6+20?
Not likely I know, you'd consistently do more damage to splash targets than the main one, except that's what happens even with 1d6+5 (or even +4) :O

EDIT: After thinking about it, how many times during a water balloon fight does someone NEXT to the person struck by the balloon get more water on them because of the way the balloon (water bomb) breaks. maybe not so far fetched after all.

I feel the 2 hands entry for bombs might mean they work on a similar principle to RL chem lights. They need to be manipulated in the round they're used to render them "active". And without practice, activating a RL chem light one handed takes twice as long as using two hands due to awkward angles reducing your leverage. Using a feat (representing learning to manipulate an item so you can activate it one handed) to enable you to throw two in a round makes sense.

As for needing 2 hands to poison a weapon, I'm assuming they mean you need to hold the weapon in one hand while using the other to apply the poison. So only one weapon readied at the time and the only shield you can have on is a buckler (or maybe a light shield).

I'm extrapolating what seems to be (to me) the reasoning behind the Feats/rules presented not any "hard" references.

Kalan wrote:

Thank you for the link. While James Jacobs states that the force damage was left in from a previous iteration of the Archetype (mostly because the lower damage kept it from being game breaking)

The different damage types might not make sense from a "real world" point of view, but neither do dead bodies or assemblies of wood, stone or other materials that walk around and perform tasks (fighting, lifting etc.) as if they were programmable robots. The answer to both example is "But it's magic". Not that I'm arguing that at it's core that the explanation as to why the PF1 Alchemists various abilities are magic doesn't need a better definition, it does, but I still like the class (and it's Archetypes) as it is.

PFS have made the change sort of offical by including it in the campaign clarifications

Ah well at least the way it's worded I'll still do 1d4 for every odd level +int modifier to incorporeal creatures, slightly better than half. That just means I'll still have to take the force bomb feat for those creatures Resistant/immune to acid. sigh :p ;)

MerlinCross wrote:

I tend to use the SRD as reference, and it's listed as Acid there so who knows.

If you're talking d20srd, then it lists the reason for the change at the bottom of the page and the link it gives goes to the unofficial post from James.

D20srd wrote:

"*Unofficial Errata

“Alkahest bombs should do acid damage to all targets, just more against constructs and corporeal undead.”
link

Thank you for the link. While James Jacobs states that the force damage was left in from a previous iteration of the Archetype (mostly because the lower damage kept it from being game breaking)

The different damage types might not make sense from a "real world" point of view, but neither do dead bodies or assemblies of wood, stone or other materials that walk around and perform tasks (fighting, lifting etc.) as if they were programmable robots. The answer to both example is "But it's magic". Not that I'm arguing that at it's core that the explanation as to why the PF1 Alchemists various abilities are magic doesn't need a better definition, it does, but I still like the class (and it's Archetypes) as it is.

As for oracles mine (life mystery) is a "Student" I suppose of Irori so he could have the Ki channel feat and I spent every favored class bonus for spells. I also took the Tongues curse since I thought it would be amusing to have the (somewhat handsome) charismatic half-elf spouting Abyssal during combat.

I also seem to have fewer qualms than average about waiting for a character to come to fruition. I had a dream at one time to have a sorcerer that could "learn" his spells with a metamagic feat already attached. He would only be able to cast stilled disrupt undead as a first or stilled magic missile as a 2nd but they would have a normal casting time. And he would get to wear armor since no somatic components means no armor spell failure chance. The reasoning behind it was to get to a level where he could cast Dimension door to take the melee members of my party into the thick of combat without going Splat when he got there.

Then came the Advanced Class Guide and there was my character, but better. An Arcanist could do everything I wanted and more. On top of that, where I was originally going to dip fighter for the armor and shield proficiencies there was the Warpriest with the same proficiencies AND the ability to use cure wand without making a check.
It took me 9 levels before I could do what I designed him to do but it was worth it.
My caster in a can is currently a Warpriest 1/Arcanist 9 with a 32 AC (touch AC is 16)and 93 hp. Put on mirror image and He can tank along side the fighter/paladin/Barbarian and get them in and out of situations quickly (and hopefully with out getting splatted) .

