No Chain Challenge in a planned cavalier build makes me cry....
Thank you. Had never seen this feat. It's amazing. If Calaveras sees a level 7 he will most certainly take it. Pretty much a must have for builds dedicating levels as a Cavalier.
RegUS PatOff wrote:
Seems like a Combat Patrol with a 90 foot threatened area (10+80) should be worth setting up in most large area fights. Are you finding the first round of your encounters are too short ranged, or what?
I've played with GMs who routinely set up combats at melee 20-40 feet separation between the party & opponents without thinking. When we pointed out we had a character heavily invested in archery, some would make an effort to use perception to redetermine the range, while others did not.
Exactly, RegUS PatOff - encounters were too short ranged to make use of Thistle's mobility for Combat Patrol. And ... there were just never too many AoS's to ahrvest. For a dedicated charger with other tricks the CR + CP chain was a non-event in this three module adventure thread. And likely too situational in any standard campaign to be cosidered a good option to be used within a dedicated charger build. This even considering Emissary Cavaliers get Mobility for free.
Sunbeam wrote:
The big beef with one is that rightly or wrongly they are identified as being too ... interlaced with the mount or something. I mean of the attractions to me would be to make a mounted character and really use Spirited Charge and the other mounted feats.
Yep, goes without saying that a mounted combatant is deeply interlaced with the mount. Mounted combat is a team sport. This is as true for Cavaliers with Animal Companions as it is for a Roughrider Fighter that is buying or training more mundane mounts. If you don't want to build and play your PC as a tandem, then you likely won't have much fun. I really liked the idea of a halfling and his canine buddy facing the world together, and enjoyed the extra roleplaying opp's and combat possibilities this afforded. But it's not for everyone.
Sunbeam wrote:
Of course this brings us to the issue of fitting into places. I see you are playing a halfling, but how bad would it really be if you did play a medium size paladin? I guess if you are in Nirmathas you have a lot of outdoors stuff, but is the mount thing really as crippling as everyone says? Just thinking I can think of a lot of time in my experience you couldn't have used a mount, but a lot of times you could.
It would have sucked. The gods of the boards are right. You don't want a Large mount for most campaigns. While there was plenty of wide open roaming to be had in the Nirmanthas wilds, the city encounters in Tamran and the dungeon crawls in both Crypt of the Everflame and the City of Golden Death would have robbed me of my mount.
If you're playing a PC with a minor in mounted combat - like maybe most Paladin builds - and a major in other tricks, then a Large mount isn't going to be a drag. Like you said, there are plenty of times when you're not in a dungeon or tavern or similar. But if you're majoring in mounted combat, then you want to be Small.
Sunbeam wrote:
Actually it seems to me that mechanically it would have worked in a lot of situations, but you basically don't stay mounted all the time. Like everyone is on foot looking at some kind of obelisk and you are the only guy staying on horseback. Just doesn't fit even a lot of outdoor situations.
Wow! Was just logging in to close out this thread with the read out of our final session in the City of Golden Death. Thank you all who replied. Will provide a read out in one post. And then reply to that with my own thoughts on your advice and questions.
First, the read out. Charge damage and the mobility granted by Thistle continued to be the story in battle. Overall, continued to blossom through levels 5 and 6 in my role as the primary damage dealer, or "hammer", as I moved form being an under armored reach fighter to a real mounted terror.
Charge:
Got off 3 in one fight that resulted in more or less solo-ing a pair of caryatid columns (a CR5 encounter for a 6th level party). Though lost not one, not two, but three mundane lances on their stone skin. (As an aside, would def recommend chargers carry multiple lances. It happens.) The rest of the party has by now absorbed creating and maintaining charge lanes into their own movement which helped me get off 1 or 2 more than I would have otherwise. And was really just nice to see as a team dynamic - we've learned how to carve up the mat as a unified crew. Still riding a MED mount w nothing fancy as a charger - no Spirited Challenge or unorthodox multiplier. Just Power Attack and Cavalier's Charge.
Key Charge Lesson: Have seen many posts on how to out damage a Tarasque using some combo of charge mechanics. That said, you can still own CR-appropriate encounters with just Power Attack and x2 damage.
