Maezer wrote:
I've seen those spreadsheets, and I really do not think that the sort of people who make and use those sort of things should be the target audience of a game. People will always exist who try to 'break' or tweak a system. A system will never be perfect, and there will always be exploits like this. Changing the system will just mean new exploits. The percentage of the population who does that sort of thing, I'd like to hope, is relatively low.
Nunchaku, Kama, and Siangham are really not necessary considering they have identical stats to pre-existing simple weapons. Kama is Japanese for Sickle, one of my big beefs with how WOTC handled things, toss it, Monks can use a sickle as a monk weapon anyways. Nunchaku is roughly a light flail only with two handles, same damage, roughly the same weight...Monks can use a Light Flail as a simple weapon and a monk weapon now...no need for this. Nunchaku would just be a stylistically built light flail. Siangham is basically a dagger, monks can use daggers as a monk weapon...why do we have a Siangham? (What /is/ a Siangham?) I purposefully like the idea of Shuriken either being available to all classes, or eliminated in favor for throwing daggers and darts. Shuriken are really just differently made short range throwing knives.
Skjaldbakka wrote: This doesn't strike me as a big deal. Evasion is generally considered to be superior to Mettle, however. The more options, the better, I always say. Honestly, Rangers could use a lot more love. How about more figthing styles other than Two-Weapon or Archery? Two-Handed? Maybe Mounted? Either way, the more powers that have either/or attached to them the better.
Also, one could always add a new 'weapon' or two that is basically just an enhancement to a monk's unarmed attacks. Iron Rings about the wrists, a-la Wuxia? Gauntlets? Punching Daggers? (Actually make them useful...) Or introduce some feats that represent a Monk's body hardening, DR before 20th level, adamantine hands, etc? These are just random ideas, not nearly as focused as the weapon idea.
I started This Thread here, separately from the main thread because it was branching off a bit, but because the discussion went back to weapons... Maybe the key to making the Monk feel /right/ and work better with other classes, have more 'oomph' is to focus on his/her weapons.
This is a copy-paste of an article I found on Shaolin Monks and weapons: Shaolin monks train in martial arts for several hours every day, perfecting the art of hand-to-hand and weapons combat. Each monk is required to achieve an extraordinarily high level of proficiency in each of the temple's 18 traditional weapons and become a master of one. However, it is the daily practice of seated meditation, which enables each monk to sustain a demanding physical regimen. There are more than 20 weapons used by the Shaolin monks today, including the common axe, cudgel, spear, halberd, sword and broadsword, 3-section staff, dart, dagger, black tiger hammer, plumblossom broadsword, Bodhidharma staff and tiger hooks. These weapons are equally divided between short and long. The cudgel, spear, sword and broadsword, are known as the four major weapons of Shaolin. Traditionally, Shaolin monks were not just armed with the major four. They had many short weapons hidden on the body such as the dart, iron fan and flute. The Bhodhidharma staff and many others are unique to Shaolin practices. The use of these hidden weapons gave the Shaolin monks additional power over their enemies. In addition to the use of these weapons virtually any common, everyday object can be used by a Shaolin monk. Most of the weapons that they use are off of the simple weapons list. Shortsword can easily be used to represent the Jian in a pinch, or or the Dao, one is light and long, and one is broad and short. War Fan would be nice, as would taking the spiked chain, reducing it's damage, and making it a lighter weapon. That's definately a monk weapon. I think the Iconics that you'd usually see this sort of character using in a Wuxia film, though, are: Jian (Rapier-like, Light Sword)
Maybe the path to making the monk feel right lies in focusing more on his/her weapons.
Personally...I'd be happy if Pathfinder was like 3.75 D&D rather than 4E. I just do not like what I see about 4E so-far, and while I like SOME of the ideas they have, like consolidated skill lists, and always on attack powers, no spell failure, and all the race write-ups, there's enough other stuff I hate that I'd want to keep playing a game like 3.5 where I can Dual Wield and Trip people no matter what my class is.
quest-master wrote:
Personally I'd probably make this so that if an enemy charges you and misses their attack you get an immediate attack of opportunity against them and they lose their Dex mod to AC. Allow it to work on Bull Rushes too...it's a feat that will only work in very narrow situations, but is fairly good.
WarDragon wrote:
Totally agree, it seems like a bad solution to just spread your Skill Points thin then spend Feats for Skill Focus in order to give them all a +2. It doesn't add up right, and it requires extra effort...while 2 extra skill points is built into the classes, and seems to make most people happy about class balance and capabilities.
I always felt the list of 'Monk Weapons' was somewhat silly and redundant. It may be done for game balance but the way I see it the game balance achieved is minimal at best. The thing is, most 'Monk Weapons' are just Asian versions of pre-existing simple weapons. Kama=Sickle
How about instead of going through this extra redundancy, just let the Monk use Simple weapons, then they'd actually be able to use Spears, weapons that actual Shaolin and Wudan Monks (The main inspiration for this class) train with. It may seem imbalanced but I've seen a Shaolin Monk 'Flurry Of Blows' with a spear in a demonstration before, and it'd get rid of the necessity to have a bunch of extra exotic weapons that are nearly identical to previously existing weapons. If letting Monks use all Simple Weapons is too unbalancing to game mechanics, then perhaps a more moderate proposal is to list Sickle, Light Flail, Dagger, and the Spears as Monk weapons which can be used to perform Special Monk Attacks and Flurry Of Blows.
I always felt the list of 'Monk Weapons' was somewhat silly and redundant. It may be done for game balance but the way I see it the game balance achieved is minimal at best. The thing is, most 'Monk Weapons' are just Asian versions of pre-existing simple weapons. Kama=Sickle
How about instead of going through this extra redundancy, just let the Monk use Simple weapons, then they'd actually be able to use Spears, weapons that actual Shaolin and Wudan Monks (The main inspiration for this class) train with. It may seem imbalanced but I've seen a Shaolin Monk 'Flurry Of Blows' with a spear in a demonstration before, and it'd get rid of the necessity to have a bunch of extra exotic weapons that are nearly identical to previously existing weapons.
Personally I feel that 2 extra skill points per class would make me feel...satisfied with just about every class having enough skills to be useful in multiple enough situations and fulfill my idea for a character. A Fighter with 4 Skills can be adequately Athletic, Ride a Horse, and know something about Heraldry. As a Human, they can perhaps also be Intimidating, and with an Int Bonus, pick up a trade or craft. That's not really an unreasonable expectation for a Man-At-Arms to have. Same with Wizards, I'd no longer feel crippled, and I'm sure that considering the tweaking already needed to adapt adventures to Pathfinder adding an extra check for the party here or there wouldn't be that crazy.
Deadly Aim
This feat seems to be intended to be similar to Power Attack but apply ranged attacks. However, the name seems like a misnomer as 'Deadly Aim' would theoretically be an attack that's so accurate it's deadly, this is an attack that's less accurate but does more damage. It's probably too late in development, but wouldn't it be a more reasonable idea to call it 'Power Draw'? Considering it does damage at the expense of accuracy? You could say you draw the string on your bow so taut that it becomes shaky and hard to aim, but does much more damage. It could also be Str OR Dex OR Base Attack Bonus... Ideas? |