Not sure what I think of the new Alchemist yet, I seem to be one of the rare few that hasn't built his alchemist characters around Melee.

Of my two Alchemists (both currently lvl 10) I have used the mutagen exactly once, and that was for the dex/AC boost. Too often I needed to be doing something else and didn't have time to quaf the mutagen. Granted if I ever get my first Alchemist to lvl 14 and the persistent mutagen he'd certainly use it.(along with the vest of stable mutation). So I'm in the "Mutagen may be nice but has no active session to session affect on my character" group. Not getting precise bombs until 6th is a bigger annoyance to me but I suppose with only 1 splash Paizo didn't think it would be important.

My Second Alchemist has the Crypt Breaker Archetype. For Trapfinding and Alkhest bombs,1d8 against corporeal undead and constructs and 1d4 force against everything else at first level (lvl 1 force bomb I can add explosive too? Yes please). I Loose brew potion and persistent Mutagen as well as have the mutagen (that I don't use anyway) altered to give me low light, darkvision, or scent and a +4 to perception at the cost of light blindness.

Both of them have the Master alchemist feat so at 5th level they could both auto craft almost any alchemical Item. Need a sunrod? Give them 5 min(or less)

I guess I just have a more ranged attack/support personality.

Kalan wrote:

Since a Vanara can carry things with his tail

Expect table variation on this.

Some GMs believe that the tail cannot be used to carry items; only to aid in drawing items as a swift action.

Yeah I was experiencing this in a FB pathfinder group. The poster in question was trying to use the Tieflings Grasping Tail feat as proof. At least until I pointed out that a Tiefling character needed to take the alternate racial trait prehensile tail to get the full benefit of the feat.

and never mind that the first line in the Prehensile Tail entry for the Vanara in both the Advanced Race Guide and Bestiary 3 open with "A Vanara has a long flexible tail that they can use to carry objects" :p

I'll probably have to carefully go over the Alchemist description in the APG to see for sure weather or not an Alchemist needs both hands free to mix a bomb or if one hand can be holding an object or weapon. If he only needs one hand my original question is moot as even a human character could use the lantern and still throw a bomb.

OK The question seems simple enough. Since a Vanara can carry things with his tail, would it count as a hand for carrying a Lit Lantern of hidden light(PRG:AG pg 115)? RAW would indicate that, even though a Vanara could carry the Lantern with his tail, it wouldn't stay lit as he isn't holding it in his hand.
Or would RAI say that it would stay lit because the character is holding it with one limb capable of carrying it?

Rei wrote:

Multi-level modules like Thornkeep and Emerald Spire are currently broken. No info yet on when the system will get fixed.

Indeed. I wouldn't worry too much about what the database server says. The actual chronicle sheets are what holds the most merit.

Ah Thank you both. It's good to know that my group will be able to use their characters when/if they take them to another game.

I've been running the Pathfinder online: Thornkeep modules. I didn't have any problems with the first two but I started running into problems after Core went online. When I went in to enter the third session Thornkeep was only one line I didn't think much of it until yesterday when I registered the session were I ran The Dark Menagerie. When I checked to make sure I'd entered it right I said I'd already run the session.

Now did the Thornkeep modules just get lost in the shuffle of implementing Core or have they been changed?

Does anyone know when this will be resolved?

The Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play has a fillable Tracking sheet but no fillable character sheets. Does anyone know the reason why?

I know many players that create a lot of characters like the sheets that autofill some entries for them to save time. I'm looking for one that works like the tracking sheet that comes with the guide. That way if something is entered wrong it was my thought process that broke not one of the codes in the program.

If an Occultist took Expanded Arcana would he be able to cast the spells with his chosen implement or would he need a second implement to cast those spells?

If he took the feat at 5th level when he could cast 2nd lvl spells and chose to gain 2 1st lvl spells would he have to chose them both from the same school or could he add 1 spell to 2 different schools.

Example 1
Transmutation: Mending(0), Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Magic Weapon(1st), Spider Climb(2nd)

Example 2
Transmutation: Mending(0), Enlarge Person, Feather Fall(1st), Spider Climb(2nd)
Conjuration: Create Water(0), Cure Light , Unseen Servant(1st), Cure Moderate Wounds(2nd)

Does no one have an answer to the above?

