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Oneris wrote:
What about Carrion Compass? It only requires an undead creature by RAW, not necessarily a corporeal undead.

carrion compass leads you to the creator, sadly not the body.

The party has lvl 14 debine and arcane casters.
The reason to find the body, is that they need to return an item to the body.

It just seems odd that you can track a living creature all the way across the world, but as far as I know, you can track down an item (or body) without being within a few hundred feet of it


The ghost does not know where the body is, it is pretty much lost at sea

edit. also the ghost is quite friendly and helpful


The party needs to find a ghosts dead body. I dont think that scrying would work, if anything you would see the ghost. Locate object only effects a 400+40 per lvl area, and who knows how many miles away the body is.

So, what is the best way to do this?


Rynjin wrote:

If the only reason you're taking 4 levels of Ninja is to get Uncanny Dodge you may as well just go Barbarian (Urban Barbarians keep Uncanny Dodge so you can Dex Rage) 1/Vivisectionist X (however long to get what you want from it)/Red Mantis Assassin X.

Less convoluted, less multiclassing involved, sorta.

Of course if you're in it for the sweet sweet Vanish, that's good too.

I meant that it seems better to take 4 lvls ninja rather then 3, but only for uncanny dodge earlier, rather then getting it at lvl 16.

Yeah, the reason for ninja was pretty much all about the vanish


I understand how a ranger is a good idea, but I dont see anything specific about inquisitor that points me towards two weapon fighting any more then a fighter, or cavalier. with that said, Inquisitor is probably the class that I understand the least.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
J3Carlisle wrote:

Couldn't a magus enhance a stein?

No.

okay cool


Couldn't a magus enhance a stein?


originally that was something I cared about, now I mostly just like the idea of duel wielding the sabre swords in two hands.


Or race as well I guess, but I dont know how often I will get to use this race


for those that dont know, Kasatha is a race with 4 arms. Yes my GM said I can use the race.
I want to duel wield Sawtooth Sabres , because with prof, you can use them offhand as a light weapon, and as they are treated as long swords in all other respects(as far as I can tell)

For classes, I was thinking this

1: Ninja
2: Ninja
3: Ninja
4: Ninja (I waited this long for uncany dodge)
5: Alchemist (vivisectionst /chirurgeon )
6: Alchemist
7: Crimson Assassin
8: Crimson Assassin
9: Crimson Assassin
10: Crimson Assassin
11: Crimson Assassin
12: Crimson Assassin
13: Crimson Assassin
14: Crimson Assassin
15: Crimson Assassin
16: Crimson Assassin
17: Ninja
18: Ninja
19: Ninja
20: Ninja

My stats were rolled, and I applied them like so

STR 14
DEX 18 (16+2 racial)
CON 15
INT 13
WIS 11 (9+2 racial)
CHA 16

I decided Ninja for the Ki pool and the nice ninja tricks, (and rogue tricks) and the dip into Alch gives 3 elixirs and 1 mutagen a day, and the 2nd lvl for discoveries. Vivisectionist to keep the sneak strong, and Chirurgeon because no need to double up on poison use.Crimson Assassin gives extra to my chosen weapon, and some neat side effects like arcane spells, changing form into deadly manti, and some sneak opportunities.

I am working on the feats to use with this character, but they are pretty much just standard crit rogue/ninja.

I have spent too much time looking at this, and have grown tired. Help a fellow adventurer decide if this convoluted build idea is better at dual wielding 2 sawtooth sabres in 4 hands then strait ninja, ranger, or some other class.


small sized cavalier


Elves taking forever, I understand, they are not humans, and are not related to humans. They are and always have been fey, or closely related to the fey world, one that is older, and totally alien to us.

I do kind of like some of the roleplaying that could come from being so much older, and likely would be some form of pariah until they prove otherwise.

Basically, I dont think the flavor of the race matches with age guideline given, and I would like to know if anyone knows were the idea of them taking so long to mature came from.


So that means an Aasmir raised in a human community would not mature as quickly as those around him/her. To me that would make an aasmir far more of a social outcast, at least by their peers, because of they act like children longer.

This is how I am seeing it right now. Aasmir tend to not look that much differently then their parent race, so that would mean for the first 20 to 40 years of their life, they would be treated like they were mentally handicapped.

I just cant get behind this age thing. If you look at the part human children of gods from past mythologies, they often had more wisdom then the human elders, and were usually stronger then multiple grown men.

Sorry I didnt post this in the first post, I just handn't thought about this as much as I could have.


I honestly do not understand why an aasmir requires 40 years to become an adult. If an aasmir is normally sired by humans, and assuming that the parents are 20 when they have their aasmir child, then they will 60, that means the "average" human would only have 4 years left in their life... this just doesnt make sense to me.


