Joshua's page

Mounts have always been one of my favorite concepts regarding the fantasy genre in general. As such, I was also somewhat disappointed in the lack of improving mounts as the campaign wears on, much like Quijenoth and other posters. What I've done is I created a system where mounts are quantified as an "item" using the item level system in MIC (I know, ain't Paizo or PF, but bear with me), with a roughly analogous correlation between their CR and their effective item level - a CR 1 Worker Giant Ant might be valued as an item level 1 creature. This corresponds to the middle of the item level range, and certain traits that the creature in question has modifies it's level up or down by a certain amount - flight's an effective +1, while a timid nature's a -1, for instance. Using the above example, the Worker Giant Ant would be priced as an effective CR 2 creature because of it's possession of a Climb speed (+1), and thus cost 275 gp. For a higher level example, a Rust Monster would be an effective CR/item level 6 (base 3, +2 for Rust, +1 for Aberration type) and price it at 2,050 gp. Low-level exotic creatures could go below an item level of 1/2, and I just eyeballed a price of 3 gp for 1/6 "CR" and 15 gp for 1/3 "CR" with these bottom two tiers being there for anything that goes below an effective item level of 1/2.

Iunno, maybe you'd want to adopt something similar. It's worked pretty well for our game so far, since it gives a quick and easy way to give a price for an exotic creature (mount or not) and you can just more-or-less follow the standard Ride and Handle Animal rules from there. I'll just copy what I've been using for extra price modifiers in case anyone's interested.

*Edit - If you wanted to use such a system with standard mounts, maybe allow players to find elixirs or some such to advance their mounts by a CR or so and gain some HD to keep them competitive at higher levels?

Template(s)
Add Templates' CR increase(s); add other modifiers resulting from template(s)

Additional Movement Forms (any)
+1; applies once regardless of how many additional forms

Fast Fly Speed (speed 100 feet or more)
+1; stacks with Add. Movement Forms modifier

Highly Maneuverable (good or perfect)
+1; stacks with Add. Movement Forms modifier

Dragon or Outsider
+2

Aberration, Construct, Magical Beast, Plant, or Undead
+1

Non-Combatant (runs from all dangers)
-2

Timid (doesn't normally fight)
-1

Poisonous
+1

Ability Damage/Drain or Energy Drain
+2 per attack form

Breath Weapon / Damaging Natural Ranged Attack
+1

Swallow Whole
+2

Improved Grab
+1

Above-Animal Intelligence (Int 3+)*
+1

Brilliant Intellect (Int 13+)*
+1; stacks with Above-Animal Intelligence modifier

Spellcasting Ability
Add highest level spell available on a daily or at-will basis

* Creatures with either of these traits cannot be taught Tricks, and must spend a skill point to accept riding and battle training instead. These creatures are not otherwise subject to Handle Animal and must be reasoned with using Diplomacy and other social skills.

So, with the new upgrade to the paladin class, we can all agree that the paladin has stopped sucking. However, the fighter is still down in the dumps.

So here's my main suggestion:

Fighters should get special things from feats. At a certain fighter level, they should get bonuses tacked onto their abilities. For instance, let's take Improved Trip.

Improved Trip
Blah-blah-blah, description.

Special: On a successful trip attempt, a fighter does 1d6 + his CMB bonus points of damage. This bonus damage improves by +1d6 for every three fighter levels he has.

Toughness
Blah-blah-blah.

Special: A fighter gains +1 additional hit point per fighter level.

And so on, particularly with the "Improved Combat Maneuver" feats.

I do like the idea; however, I would take it even further - make these special maneuver options Fighter-only feats much in the same way that Weapon Specialization is. With the number of feats everyone has now, having bonus feats is less of a benefit in and of itself. Giving an array of special feats available with those bonus feats can put a little more sparkle back into the Fighter's ability set.

Also, I've heard a great many complaints about the Fighter's lack of ability to intercept (ie, tank) enemies and just general combat-control. These, too, could be made into feats, possibly with a Fighter level X requirement to give the Fighters options and boosts without changing their class features any. It might cut into the PHB2 Knight's territory, but, hey, we're talking about making a core class better to fulfill its intended versatility.

I kind of agree with your assessment, but unfortunately, wizards got a big boost in Pathfinder, rather than a nerf. And for all their new bells and whistles, the 3e fighter's main areas of weakness haven't been addressed:

1. Inability to disrupt spellcasting;
2. Inability to intercept enemies;
3. Inability to resist hold person, etc.;
4. Inability to inflict more than a scratch against stronger monsters with a hit (or even a full attack).