Combat Reflexes and Combat Patrol:
Just didn't use 'em. A waste of two feats.
On Combat Reflexes - Just weren't too many combats with more than 4 or 5 opponents on the map. And of those, just one or two had an AoO presented.
On Combat Patrol - Found it never made sense to settle in for a full round action when there were never more than a two opponents in threat range. Maneuvering for a charge, moving to full attack with my guisarme, or using my speed to cut off attackers headed at our squishies seemed to always be better uses of actions.
Key Combat Reflexes / Combat Patrol Lessons: Don't take them if you're a dedicated charger. Tactic synergy just isn't there. Seems really only appropriate for a reach focused pole arm build.
Other Cavalier Tactics:
Challenged twice (my daily limit), and continued to find that th Challnge damage mchanic does seem to scale well. Was at +6 for this adventure. Also, performed two trips. Covered charge above. Cannot overstate how important the mobility is in general. Combined with Thistle's Spring Attack and my Ride-By-Attack was able to harry with impunity. Found I could ride around and through opponents to cut them down. And then use speed (giving up an AoO here or there) to get in a defensive position if the squishy oracle and sorcerer were in trouble. Or too simply flank with the rogue.
Key Cavalier Tactics Lessons: Was most surprised at how effective a Cavalier is just doing typical martial stuff without chargng or Challenging: full attacking, landing the occasional combat maneuver, and soaking up attacks. Certainly not the pure DPR power as a Fighter or Barbarian in a standard round. But good enough to do the job as the party's hammer and sometimes tank. Throw in Challenge and charge and felt Calaveras was more than equal.
Fun Factor:
Not much role playing in this final session. We started inside a ruined city and wrapped up as soon as we took out the Boss. So fun to be had was all on the mat. And will have to say ... it's a blast riding around skewering things. Would compare building a character to land a charge, and then landing them reliably, to th same feeling I got in 2nd edition with a magic user tossing Fireballs. So good. :>
Doing an update for Sessions 4 and 5 as we're about to wrap up the mini campaign we've been weaving from Mask of the Living God to the City of Golden Death. So far we've infiltrated and dismantled the cult as 3rd/4th level characters, and then explored the forbidden city. We've tracked the Razmiran cultists to the city center and had our first scuffle with them. Of note is the discovery of horseshoes of the zephyr in the Razmiran temple in Tamran that makes Thistle's speed a whopping 80 ft.
- medium mount: even on four legs with plausible questions from the DM, very adaptable in any terrain/conditions; no problem moving up stairs (with a low acro check) or on narrow ledges; even done some swimming (treading)
- charges: at 4th level have started to move past a pure reach tactician into more of a charger; charge tactics are really comign into their own w Cavalier's Charge (3rd) and 2 uses of Challenge (4th); saw nova, encounter ending moments with being able to charge and silence guards at opposite ends of a hallway in consecutive rounds and with the baubau guardian on the island - DM had himteleport back and forth across the bridge to stay out of reach but w a speed of 80 all that tactic accomplished was to set up righteous charge lanes
- trips: continues to be a great, situational tactic; Thistle doesn't hit often (see below), but when she does has then landed a trip or two; lot of fun when she does; aside from that Calaveras has found he can trip pretty reliable w his guisarme; have come to appreciate the value of denying a flanked or surrounded combatant their attack for a round versus simply damaging them; will be picking up tandem trip w Thistle at 6th so expecting this to become a really deadly tactic
- challenges: interestingly, as the marquee class feature of the cavalier, have been surprised there are game days i don't ever challenge a foe; tend to hoard for obvious single threats (like the babau), but don't always see them; in looking at the cav bf playing one was concerned the challenge would be too limited in availability to be a factor; hasn't been which has been a nice surprise; and oh the joy when it's up
- combat reflexes/combat patrol: have used combat reflexes once; once!; such a waste, received combat patrol at 5th, but have yet to use it; am not thinking this will happen, and have concluded the combat patrol effect isn't so much a nice complement to the emissary cavalier's natural mobility as it is ineffective; have found to guard the party it's more effective to simply use that speed and those acro checks to find flanks and head off mooks
- Thistle: have found it's fun to see a little personality emerging; have been surprised at how often Thistle doesn't hit; she's basically 80 ft of free movement a round; which is great - can totally alter an encounter - but had thought the AC would be more of a factor
- fun factor: still high; munchkins on wolves are just a blast; have emerged as a clear tank on the battlefield even w limited armor and surprised at ability to dispatch both mobs and tougher, single combatants with equal efficiency if different tactics
Session 3: This session found our band journeying to the great city of Tamran via boat. The cruise was eventful w the DM rolling someinteresting random encounters. All aboard our little merchant boat (he had a great boat battle map to supplement the story).