In addition a question came to me about the Kineticist.
To begin with you can pick the Rare Metal Infusion one level before the Expanded Element wild talent that(If you pick earth a second time) gives you access to the Metal Composite blast. Both the Infusion and the Composite Blast have a burn of two. The infusion at least I think you can get down to 0 if you pick substance for your specialization at 5th level and spend a move action to gather energy. But the composite blast doesn't list a type. Does that mean you can't reduce the burn or was the type left out of the PT doc?

sigh. Its tempting to sign up but I'm already wait-listed for a game in that time slot.

If no one drops out of the other slot, I have an Alchemist 5 bomber with max ranks in disable device or I could play a rogue or fighter pregen. I'll check back as the time approaches.

Can an occultist take Expanded Arcana? It seems like they should, but what would happen to that extra spell or spells known? Would they need to assign it/them to an implement? Would they be unable to cast them because they wouldn't have an implement?

The questions above don't seem to have been answered.

If an Occultist took Expanded Arcana would he be able to cast the spells with his chosen implement or would he need a second implement to cast those spells?

If he took the feat at 5th level when he could cast 2nd lvl spells and chose to gain 2 1st lvl spells would he have to chose them both from the same school or could he add 1 spell to 2 different schools.

Example 1
Transmutation: Mending(0), Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Magic Weapon(1st), Spider Climb(2nd)

Example 2
Transmutation: Mending(0), Enlarge Person, Feather Fall(1st), Spider Climb(2nd)
Conjuration: Create Water(0), Cure Light , Unseen Servant(1st), Cure Moderate Wounds(2nd)

Does Expanded Arcana work normally with the Occult classes that have a spell list? Specifically the Occultist?

I know the Occultist has an extremely limited list based on the schools that they choose but could you pick the spells made available from the feat from those schools and still just need the one implement to cast the additional spells made available by the feat?

Say I have Conjuration, Evocation and Transmutation as my schools. At 5th level I have access to level 2 spells and I take Expanded Arcana and decide to use it to pick 2 first level spells that I haven't chosen and take them both from Transmutation. Do I need to pick say a Weapon AND my boots(or belt) so I can cast the extra spells?

Yes, the interaction is certainly odd, but sometimes with pathfinder rules you have to remember that you are playing a game, not a simulation. The bomb would certainly do damage to the character if it detonated in the same square without the character getting a chance to deflect it. However, the rules text of deflect arrows is very clear: the target takes no damage from the attack if it deflects the shot, with no exception for explosive attacks.

In terms of your character: it might be you are having difficulty contributing because you aren't optimally built. Alchemists have a high skill ceiling. Remember to pick up point blank shot and then the two-weapon fighting line after you get fast bombs. You also want a very high INT, even over DEX. These are essential for a bomber. You can always contribute by using status-inflicting clouds that deflect arrows would not help with (the damage is negated but not secondary effects of a produced cloud), or even hitting them in melee.

I'd have no problem with the target not taking damage as long as the bomb didn't go anywhere else.(I've seen enough magician acts to make the not taking damage plausible even though it's Illusion in RL)

While the rules aren't clear on if you can throw a delayed bomb (Alchemist CAN place, not Places) they are clear that if anyone other than the creating Alchemist touches or moves the bomb without making a successful Disable device check the bomb goes off. Again this direct conflict in the rules is why I asked.

Personally I'd rule that a reflex save vs the same DC as the Disable Device check wouldn't set it off. (but again the developers would have to come out with a ruling)

My Alchemist does have a 20 int (7 cha) I took a trait to get diplomacy as a class skill to explain why he wouldn't be getting into fights every time the party visited a tavern. (Personality is something like Spencer's from Criminal minds with a touch of Sheldon Cooper) The scary thing is the Bard is the only one in the party with a higher diplomacy score. Currently 5th level and did take the point blank shot. Plan on taking discoveries to vary up my damage as we're running into too many things that are resistant to fire. He's also my first character since coming back to Pathfinder in Society. Didn't see the flaws until into second level so I'm stuck with them. Still in scenarios without monk opponents the flaws aren't crippling and I can have fun playing him.

