JohnnyWhoa's page

I've greatly enjoyed using this book as a Kineticist player. It's such a vast class with so many different ways to play it, and expanding it with third party resources like this one makes it all the more interesting to me.

One question I've had for a while though, and I'm hoping to get some clarification on, is with regards to one of the new Composite blasts in this publication, Storm blast.

It's listed as an energy blast, but it says that it's part air (physical), part sonic (energy), with the damage being half electricity, half sonic. In addition, the description reads that "you assault the target with a clap of thunder and a bolt of lightning. This blast counts as air blast for the purposes of applying infusions."

Based on description, function, damage type and damage dealt, this sounds like an enhanced Electricity blast - shouldn't Electricity be the prerequisite and infusion base for this blast, instead of Air?

I'd appreciate any clarification on this.

Sorry for the necropost, but I have a new question about the archetype. This game has begun and my witch is INCREDIBLY fun to play. We've defeated our first wizard and she took his spellbook for use with the hoard. I understand that she has to sleep on it for a number of days per spell level to learn a spell from it, per the Witch's Hoard description:

Also, a witch can add a spell to his hoard from a wizard’s spellbook, if the spellbook is kept in the hoard and the spell is on the witch’s class spell list. The wyrmwitch must sleep on the spellbook in his hoard for a number of days equal to the spell’s level, after which he must succeed at a Spellcraft check (DC = 15 + spell level) to learn the spell.

My question is, how many days does she have to sleep on it to learn all of its spells? The book she got has two level 2 spells she can learn and one level 1 spell. Can she sleep on it for two days to learn them all? Or does she have to sleep for five days (two for the first spell, two for the second, one for the level 1)?

I presume the latter, but again, the wording of Legacy of Dragons was vague. I appreciate any advice on this!

Be that as it may, I still didn't want to break anything with it, so if I need the spells, I'll get them through wands and scrolls and such, rather than risk breaking the game. I'm pretty happy with the Tiefling I rolled up for her (Fiendish Heritage turned out interesting - in addition to that +2 INT I mentioned I also got a mammalian tail, so that'll be a fun design choice) and now all that's left to do is fine tune the details and wait for the game to begin!

My wife will be playing in this game too, and she's a wonderfully talented artist. The two of us love to brainstorm stories and scenarios, so we've been talking about our characters for this game. My birthday was yesterday, so she decided to design my Witch for me! Since you all helped me with her setup, I decided to share it here, largely because I'm still geeking out over it. Check it out!

Nevermind! I think I've found my answer: a cracked orange prism ioun stone will give me one more prepared spell, and that opens up some options for fun.

Thanks for chiming in options everyone! I was not aware of a lot of these and they'll definitely be considered with future characters! Much appreciated!

Those are all nice options, but I'm largely looking for either a new slot or some at-wills - I'm strongly considering the Tatterdemalion archetype, which locks 3 of my cantrips permanently as prestidigitation, mage hand, and open/close - certainly not bad choices, but the fourth then will pretty much always have to be detect magic. I'm a big fan of small cantrips like Light, Mending and, through a trait, Create Water, however, so I'm looking for ways to add something to that mix.

Sorry, I should have specified what I used Fiendish Heritage for - that was to be able to take the three rolls on the tables and pick an alternate ability and physical feature, not to take one of the alternate pre-builts. I got absurdly lucky and rolled a 46 on the abilities table, netting me an additional +2 to INT, so I'm not about to give that up. That does still require the feat, right?

I didn't think it'd work, but thanks for confirming. That trait almost feels like a drawback more than a trait with how much it takes, but I can see how they may have felt that Tieflings needed nerfed at one point.

And @Zza Ni: I saw that one, but it's pretty clearly written as a wizards only thing, so I don't want to cheese it and try to qualify for something I can't. Any other good options you can think of?

This one may be obvious, but I've never seen a trait so utterly rip apart a feat before. Can you benefit from the alternate racial abilities granted by the Fiendish Heritage Feat(which replaces the Darkness SLA) if you take the Infernal Bastard Trait, which removes the standard See in Darkness SLA?

I ask because I'm rolling a Tiefling Witch and could use more level 0 spell slots. If you can't benefit from that, then I'm not interested in this one as an option, but does anyone know of other options?

@ TheMonkeyFish I agree with GM Rednal - Kineticist is the best at powering up from self inflicted damage, and built properly, they can crank out insane damage. If you want something martial that does the same job, Kineticist archetypes might be for you. Kinetic Knight, Kinetic Ascetic or the Dreamscarred Press Roil Dancer are right up your alley.