- interestingly, ship board combat on the wolf proved not to be a problem fr a maneuverability perspective though Thistle's speed advantage was muted
- the primary tactic continued to be exploiting a newly purchased guisarme at reach
- trips: landed a killer trip ona river hag that boarded the boat and passed around AoO goodness to the rest of the party
- charged: not once!
- challenges: just one challenge vs a cult leader that landed serious damage throughout the fight
- fun factor: very fun if different than expected; as many have commented, the cav can hold his own even w/o a mount and this ahs proven true; am also having fun w Know and Survival checks out of combat as the xtra cav skill points provide a little more fun when not charging (or trying to charge) things
Session 1: This session really proved the value of a reach weapon. Between Thistle's 50 ft movement and the mindlessness of his opponets, Calaveras was able to make good use of his lance against the skeletons on the first level of the crypt.
- no charges
- no challenges
- 4 AoO's based on skeletons moving past reach of lance
- fun factor: ...
Session 2:
- charged twice: nearly one shotted a giant frog and did what apperaed to be good damage against an undead BBEG in the crypt in the final encounter
- 1 challenge vs the BBEG in the final encounter
- 2 AoO's based on skeletons movig past reach of lance
See a lot of posts asking for advice on builds. And those ideas are generally awesome! However, it's rare to get a trip result on the results of those builds where it counts - on the mat. Started this log to do just that: report to the boards the game play results of this theorycrafted build. What follows is one Cavalier's romp through Nirmanthas ...
Calaveras O'Huckabee Beckwhistle:
Calaveras deplores the "civilized" aristocracy of Taldor who lack the self-sufficiency of the hardy frontier he fiercely defends in Nirmathas. When not working as a tracker, courier, and messenger between local farms he serves as a deacon in the local congregation of Erastil. An inadvertent racist, declarative sexist, and outspoken cultural conservative, Calaveras is also brave and true.
RACE: Halfling
CLASS: Emissary Cavalier (Order of the Sword)
ROLE: "striker", "wilderness scout", "hammer", "foil" (for strong female characters, aristocrats, or whiny spell casting types)
ALIGNMENT: LN
STR 15
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10
leveling bonuses going to STR
TRAITS
Helpful (+4 vs +2 for aid another; useful for Thistle's trips and overly dependent members who constantly need help helping themselves)
Militia Veteran (+2 survival and class skill; seriously, it's dangerous out there and someone has to hunt if the "too-tall-for-their-own-good" associates are going to eat anything beside hard tack and barley wine)
SKILLS
maxing Ride through lvl 6; attention to Survival, K(Nobility), K(Religion), and Sense Motive(can smell a snake even as they slither close ...)
FEATS
1. Power Attack
B. Mounted Combat
3. Combat Reflexes
5. Combat Patrol
B. Mobility
6. Ride By Attack
7. Wheeling Charge
B. Spirited Charge
9. Tandem Trip
B. Trick Riding
Thistle
MOUNT: Wolf
CLASS: Charger Archetype
leveling bonuses going to STR; starter ranks in Survival and Swim; attention to Intimidate and Acrobatics
FEATS
1. Toughness
B. Armor (Light)
2. Power Attack
5. Spring Attack
B. Mobility
8. Tandem Trip
10. Impr Overrun
Baked into this on-going experiment are a couple ground rules.
1) We're playing Crypt of the Everflame and a related set of modules. Please refrain from spoilers or plot twists!