Paizo seems to think every third or fourth scenario needs a monk or monk combo as the BBG. Tried the splash damage, even with a DC 17 reflex they only needed a 5 or 6 to take no damage. It is one of the reasons I was asking about the Delayed discovery.

On the other hand in the last module I ended up on the other side of the line where the AC of those we encountered was so high our tank was basically trying to keep them in one place while I fried them to a crisp(AC 26-32 touch AC 8-11). Three days running I went through all 11 of my bombs. Kind of odd to hear yes when you ask if an 9 confirms a critical hit.

I also notice that people seem to assume a monk or the equivalent is the target. Any character with a 13 dex and improved unarmed strike can take deflect arrows, clerics of Irori in Society even get Improved Unarmed strike as a bonus feat.

I guess my biggest gripe is that it has been hard enough to make my character useful in the average encounter, put him in one where the targets has deflect and he is next to useless. Of course it doesn't help that more than one of the other players had to have it repeatedly explained to him why he needed to have his arrow deflected so I could hit with my 3d6+5 bomb.(to clarify this was a character he'd built for ranged attacks and he wanted to take him into melee and when he has a character that is built for melee he always wants to go ranged) I don't want the glory I just want to feel I contributed.

Defelct arrow never states they TOUCH the missle. There was a "Kung Fu episode" where David caradine put out a candle at a distance by moving his hand towards it and causing a gust of air to put it out. So one could argue that he decoudl deflect an arrow in the same way.

There is also a very good book called "Initiate Brother" in which the hero of the book a young monk once deflects a strike by pure Ki.

So there are ways to flavor it so he did not actually touch it.

If you are going to split hairs deflecting something is moving it to another trajectory and since it is someone besides the Alchemist moving it the bomb would detonate.

As far as flavor goes an Alchemist imbues his bombs with a portion of his magical reserves so even if the target is a monk or other class with Ki the bomb could "know" the difference and still detonate.

The interaction is purely within your DM's purview. In this case I would probably rule the cleanest solution, which is simply to say you cannot throw a delayed bomb. The rules say 'place' which is still a long shot from 'throw'.

Regardless, deflect arrows would not trigger it. The rules clearly state in deflect arrows that you take no damage from the deflected missile. There's no point trying to make an argument from realism here: remember, deflect arrows can even deflect bullets or flaming missiles without issue. The bomb would presumably still go off, but the character will take no damage from the attack (although surrounding characters may suffer splash).

Best answer I've gotten to date.

I have found where versions of this have been asked but could find no Official answer (Faq seems to be mum on it)

Can a Bomb with the Delayed Bomb discovery be thrown?(throwing it would likely break it essentially "wasting" the discovery as it triggers the bomb the round it is made)

If it can be thrown Deflect arrows should trigger it since you have to touch it to deflect it.

Since it can be neutralized with a disable device check of dc 10+alch lvl+int mod. (which for my character would be at least 23 10+8+5) would a reflex save vs the same DC (maybe 5 higher) be a logical way to allow deflect arrows to not set it off?

Don't get me wrong, deflect arrows works fine against any bomb without the delay enhancement. But that delay enhancement creates a bomb with a threefold trigger option.

1. Timer: time runs out it explodes.

2. Contact: Someone other than the maker touches it(think a touch-lamp kind of trigger) it goes of unless a successful disable device check is made.

3. Air exposure: ie it breaks. This would actually be a good way to diffuse a placed bomb at range. Hit it with a rock it goes off.

The discovery description does state "place" not "set" (semantics I know) or I wouldn't ask.

I have found where versions of this have been asked but could find no Official answer (Faq seems to be mum on it)

Can a Bomb with the Delayed Bomb discovery be thrown?(throwing it would likely break it essentially "wasting" the discovery as it triggers the bomb the round it is made)

If it can be thrown Deflect arrows should trigger it since you have to touch it to deflect it.

Since it can be neutralized with a disable device check of dc 10+alch lvl+int mod. (which for my character would be at least 23 10+8+5) would a reflex save vs the same DC (maybe 5 higher) be a logical way to allow deflect arrows to not set it off?