I also agree with Avr. I love the Kineticist, I've played several, and I think my friends think I'm a masochist. They chide me about it quite a bit but nothing more than playful dogging, but I can see how some groups could get out of hand with it.

I didn't think Mystic Past Life was terribly overpowered when I first saw it. Abused, it certainly could be, but kept in check, not so much. The guy who will be DMing that game agreed but one of the other players, who has a lot more DMing experience, thought it was crazy OP. I talked to him about it and still didn't think it was quite so bad...

Until finding out about the Ring of Spell Knowledge, and realizing this trait is basically six of those with no level cap or item slot. That's admittedly pretty absurd.

My DM was still comfortable with it, but I wasn't. So I've switched building her into a Tiefling... which worked out pretty well, when I picked Fiendish Heritage, rolled a 46 and got another +2 to Intelligence. Level 1, 22 Intelligence score. Hell yes.

Thanks again for everyone weighing in on this. My choices have changed a bit since my original build for her but this has helped me choose my Wyrm Witch patron quite nicely. Thanks again!

If you want this guy to be a recurring NPC who can hold his own against a party, I might recommend a Kineticist. Select Aether as his first element and air as his second at level 7.

They're somewhat complicated to make, but the abilities are very interesting and may prove a unique challenge to your party, especially if you make him take advantage of the human favored class bonus for Kineticists (gain 1/6 of a Wild Talent Feat).

So... you want to play as Meowth? That's an... odd concept that I can't imagine being worth a feat.

If you want to make it viable and in good standing with existing concepts though, I might propose this:

Payday (SU)

Prerequisites: Catfolk, 5th Level
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). On a successful strike with an unarmed, natural or one-handed melee weapon, in addition to dealing damage normally, you may attempt a Steal Combat Maneuver that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You gain a +2 bonus to this attempt. This bonus stacks with those granted by effects such as Improved Steal. You may use Payday once per day at first level, plus one more time per day for every four levels thereafter.

I based it off of how Stunning Fist operates. This way it's got some viability to it and can still be used for what you're trying to accomplish, albeit without polymorphing blood into money.

No worries on that here - my GM's cool. The whole group I play with likes to favor fun and flavor over just being a dick to our players and each other. Which probably shouldn't be as rare as it is, but I've read these message boards, so I'll count myself lucky.

While you're absolutely right about a Wyrmwitch being able to just sleep on her purse, I'm going to play it for flavor. Start off literally sleeping on gold, spend some excess down the line on junk, maybe ultimately just buy an extraordinarily expensive and large pillow, empty it and fill it with gold. Bean bag chair bond. Either that or just hoard useless items, steal a dumpster (clean it with prestidigitation (traits!)) and fill it with goodies. And then live in it.

WOW that is a poorly written archetype, you weren't kidding. It's easy to correct for players and DMs, of course, but still, wow.

And yeah, the Wyrmwitch's hoard is a bit ambiguous. I feel like it probably needed some harder structure to it, but I'm happy as it is. I just love the flavor of it, and I don't expect my DM to grief me on it. He's cool.

And finally... Yeah, that's the OTHER reason I passed on the Chromatic list. It's nice that it gives an easy way to learn those spells but in an archetype that lets me go wizard hunting for power, I don't need it!

Well, with Pathfinder 2.0 around the corner, maybe we'll see an improvement on that front. Thanks for the feedback and advice everyone!

Based on what I've looked into and picked up on from here, I'm looking at a Samsaran Wyrmwitch (no secondary archetype), picking up a few wizard, bard and summoner spells using Mystic Past Life, and the Outer Dragon Patron. Should be a fun character, and I'm looking forward to playing it.

Yes, the Wyrmwith ability should say it alters the Patron Spells ability, but do you honestly believe the archetype grants a second patron without explicitly saying so?

Hell no. As fun as that would be, it's way too strong without giving anything up, as we pointed out. I haven't read Legacy of Dragons, so I wasn't aware it was full of mistakes like that one, so I had to question it.

None, they're one and the same.

Is there any given reason why they're both pointed out in the Witch's text, then? My understanding was indeed that they were one in the same but it feels weird that they're both mentioned. Another editing/printing irregularity?

Good choice! The Dual Cursed Oracle is an excellent archetype and its revelations are well worth taking. You're basically a walking hero point generator for missed rolls, and that's just fantastic.

For spells, unfortunately the level 1 Cleric and Oracle list was a little boring until some recent additions. That said...