Also, combat maneuvers are now much harder for them to perform successfully, improved trip gives no free attack, and Power Attack is riskier and more limited.

That's a shame. A cursory glance at the feats available plus Fighter class features makes them look like they should be complete powerhouses even before accounting for Weapon Mastery, particularly with a two-handed weapon.

Edit: I did a quick-and-dirty build of a Fighter using a Falchion. Assuming that this Fighter specs into heavy blades at their earliest convenience, by 20th level this modest build has the following attack / damage output (assuming a starting Str of 16 and grabbing both a +5 weapon and a +6 Str item - I'm not even factoring in ability score increases by level gain). This fighter would pick up Weapon Focus, Weapon Spec, Greater Weapon Spec, Power Attack, and Improved Critical - these are the only feats I will assume.

Attack:

+20 BAB + 5 Fighter + 5 Weapon + 3 base Str + 3 enhanced Str + 1 Focus
+37 total (+31 when Power Attacking)
Critical Threat 15-20 (25% chance; auto-confirm threats)

Damage:
2d4 base damage + 5 Fighter + 5 Weapon + 9 combined base/enhanced Str + 2 Weapon Spec + 2 Greater Weapon Spec
2d4+23 per hit (2d4+29 when Power Attacking) [25-31/hit or 31-37/hit]
6d4+69 per crit (6d4+87 when Power Attacking) [75-93/crit or 93-111/crit]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the strongest direct-damage spell in Pathfinder I'm aware of caps at 40d6 (40-240 damage) at 20th level and requires a standard action to inflict once.

If our lousy build Fighter is fighting opponents that other members of the party can also hit with regular attacks, the Fighter should hit with at least two attacks per round. This means that, at a minimum, our fighter should be inflicting 62 damage/round before DR, etc. Not even close to the average damage of a single disintegrate, *but* our Fighter has a 25% chance with each attack to automatically inflict a minimum of 75 damage with a single strike. Said Fighter also has a 6.25% chance per round to threaten two crits, auto-confirming for a minimum combined total of 150 damage (and as much as 222 if Power Attacking). Assuming they only hit twice.

Our Fighter might not have the artillery power of a single disintegrate, but (s)he can keep doing it round after round, and with the auto-confirmation can be coupled with other damage increases (burst enhancements, speed, etc) to outpace even that rather large spell-damage burst.

Again, I'm not certain if this necessitates changes, but with a half-arsed build a Fighter can almost match the damage output of a caster chucking disintegrates every round without ever having to confirm a critical threat. As I said, this raises a flag with me, I just thought I'd put some numbers down to demonstrate the source of my concern.

Since Pathfinder Fighters are essentially getting a 5/4 BAB with their favorite weapons and free damage bonuses, coupling these already-noteworthy boosts with even larger burst damage capability just seems to give Fighters a little too much edge. Imagine a scythe-Fighter - only a 10% chance to auto-crit, but doing so for well over 100 damage per crit at a minimum. Just replacing Falchion stats with Scythe stats gives a crit damage range of 125-155 (10d4+115) without Power Attacking. Although I recognize that Fighters are already capable of significant damage output, much of it relies on a certain balance with critical hits. Critical hits themselves rely heavily on the confirmation mechanic to keep them from continually lopsiding a game. Removing that step means that critical hits will occur much, much, MUCH more often (my math is not good enough to provide a proof of this, but it's a lot) and when combined with inserted damage and attack bonuses it again just seems a little excessive.

As Kirth wrote, this doesn't change other issues with the Fighter - they are just as susceptible to status effects and save-or-die shennanigans, but in a DPS race I have a hard time seeing new Fighters losing to... well, anyone.

Thanks for the welcome.

Although the power of a Fighter relative to an equivalent level spellcaster is generally lacking, I have to wonder if these same comparisons hold true in Pathfinder. With the boosts in effectiveness that Fighters have received - both in feat selections and class abilities - a fighter is capable of higher damage and higher hit probability than before. Although a spellcaster can summon an outsider to do their bidding, it takes time that the Fighter can use to pummel on an opponent. As the Fighter does so, the Fighter (if they have a Keen weapon or Improved Critical - I have difficulty imagining a respectable mid-to-high level Fighter without either) has anywhere from a 10-25% chance of auto-critting per attack. Coupled with higher damage output as a baseline and with an even higher critical multiplier then before, it just seems like Fighters represent an even larger wild-card then spellcasters in Pathfinder, particularly if they have the opportunity to make a full attack.

That may not be a bad thing, but I should think that casters should be taken down a notch rather than granting Fighters the option to become the Insanoflex :)