The discovery description states "place" not "set" (semantics I know) or I wouldn't ask.

Yeah, it looks like you could do it, but the spell(s) chosen would have to be of a school you've already chosen with an implement. Otherwise, they're not on your spell list at all.

Although it's worth noting that you don't have to imbue implements with any mental focus to be able to cast their associated spells.

Double checked and saw where I went wrong. I don't need to imbue them with mental focus but if I've chosen a group/school twice I do need two implements from that group. I'd just have to keep track of which spells I chose at which time.

I have a question on applying the Expanded Arcana to the new Occult classes.

This is how I interpret it so far.

Kineticist and Medium: Does not apply. The first doesn't have a spell list and the second receives all spells associated with the spirits chosen.

Mesmerist, Psychic, and Spiritualist: It should apply normally no adjustments needed.

Occultist: Here is where I run into questions. Normally if you want to get more than one spell for an Implement school you have to pick the school twice and imbue two different items with mental focus.
Example: You pick evocation twice at first level and chose Dancing lights, flare, burning hands and shocking grasp as your spells You would need two different wands, the first to cast dancing lights and burning hands and the second to cast flare and shocking grasp.

If you can use Expanded arcana to add spells of a school you have chosen how would it be handled?

Say you wait until you can cast 2nd level spells so you can pick 2 1st level spells with the feat, you get 1 0lvl, 3 1st and 1 2nd do you think you should be able to cast all of them (slots permitting) from one implement or would you have to imbue a second?
Thoughts?

Also, this should really be in the Rules forum, not the PFS forum.

My apologies, I just got back into gaming and don't know the process to well yet.

OK the Drawback for Crossblooded sorcerer is one less spell known per spell level.

Is that minimum one spell per level you can cast or do you spend one level with 3 spell slots and only lower level spells to use in them?

Example my sorcerer has a 16cha, and gains 4th level. Does he gain 1 2nd level spell known or does he have no spells known and 4 open 2nd level slots?

The FCBs for both classes are legal for play.

OK their own FCB are legal for play. check

Thank you

I would still like a definitive answer on the access (or not) to human FCB if an Aasimar has scion of humanity but I can get by with a human for my Crossblooded sorcerer for now.

On the next page of the thread Scion of Humanity gets a big thumbs down to using Human FCBs

The follow up post

John Compton wrote:

Dylos wrote:

On a related note, this means scion of humanity allows aasimars to take human fcbs too correct?

That came up in discussion, and it's one of the reasons that I worded the first entry the way that I did. At one point it read more like "Races that lack a similar racial trait do not count as a member of any other race for this purpose," but the decision was made to keep a race's options exclusive to that race except in special circumstances (e.g. one of the recent GM star reward Chronicle sheets).

Ok I looked at some of the posts on the tread and now I am thoroughly confused.

It looks like
1. I can't actually get Human FCBs with scion of humanity,and

2. Some of the posts seem to indicate that the Aasimar and Elf FCB for the oracle class have been banned as to powerful.

Does anyone KNOW if one or both of these are true or who I would contact to find out?

Kalan wrote:

Speaking of which. If I make a Cross blooded Sorcerer can I choose two Elementals as my bloodlines? air/fire, air/water, air/earth, earth/fire, earth/water, or water/fire?

No, because Elemental is a single bloodline, just like Draconic is one bloodline.

Sigh.. :P I suspected but it is still a bit of a letdown. Part of my mind says that if they went through the trouble of making outsiders (abyssal, celestial, and infernal) different bloodlines elementals and maybe even dragons should have been given the same consideration.

Maybe a future supplement of paraelemental bloodlines.
fire/earth = magma
earth/water = ooze

Ah well what is written is written I guess.

Keep in mind the spell known from that favored class bonus can't be of the highest level you can cast.

As to the aasimar alchemist, his enlarge person works just like the spell; it won't work on him unless he counts as a humanoid, which is where Scion of Humanity comes in.

The at least one level lower than highest I can cast I caught. But I think it could really be worth it in the right combo.

Speaking of which. If I make a Cross blooded Sorcerer can I choose two Elementals as my bloodlines? air/fire, air/water, air/earth, earth/fire, earth/water, or water/fire?