2) This isn't a playtest of the Cavalier class. It's a play test of a "deliberately mounted" Cavalier. Fully recognize there are many, many ways to build a fun, effective Cavalier. Or for that matter, a fun, effective mounted build that's not a Cavalier. However, what excited me about the Cavalier was the role playing possibilities enabled by the Order, the role playing / tactical elements of the Cavalier-Mount team, and the imagery / tactical fun of mounted combat - so that's what we're doing here.
3) Builds represent tactical and roleplaying choices. Results on the mat, in terms of fun, represent the value of the tactical choices. As this build progresses I'll be testing the results of those choices. In this case, the results of focusing on mounted combat, AoO's, and tripping from a (mostly) tactical perspective:
- party contributions: What contrbutions, in and out of combat, does a small, mounted Cavalier with a few extra skill ponts add to the party's survival? When is Calaveras most effective?? Least effective??
- mounted charge as a tactic: How many times is Calaveras able to charge? What effect did those charges have??
- mounted tactics in general: Are mounted combat feats really required to make mounted combat effective? Which mounted tactics work best?? What is most fun about playing a mounted character??
- trip as a tactic: Between a wolf Mount's free trip attacks and a guisarme tripping at reach, does tripping make a battlefield difference?
- Combat Reflexes as a feat choice: How many AoO's does this feat net over the course of a campaign? What effect do these have??
- Combat Patrol as a feat choice: How many AoO's does this feat net over the course of a campaign? What effect do these have??
Build Commentary:
The Build in Action: Thistle and Calaveras are a team built to move. Most time is spent on the mount: scouting ahead above ground, tracking, interposing bt squishies and threats in combat, and charging hard targets when possible.
With a mounted speed of 50 ft and relatively quick access to feats like RBA and Wheeling Charge, Calaveras is focused on hit-and-run strikes as a go-to with charge added in when lanes appear to do so. But he also has a few tricks up its sleeve when he has to defend. Fast dismounts are always an option when called for using Thistle as a welcome flanking companion.
Central to the build is Combat Reflexes at lvl 3 that takes advantage of a hi dex and a reach weapon. Then, leveraging Mobility as a bonus feat at level 5 for both Mount and Cavalier by providing easy access to Combat Patrol for the cavalier and Spring Attack for the Mount. Combat Patrol combined w up to 4 AoO's provides a nice option for situations where Calaveras needs to lock down a perimeter for other party members. Or to simply whittle down the competition when a mounted attack and/or charge aren't possible.
Later, the ability to Trip comes into play w Calaveras using secondary attacks w his guisarme (reach, trip) or AoO's to trip w Thistle benefiting fr a Large size and a free Trip ability. Tandem Trip as a teamwork feat provides both Mount and Cavalier extra fun.
And of course, charging. I don't know why, but I love to charge! Serious damage when it happens through early levels. Then, by mid-levels, encounter ending multipliers begin to take hold - the Charger archetype's ability to add half he Cavalier's Challenge damage, the OoSword's ability to pile on mount strength, and x3 pointyness w Spirited Charge. Initially supported by other party members creating lanes sporadically. Later by Wheeling Charge giving a surprise option now and then. And then Impr Overrun if we ever get that high.
Had a question for any watching this thread. [bold] Any thoughts on the Cm bat Reflexes-Mobility-Combat Patrole chain for a Cavalier? [/bold]
Am about to go Lvl 3 in a homebrew campaign. Have a Dex of 18 w Emissary archetype. Was thinking it synergized well w the Emissary's flavor, and would provide a nice tactic for situations where a charge or RBA are simply not available.
See last Wednesday's post above for the full build.
How are you getting Spring Attack without prereqs?
GREAT QUESTION!
I probably won't :)
I had written it down, and meant to replace it with potentially Armor (Medium). I have all this stuff written out elsewhere and was kind of working of memory. thanks for the catch.
@Ubercroz: Could still get Spring Attack, but would need to go Emissary archetype. Your Mount gets Mobility as a bonus feat at 5. Your Mount's feats would be:
B. Armor (Light)
1. Toughness
2. Power Attack
B. Mobility
5. Spring Attack
Thanks for starting this thread, Tark. Also believe the Cavalier deserves some love. Below is my Cavalier built for a homebrew campaign starting with the module Crypt of the Everflame and hopefully continuing on ..
