| J Spence |
Hello. I know this is thread rez, and I don't ususally do this, but trying to find out what exactly the Celestial Quality is was really bugging me, so I kinda went crazy and tried to figure it out. I've read this forum and kinda got lost in the minutae, but haven't really found a convincing breakdown.
So I started mathing. This is what I came up with.
This is not me proclaiming I know the truth (quite the contrary). This is just me giving people the tools they need to play the game they want to play.
Namaste, All.
BREAKING DOWN THE COST OF CELESTIAL ARMORS INTO PRIME COMPONENTS
The Facts: (Quote from the Developer, JJ)
Celestial armor is not mithral—it's actually made of silver or gold (as mentioned in its description), and thus
doesn't gain any of the standard modifiers for being mithral at all. It's its own thing. Its lower arcane spell
failure and higher max Dex bonus are a result of its magical qualities, not what it's made out of. In addition,
this magic allows folks to wear it as if it were light armor—the mithral versions don't do this because mithral
isn't fundamentally magical like the enhancements on celestial armor.
Based on this:
1)It's not material based. Gold/Silver is just the base metal used, like steel with flavor text according to cost.
2)It's solely a magical enhancement. Can it be cheesed by mithral? Probably.
3)Armor Base is variable, as demonstrated by Celestial Armor and Celestial Full Plate
4)Has magical mithral-like qualities combined with a +3 Enchant and an SLA
The question is, can these be seperated price-wise?
The Quick Answer: (Quote from same deveolper, JJ)
In any event, celestial armor isn't an armor quality. It's a unique kind of armor, and thus has a unique pricing.
It does weird stuff; it's really light, it's made of gold, it's REALLY nice looking, it lets you fly, and so on.
Its pricing is a result of ALL of these elements, and that's pretty much that.
The factors in play:
1)This is not a magic item that is recognized by PFS, so it falls completely into houserule territory; this means
the statement is invalid to the enterprising gamer. GM's call. Bring lots of cookies.
2)There is a precedent for upgrading named items in Ultimate Campaign, pg 170, under "Pricing New Items":
"Some new items are really existing magic items with a different weapon or armor type, such as a dagger of venom that is
a rapier instead of a dagger or a lion’s shield that’s a wooden shield instead of a metal shield. For these items,
just replace the price of the nonmagical masterwork item with the cost of the new type of item."
3)Upon breaking down costs, there is no difference between Celestial Armor and Celestial Plate, meaning it's
replicable and can easily be applied to other armors.
SIDE NOTE: There is a discrepancy with MaxDex. This however, corresponds well with scaling pricing.
Given how he replied, I feel like JJ was at the end of his rope and didn't want to dwell too much on an item that
was quickly written up and priced according to where the dart landed. It's a headache to keep track of, and let's
admit it, we geeks can be obsessed with the most trifling details. Besides, it's asking a lot of work to go back and
back track through the numbers and to figure out what (or if) there are baseline numbers that can be salvaged in all
this madness. I mean, who'd want to waste their time on something so meaningless?
*raises hand*
SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO:
MW Plate Armor Costs 1800. Do the numbers check out? Retail(25,000) vs. Crafted(12,500)
25,000 - 2(12,500)= 0
ANSWER: Nope. Lazy numbers, but still will project numbers based on 2pts of info,
Full Enchant worth 22,100
(Full)22,100 - (+3 Enchant)9,000 = 13,100
Stripping down Celestial Armor
MW Chainmail Costs 300. Do the numbers check out? Retail(22,400) vs. Crafted(11,350)
22,400 - 2(11,350)= 300
ANSWER: Yup, Full Enchant worth 22,100
(Full)22,100 - (+3 Enchant)9,000 = 13,100
Possible Celestial Light Armor Projection:
Enchant Cost: 13,100
Base Item Cost:If Heavy cost is 0/1 and Med is 1/1, than Light is 2/1 (double $).
Justification: More value is added for increasing MAX DEX
(Celestial Plate) - (the +3 and Flying ability) = (+5 MAX DEX, -3 ACP reduction, -15%ASF)
(Celestial Armor) - (the +3 and Flying ability) = (+6 MAX DEX, -3 ACP reduction, -15%ASF)
(Possible Light Armor?) - (the +3 and Flying ability) = (+7 MAX DEX, -3 ACP reduction, -15%ASF)
Reducing Enchanments to core basics:
Luckily, we have the Winged Shield!
(it has the same +3 and 1/day fly SLA)
Stripping down the Winged Shield
MW Heavy Wooden Shield Costs 157.
17,257 - 2(8707)= 157
Full Enchant worth 17,100
(Full)17,100 - (+3 Enchant)9,000 = 8,100 (SLA: Fly)
CONCLUSION
22,400 Celestial Armor Cost
-9000 +3 Enchant (Base Enchant)
-8,100 Winged Enchant Cost (SLA: Fly 1/day)
-300 MW Chainmail (Base Item Can Vary)
=5000 Celestial Mobility Enchantment? (MaxDex/ACP/ASF/Weight Bonus improved)
So what does this all mean?
More munchkin stuff really. If this breakdown were ever to hit the mainstream you can say goodbye to plain old mithril and
hello to +5 Celestial Mithral Full Plate, or (heaven forbid) Feycrafted Celestial Mithral Agile Breastplates for Casters.
But hey. Maybe someone may actually want to use those damn towershields now.