It allows you to benefit from spells and effects that only work on humanoids, such as enlarge person, as well as take human-only feats, favored class bonuses, and archetypes, so long as they aren't from the ARG (as the Additional Resources page says you absolutely MUST be a member of that specific race to use anything but equipment from that book).

For example, an aasimar with Scion of Humanity could take the Eclectic or Racial Heritage feats, both of which have "human" as a prerequisite, from the Advanced Player's Guide; alternatively, a Scion of Humanity oracle could use his favored class bonuses on either +1/2 level for revelation (aasimar, Advanced Race Guide) OR +1 spell known (human, Advanced Player's Guide).

Hmm thank you this is helpful. My original gaming group self destructed just as pathfinder was coming out. It is only in the last month that I met a guy at work that played, had openings in his group and had two members that PFS gm qualified. So I am playing major catch up.

The +1 spell known doesn't interest me for oracle but it does for a sorcerer with the Cross blooded arch type.

Which also brings up if I have an Aasimar Alchemist, will his own enlarge person extracts affect him?

Ahhh I shouldn't be so cranky. I understand that many player's try to over play their hands and make things difficult for everyone.

I just had an idea in mind that a human appearance wouldn't fit.. I do think Scion of humanity is useful for someone that wants to run a spy or other character where blending in is helpful or even necessary. However I have little skill with such characters and after the day I had I felt a little let down on my concept.

Ah well pick myself back up and think of something else.

Kalan wrote:

spells: He would be affected by spells that target outsider(native) or elf.

And that right there is a mechanical change. Its why you can't do it, and why campaign leadership comes down hard on allegedly cosmetic changes.

So what you are saying is other than that your Aasimar can easily pass for human, Scion of Humanity is essentially useless.

I KNOW that an Aasimar is an Aasimar. But if you can not "reskin" an Aasimar as you say the Scion of humanity trait would be disallowed.

I'll take your examples one by one using an elf scion.

spells: He would be affected by spells that target outsider(native) or elf.

favored class bonuses: He would only have access to Aasimar favored class bonuses.

bane weapons: He would be affected by baneweapons that target outsider(native) or elf for extra damage.

the only difference between an Aasimar human scion and an Aasimar Elf scion is what bane weapons or spells affect the Huminoid (insert a race)

I do NOT expect to get bow and elven sword proficiency if I play a elf scion. Nor do I expect to get battle axe and pick proficiency or for a Dwarf scion.

After all you don't get a bonus feat and +1 skill point/level for playing a human scion do you?

After reading the side bar on Aasimars that APPEAR to be a race other than human (elf, gnome, Half-orc, etc)am I right in that the ONLY mechanical difference is they LOOK like a gnome or half-orc? and in the case of the gnome reduced weapon damage,slower speed and attack and armor bonus due to size.

If this is right could I take the racial trait scion of humanity and replace Humanoid(Human) with Humanoid(Half-orc)(or elf) to represent an Aasimar that looked like a half-orc or an elf?

The big deal now with forward thinking businesses is sustainable growth over immediate profits.

Sounds familier. An investment company bought my place of employment 7 years ago. They're finally correcting some of the mistakes they made listening to the members from the former management that they kept on. The company is growing slowly but they are STILL making decisions without consulting the people that actually know how to make the product we produce. Then we're expected to fix the mess management made.

They make the decisions without us but we're expected to share (or even take all) the blame when something ends up screwed up.

Seems old habits die hard no matter what your income is.

The thought occurred to me that the code might be on a cd/dvd in the book. That wouldn't keep people from stealing the disk but at least it would be easier to tell if someone had.

I didn't learn much, and I'm not much more interested in 4th ed than I was before. The character portrait thing might have potential if it is highly, *highly* customizable. We'll see, I suppose.

I've never seen the City of Heros generator so I can't be sure BUT from the it looks like they have a good start (even if they only use one character) Height, weight, skin, hair(or lack of it)color were represented. Some armor and clothing color customization was shown.

Personally I think they need 10 or more body styles (At least different faces), of each sex of each Core race. The same for most of the armors and other equipment.

Hopefully they put in the effort.