Calaveras O'Huckabee Beckwhistle
"Roughriding Defender of the Frontier"
The Build:
BACKSTORY: Campaign backdrop is a frontier setting in Nirmanthas w a fiercely independent set of NPC's in town of Kassen. Calaveras is a wolf-riding messenger, scout, and deacon in Erastil's local congregation. He's an ornery halfling with a cultural indulgence to Erastil's more traditional (i.e., sexist) side, a deeply critical knowledge of the aristocracy (soft and unfit to rule those whoc an take care of themselves), and a powerful allegiance to defending the independence of Nirmanthas' free folk. Halflings are generally cut as jolly and accommodating. I wanted to do the opposite while still playing a character that was ultimately noble and brave.
RACE: Halfling
CLASS: Emissary Cavalier (Order of the Sword)
ROLE: "striker", "wilderness scout", "hammer", "foil" (for strong female characters or hoity-toity spell casting types)
ALIGNMENT: CG
STR 15
DEX 18
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 10
leveling bonuses goign to STR
TRAITS
Helpful
Militia Veteran
SKILLS
maxing Ride through lvl 6; attention to Survival (via Militia Veteran), K(Nobility), K(Religion), and Sense Motive
FEATS
1. Power Attack
B. Mounted Combat
3. Combat Reflexes
5. Combat Patrol
B. Mobility
6. Ride By Attack
7. Wheeling Charge
B. Spirited Charge
9. Tandem Trip
B. Trick Riding
Thistle
MOUNT: Wolf
CLASS: Charger Archetype
leveling bonuses going to STR
FEATS
1. Toughness
B. Armor (Light)
2. Power Attack
5. Spring Attack
B. Mobility
8. Tandem Trip
10. Impr Overrun
Build Commentary:
Thistle and Calaveras are a team built to move. Most time is spent on the mount: scouting ahead above ground, tracking, interposing bt squishies and threats in combat, and charging hard targets when possible.
With a mounted speed of 50 ft and relatively quick access to feats like RBA and Wheeling Charge, Calaveras is focused on hit-and-run strikes as a go-to with charge added in when lanes appear to do so. But he also has a few tricks up its sleeve when he has to defend. Fast dismounts are always an option when called for using Thistle as a welcome flanking companion.
Central to the build is Combat Reflexes at lvl 3 that takes advantage of a hi dex and a reach weapon. Then, leveraging Mobility as a bonus feat at level 5 for both Mount and Cavalier by providing easy access to Combat Patrol for the cavalier and Spring Attack for the Mount. Combat Patrol combined w up to 4 AoO's provides a nice option for situations where Calaveras needs to lock down a perimeter for other party members. Or to simply whittle down the competition when a mounted attack and/or charge aren't possible.
Later, the ability to Trip comes into play w Calaveras using secondary attacks on his lance or AoO's to trip (at reach) and Thistle benefiting fr a Large size and a free Trip ability. Tandem Trip as a teamwork feat provides both Mount and Cavalier extra fun.
And of course, charging. Serious damage when it happens through early levels. then, by mid-levels, serous, encounter ending multipliers begin to take hold - the Charger archetype's ability to add half he Cavalier's Challenge damage, the OoSword's ability to pile on mount strength, and of course Spirited Charge. All supported sporadically by other party members creating lanes initially. Later by Wheeling Charge giving a surprise option now and then. And then Impr Overrun near the end of most campaigns.
Love it, Akinra! Wall of Fire is the 4th level domain spell for Fire domain, and have had great fun with it already. Cast it pretty much every session. But never would have linked it's low-level, but constant, damage output to Daze. Even w/o any Dazing hijinks it's a fantastic control spell. And a legitimate damage threat to undead.
I'll look to add Dazing to my metamagic repertoire as soon as possible - likely with a rod. For a dancing, Fire-domain evangelist there's just wonderful flavor in sheeting a line of baddies in a curtain of flame, and then dazing them with your divine will.
Will also check-in on ability to retrain feats. Not sure if the DM allows. But "yes" at this stage of the game those 2 extra channels aren't doing me a lot of good.