Command and Forbid Action are very helpful if you use them right.
Bless and Bane are both decent low level options.
Summon Minor Monster is a surprisingly powerful spell if you choose the right animals (like weasels!).
Depending on the campaign, Remove Sickness may prove incredibly helpful, and your party does have a few low-fortitude characters.
Obscuring Mist never goes out of style.
The new Ironbloom Sprouts spell is basically Goodberry with a twist, and Goodberry is a very underrated spell.
Bleeding Strike is good against anything with a pulse.
Murderous Crow is interesting in the hands of a clever player.
And Murderous Command can really mess with an enemy party on a failed will save.

Hope these recommendations help!

I'm sure it's likely a RAW vs RAI thing, but I can imagine a case for both.

RAW would imply you get both patrons, which only adds additional spells known. Powerful and helpful to be sure, but the archetype does have some drawbacks. The witch's hoard is basically an arcane bond you can't enchant, have to pay for and have to lug around with you everywhere, and is pretty easy to steal from, depending on your GM. The extra spells known could be a bonus to make up for that, as you do lose the versatility of a familiar for it as well.

The RAI argument would be as you just said, and the one I've been reading it as to this point. It just takes the place of the Witch's normal patron and is not written as clearly or accurately as it could be. It may need some errata to follow and correct it.

I expect it's likely the latter, for the same reasons you did, but it might be something to fix on the Wyrm Witch's entry.

Alright, my last question for the Witch is actually something that applies to all Witches, that being how their patron spells work. As written, it says that "At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, a witch’s patron adds new spells to a witch’s list of spells known. These spells are also automatically added to the list of spells stored by the familiar." What is the difference between a Witch's spells known and spells stored by their familiar? I was under the impression that they were one in the same. Is that the case, or do they work similar to the Shaman's Spirit Magic or something?

Archives of Nethys has definitely been a great resource, I have to agree.

Mirror Witch is something I definitely considered, but for a class with such a bad fortitude save, Ley Line scared me right off. Staggered for minutes per spell level is a scary thought.

Reading over Wyrm Witch, I've noticed a few things that can possibly make or break it for me, and one thing in particular that is absolutely game breakingly good if it works as written.

The first relates to the Witch's hoard being able to cast a spell. Does this work like a wizard's arcane bond, enabling the Witch to cast a free spell once per day without expending a slot? Or does it still expend a slot, but allows basically one "spontaneous" cast?

The other thing I noticed is that no where in the archetype does it actually say that any ability replaces or alters patrons or patron spells, unlike other archetypes that lock witches into certain patrons. Instead, it just says that the witch selects one of the draconic patrons under an ability by a different name (Draconic Patronage). As written, does that imply the witch still has a choice of a standard patron as well? If so, that is an incredibly powerful choice.

I'm leaning toward a half-elf with Eldritch Heritage, so I suppose I could make Synergist work with it by taking a familiar through that ability. It's definitely something to consider, at least.

You seem pretty familiar (HAH) with Witches and their archetypes. If I wasn't taking Wyrmwitch, what would you recommend? It's always good to keep options open and this campaign probably won't begin for several months yet anyway.

I looked at Chromatic and liked the list, but depending on the role played by a patron in the story I don't know if I want to be bound to an evil dragon. I just got through doing that as a kineticist and that royally screwed over my party (in, to be fair, a thematically and plot-based awesome kind of way).

I've heard Invoker highly regarded a few times but it doesn't seem that useful to me, not enough to cost 3 hexes anyway. The ability to reduce a target's SR is amazing of course and the various enhancement bonuses to physical scores are nice, but I don't know how much use I'd get out of them.

What about for battlefield control, and good recommendations for this archetype's patron/other mixed archetypes there?

I'm making my first Witch, and I've absolutely fallen in love with the new Wyrmwitch archetype (seen here: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-a rchetypes/wyrmwitch-witch-archetype/ ). I love the idea of a bonded hoard of treasure and/or junk items (dumpster witch!), particularly considering how much easier it makes learning new spells. But I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the archetype or any suggestions they might offer?

I'm looking into rolling either a buffing/debuffing witch, a cursing witch and/or a "chance" witch (a la Ill Omen and its ilk), and I'm having some trouble choosing a patron. Your thoughts, community?

Also, what compatible archetypes would you recommend to go along with this? I like a lot of the flavor of Tatterdemalion, but it doesn't seem terribly useful. I also find it hilarious that Synergist is TECHNICALLY compatible with this archetype (even though it clearly wouldn't do anything).

Thanks!