I was able to get in just long enough to create an account, and then I got a "Service Unavailable" message.

- Ashavan

Looks like I'll have to wait till morning to even try to get a look at it.

Seems upper management is essentially the same every where. People in charge listen to the management team that is only hired because they have a college education. Said team (with no actual idea how the product is actually made) tells them "Sure we can do that. No problem." Token members that actually know what they are doing are

A. Not listened to if they have objections.

or

B. Informed later of any decisions the management team THINKS they nead to know.

Of course then you get a situation similar to the current one. Four hours and counting and still no stable web service.

Sorry had to rant. This is WAY to similar to the way my employer works for comfort right now.

Sorry; the official undead description (per the SRD) trumps the (incorrect) magazine feat description. Feel free to rule differently in your campaign, of course-- but in the core rules, undead are not immune to all spells that don't affect objects--they're only immune to the ones with Fort saves that don't affect objects. Peter von Bleichert (the feat's author) lacks the authority to alter the core rules of the game by his every mis-statement.

OK time to swallow my pride and sit corrected. After looking over the descriptions for both Undead and constructs I now wonder why they bothered with mentioning them at all. I looked up a few constructs and many are immune to any spell that allows spell resistance in the first place.

Kalan wrote:

As a Relicguarded spell does NOT affect objects it would not affect undead.

Nope; read the undead description again. Undead are creatures, not objects.

Please read the feat and it's description again

Relicguard Spell [Metamagic]
Your spells do not damage objects.

Benefit: A relicguarded spell has no effect on objects. It cannot target an object and any object caught within its area is immune to it's effects, even if a creature holding the item is affected. Creatures immune to spells that do not affect objects (SUCH AS CONSTRUCTS AND UNDEAD) are also immune to a relicguarded spell.

Undead have "immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)." They do not have blanket immunity to spells that don't work on objects... so a relicguarded fireball still damages undead, and a horrid wilting never affected them in the first place, with or without the relicguard feat.

As a Relicguarded spell does NOT affect objects it would not affect undead.

I was knocking around a character concept and remembered a feat from dragon 347 (pg 89) called Relicguard Spell as follows.

Relicguard Spell
[Metamagic]
Your spells do not damage objects.
Benefit: A relicguarded spell has no effect on objects. It cannot target an object and any object caught within its area is immune to it's effects, even if a creature holding the item is affected. Creatures immune to spells that do not affect objects (such as constructs and undead) are also immune to a relicguarded spell.

It's nice but there was no spell slot adjustment. Considering a Necromancer could let rip with area affect spells like fireball withe no fear of destroying his minions I was thinking the spell slot adjustment should be 2 or even 3. Any ideas?

Hmmm.... interesting take on Dwarven attitudes, dragonman! I will really have to take this into consideration. Does anyone know if the Mul race has been updated with 3e stats? Where could I find them?

Dragon #319 and Dungeon #110 are the Only "official" sources for Dark sun and Muls that I know of.

There is also an online forum at www.athas.org

But you see the sun doesn't go down! There is no night at all. The world has been shattered, and there are only a 1000 "islands," so the world is in a perpetual state of daytime.

My bad. I didn't realize the thread was tied to your shattered world campaign. Maybe you could do the will save every time they fall asleep instead.

"When one sleeps the other awakens."

Or something close to it?

What is the best way to deal with lycanthropes in a world without night? I am thinking that the alernate creature (wolf, rat, bear, whatever) wants out as much as the human does so there is a constant battle for control of the body. Perhaps whenever the lycnathrope is in a stressful situation, or experiences extreme emotion, he must make a will check. If he fails, the other creature comes out for a set amount of time. Each time he makes the save a cumulative -1 penalty is added to the check until the creature is released at last. Maybe in some cases, if the human form is evil, the lycanthorpe can willingly release control to the creature.

Thoughts? Ideas?

Since standard Lycanthropes change during the NIGHT of the full moon a 5 or 10 DC Will save each time the sun goes down with a cumulative +1 DC for each successfull save might work. They just change back when the sun comes up.

I know it sounds like Gargoyals(TM disney) or even the first few issues of the Hulk(3 ranks in comic geek) but it's simple and straight forward.