Much appreciate the advice all. As I look at it now, Divine Interference is just too good to pass up. Especially for a character whose role has evolved over the course of the campaign to buff. Will take it for 11th. And will be sure to clarify how it'll work w the DM bf I try to use it.
Will then take Quicken for 13th. Will have 7th level spells at that point so able to Quicken 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level. Really like Divine Favor for this purpose. Or a Quickened Fireball for the 7th domain slot.
Am going to abandon any feat help for defeating spell resistance. With the ability to craft Dweomer's Essence relatively cheaply, and some good die rolls, should be able to make do. And failing that there's always just unsheathing the scimitar!
Awesome Fruian! Had never heard of Dweomer's Essence. For a character that already can Craft Wond Items and is looking to counter SR that's a perfect suggestion. I like it much better than soaking up a feat (and spell level) w Piercing Spell.
Will think on taking up Craft Rod.
Will def pick-up Quicken.
Have you used Divine Interference in play? Looks like it could be powerful.
Seeking the advice of the boards for my Cleric (Evangelist). Character concept is a Sufi-inspired zealot with the Fire domain that dances herself into a fervor for the glory of Sarenrae. (DM allowed me to re-skin dance instead of oration for the Evangelist archetype.) Best stats are WIS (24 with level/stat boosts) and Dexterity (22 with level/racial boosts. Rest of he party is a Ranger, Paladin, Rogue, Wizard, and Fighter.
Am 11th level Human playing in LoF AP and would like to plan feats for 11, 13, 15. Current feats are Extra Channel (H), Weap Finesse (1), Dervish Dance (3), Craft Wond Item (5), Impr Init (7), Pers Spell (9).
Have a couple ideas that I'd love comment on ...
Flagbearer + Banner Ancient Kings: Drop the scimitar and embrace her buffing capabilities. Could craft the Banner herself.
Quicken Metamagic: High enough now to cast quickened spells. Would fit the whirling, swirling dervish theme.
Glorious Heat: Flavorful for a Fire domain focused caster. And she is the party healer.
Combat Reflexes: She has a high dex and is a self-described whirlign dervish. Why not?
Spell Penetration + Greater Spell Penetration: Starting to see things w SR. Worth it for a cleric or just stick w memorizing a handful of spells (there some decent ones) that don't have SR.
i have a human beastrider (medium) on a tiger (large).
when i make an attack can I....
1) cavalier, make a ride-by attack charge with his lance.
MOVE -> ATTACK (at 1 foot with the lance) -> MOVE AGAIN (for the ride-by attack) and arrive in melee
2) at this point my tiger make is CHARGE attack.
stop in melee
or can't I make the second charge attack (tiger) because in the same round I maked a charge with her cavalier?!?
my second battle option is....
1) cavalier, make a ride-by attack charge with his lance.
MOVE -> ATTACK (at 1 foot with the lance) -> MOVE AGAIN (for the ride-by attack) and arrive in melee
2) at this point the tiger make a single attack (spring attack) and run away always under her standard speed (not double)
this second too is valid or not?
thanks a lot
bumping a I have a similar question for the wisdom of the boards ...
* Moment of Greatness (Cleric 1): Doubles, yes doubles, existing morale bonuses for any one roll. Doesn't sound like much, but when opening combat with a Bard providing Inspiring Courage - or a Cleric (Evangelist Archetype) doing same - it can provide a meaningful first strike boost to the entire party. Especially after Inspire Courage becomes a move action at 7th level. 50 foot radius. Minute per level. Affects only allies. Just a 1st level spell.
Very cool idea. Sticking with OP solicitation for a gunslinging monk, am thinking 12 levels pure Monk maybe isn't crazy talk.
Perhaps the Wanderer archetype for a Human monk? Would enable a pure Monk build - would get any exotic weapon - including a firearm - for free. Could then use feats to pickup Amateur Gunslinger for Grit and Gunsmithing at first opportunity.
Definitely go with the high Wisdom, high AC, high Grit route. Build for this kind of character favors Wisdom and Dexterity with other stats back-burnered.
As posted already, flurry doesn't synergize well with a non-Zen Archer shooter so stick with one of the non- flurrying archetypes. Flowing Monk and Master of Many Styles both work well. Maybe Snake Style for additional Wisdom synergy on Sense Motive. You'll eventually have a Wisdom bonus on CMB with same for CMD early on. All of this makes a maneuver specialist viable.
You end up with a Caine style figure. Well, Caine with a gun. Sense Motive and Survival would be in play with the Wanderer archetype and high Wisdom. Combat maneuvers, even without a great Strength, are viable with a Hugh Wisdom and Dexterity. Could be interesting!
'Cept ... the Monkey Domain. Provides a monky familiar, bonuses to Acrobatics, Climb, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand, and Ranged Legerdemain at 6th. The Ranged Legerdemain ability in particular seems to scream urban.
Noticed this thread as I also like mounted munchkins whether they be gnomes, halflings, or goblins; mounted Fighters, quadraped Summoners, or what have you. Was really impressed with the pointers above for a Small Summoner.
Just one question. Why no love for the Cavalier as a multi-class option? I can understand not wanting to multi-class. But if you do take that option, take a looksey at my case below for the ultimate mounted combatant ... the mighty (mini) Cavalier using the Emissary archetype.
Spoiler:
The Case for the Cavalier
The Cavalier (Emissary) at level 1 trades Heavy Armor and Tactician for In or Out of Saddle (Ex) which equates to Mounted Combat and the ability to move at normal speed in Medium armor. Compared to the Fighter (Dragoon) option above - which would seem the best multi-class dip other than this one - all you're losing is SF(Ride) feat. And Heavy Armor which you don't need.
In exchange for SF(Ride) you get 2 extra skill points (and a bevy of extra class skills to spend those points on), Challenge, Order abilities (minor for a 1-level dip, but bennies nonethless), and a Mount. With the Mount being the premo reason to take this dip. I'll tackle these in order of importance.
Mount
1) Back-up Eidolon. The biggest survival issue for Summoners tends to be "What happens when the Eidolon goes down?" Or is simply not available because you get attacked in camp without the mighty beast already summoned. For the Cavalier what happens is his/her enemies still have to deal with her tricked out raging Badger with Light Armor proficiency. Or carniverous guard Puppy. Etc.
2) Drawing Fire. The key here is Mounted Combat + Light Armor + Toughness + Boon Companion. A second survival issue for the Summoner is that he/she tends to draw more fire than the actual Eidolon over time. On a Mount you're a little more survivable. Not to mention mobile. Remember the Mount's Light Armor proficiency? Or the ability to take Toughness?? So is the Mount. Especially since you can use Mounted Combat to negate some of the incoming damage that otherwise crinkle your 1st level Mount. MC+LA+Toughness all make the Mount worthy meat shield until 5th level when you can take Boon Companion. At which point its survivability instantly "catches up."
Survivability then starts to dissipate again as you level forward, but as most campaigns end at 12th-15th level you have a shot of the Mount being a viable combatant until at least 9th level. After which you retire your loyal companion. Worst case is you have to wait a week to summon a new one. Not a great long term option, but well worth SF (Ride).
3) Flanking. The mounted Summoner can still ride the Eidolon. It would just rely on the Mount as a flanking buddy in combat. Insta-death for a cornerd target. With the Cavalier's Challenge ability adding a little oomph to the ability to effectively tie-up a single foe.
4) Ride Checks. You can suspend armor check penalties on your Mount. Sweet. Mounted Combat just got better.
5) Crafting. Craft Wondrous Item is a great feat for Summoners. You'll likely take it at 7th level with this build as you'll only have 4 caster levels at Level 5. However, while you have to share slots with your Eidolon. You can pimp your mount to make it even more survivable depsite not leveling past level 5 (with Boon Companion).
6) Action Economy. I hit the flip-side of this benefit in my final note. But you're adding a whole separate set of actions - every round - with the Mount in play. This is huge even if all the Mount is doing is flanking or aiding another. Let alone pummeling what's left of the Big Bad after the Summoner charges and the Eidolon full attacks.
Order
1) Role Playing Potential. As a player, the forced mechanics of the Order ability actually help me role play. Pick any Order. And then let the chracter's unique persona flow. Or pick a persona and then an Order. Either way, the Order abilities all nicely flavor any character's motivations and actions.
2) Order abilities. Most of these don't mean a darn until 2nd level. And even then don't scale well. As discussed above, a 2-level dip into any martial class isn't really worth it. That said, something is always better than nothing.
Challenge
It's basically the poor man's Weapon Specialization. Not phenomenal, but nice on a build with mostly 3/4 BAB. And again, you're getting it as a part of the Cavalier (Emmissary)'s larger package all for the price of SF (Ride).
This build isn't for everyone. Only an experienced player, or perhaps a player in a 2-3 person party, should ever consider it. The Player + Mount + Eidolon action cycle can easily clog-up play. That said, an experienced player should be able to make it work without destroying combat flow. And for many groups, the normal 4+ player party is not consistently available so having a Mount add to the party's action economy is actually really nice.
Would like to immediately acknowledge two things. Or really three. The basic one is that John Walker 19 is the same poster as John Walker 31 (me.) Unsure as to what's going on with that.
Two, love Beckett's feat chain. Love it. Seems balanced. And it's a more flexible option than the Dawnflower Dervish in that it's not just about Sarenrae. Makes a "dervish" fighting style available to anyone that wants to invest the feats. Which I like.
Three, I second the facepalming in the presence of the original Dawnflower Dervish herself.
The Separatist option is interesting. Especially for a martially inclined deity like Sarenrae. But don't you lose the deity's favored weapon if you go separatist? Wouldn't Thalin's Glory/Growth build above would have to invest a feat in Martial Weapons to retain scimitar use??
Could still go Separatist and just use a spear. Might be nice for reach if 2nd domain allowed Enlarge spell ...
As former licensees of Dragon and Dungeon magazines we no longer have the legal right to reprint either periodical in this fashion. However, what it sounds like you're looking for does exist, in part. A several CD set compiling hundreds of PDFs of Dragon was released in the late '90s. You can still find copies floating about the interwebs, but they tend to cost a pretty penny.
Why hasn't Paizo released the full run of printed Dragon issues as either a searchable database or a monthly service?
Before I explain further, please note a quick disclaimer. I scanned the other threads in the General Discussion area for Dragon, and didn't see any threads/posts addressing what appears to be a pretty obvious idea. So apologies in advance if this idea has been posted and debated ad nauseum in other threads.
While it was being published, the annals of Dragon magazine largely captured the game's best thinking. And in some cases it's worst. Either way it formed the conversation for the D&D community at large. It's an incredibly rich, incredibly deep repository.
But for some reason, that repository of ideas, art, thinking, tweaking, etc. remains largely unavailable. To my knowledge, which going back to the disclaimer above is admittedly limited, Paizo has yet to "productize" Dragon as an archive. The only comprehensive efforts I'm aware of are the useful, but limited, CD-ROM release of the first 250 issues. Which had a search interface that would look laughable compared to what we're used to with Google. Or even the search functionality available on the Paizo web site. The other effort I'm aware of is the Best of Dragon Compendium Paizo released a few years ago. Which was inherently limited by the amount of material one could economically cram into a salable hard cover as well as what Erik Mona thought to be the "best" ideas, art, thinking, tweaking, etc. available.
I actually like the idea of someone with a polished palette for D&D game design, like Erik or anyone else on Paizo staff, searching the Dragon archive and adding value by extracting the best material available. But it's still an inherently limited view. Even the worst articles in Dragon have value to a GM or player just looking for inspiration. When I'm out culling the web for inspiration for my campaign or for work, I find a lot of crap. However, that crap sometimes has a tiny vein of brilliance that ends up being incredibly useful for other creative endeavors.
Paizo appears to have already invested significant effort in scanning the entire printed run of Dragon into .pdf's. Which they then sell for $5. What I'd propose is a release of a CD-ROM (or whatever distribution method makes sense for what is potentially hundreds of megs of data) of all 359 issues using a more contemporary search capability. Or ... a search service for $10 a month that grants the ability to search and download all the articles you'd want.
This probably implies that Paizo would have to index every article, illustration, and advertisement by keyword. As well as ensure a free text search be available against the entire archive. Which is work. But would seem to be recoverable through a business model of their choosing.