I can agree with this, I just dont tend to care all that much about optimization. I was just thinking about a man from the wild, joins a religion, and starts realizing that he might be able to serve better if he changes some parts of his life. those changes are mechanically shown through a new class.


I can tell you from the Kingmaker game that I DM, melee is good for at least the first two books, there has only been one fight that the melee strong party has even had to blink at due to casting.


If your PCs need a little extra help, let them hire a a mercenary, or a holy man, or maybe even a cut-purse, but I would suggest against any DM run party memebers, players dont usually like them


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the best reason for a character to take a second class, is because it fits what is going on in "thier" life, so if you feel like your barbarian has some religious zeal, then hell yeah you should take a level or two.


might be good to know stats, and how in the world you got a 4 armed race.


It wouldnt make sense for them to be given levels in any other class, just like paladin, it takes just as much commitment to be perfect oneself to being the fighting machine that is a fighter, and that is really the same with any class. If an Antipaladin is unable to become a paladin, than he would simply become an ex-antipaladin, with the rules stated in the book

and as for vader? I dont know that he was ever really a paladin in the begining. his pre vader days, he didnt ever seem to have the commitment needed to fallow a paladins code, I would say that he was for sure a 3.5 antipaladin, but for whatever reason, paizo made them chaotic (doesnt make sense to me) Regardless of any semantics, at the time of his returning to the light, he didnt show any signs of being a paladin again, just that he wanted to save his son.


As a pyromancer, I would probably play him as a pretty typical boyscout (not wht you think of one, but the average) have him have a desire to go out and help the old lady cross the street, but at the same time, he enjoys having some good old fashioned fun at the swimming hole. Give him a craft skill, that way he can destroy with fire, but help fix a house for the peasant that was attacked by the kobolds.

I would also probably as him being friendly to everyone he meets, however, when someone slights him, your Pyromancer avoids interactions with the offender. The High CHA makes me think he can get what he wants, and the int and wisdom means he doesnt always know the best way to use what he gets, but he doesnt squander it by any

EDIT: I agree BBT, no reason to argue over it, ideas are the goal here.


Darkflame wrote:
robin hood is Chaotic good he has no regard of the law but is good hearted hi fights for anarchy against evil and law!

Except, you know, the king, who he fights in the name of, both in sherwood, and in the holy wars.


Now that is what I am talking about!


Let me just say that normally I find your posts beneficial, but I must also say that you seem very willing to belittle my thoughts this evening.

I must say that as written, it is hard to back up any alignment interpretation, and yes, I have not made a good case against CG, but also dont feel strongly in this argument because I find it silly, but here is a little "proof"

For those who dont care to read it all, I will quote a few parts that back up my reasoning as to why a fictitious character fits into a how I interpenetrate rules that hardly cover the complexities of someones personality.

Neutral Good wrote:

A neutral good character does the best that a good person can do. He is devoted to helping others. He works with kings and magistrates but does not feel beholden to them.

Creatures of neutral good alignment believe that there must be some regulation in combination with freedoms if the best is to be brought to the world--the most beneficial conditions for living things in general
Order is not good unless it brings this to all; neither is randomness and total freedom desirable if it does not bring such good.
Neutral goods value both personal freedom and adherence to laws. They feel that too many laws may unnecessarily restrict the freedom of good beings. They also believe that too much freedom may not protect society as a whole and encourage counterproductive divisions and in-fighting. They promote governments which hold broad powers, but do not interfere in the day-to-day lives of their citizens.

So, you know, whenever Robin Hood fights against the system, it is because they are breaking the system, and actively seeks to put the rightful king back on the throne.

In closing, Robin Hood does fit into the NG alignment, but you know what, just like batman, I bet he fits many alignments, because you know, you cant break a person down to two parts.


I understand that you can care for others, but those that are chaotic tend to do what is beneficial in the moment, which in often means what helps them.

I really just think of Robin Hood as being neutral good, and is good with people, so I suggested him as a foundation to build from, no reason to argue over it.


I didnt realize it wasnt legal, I just mentioned it because it also uses charisma instead of wisdom.


Cavalier, barbarian, or paladin or some other mounted combat centered class. Kingmaker is all about exploring, which means you get to use your mount, and mounted combat, consistently throughout the adventure


The story goes that Mysterious Stranger is less then awesome. Now that doesnt mean you cant still do it and have loads of fun, but if it matters, the Buccaneer also uses cha, but you would have to be human, so it would mean changing some of your concept


I did see that the paladin didnt have the option writtten in, but for whatever reason I just thought it worked both ways. I do agree that it should be few and far between to go back and forth, but I really would like to see this in action in a game some time


Rylar wrote:
J3Carlisle wrote:
Plus, Hood is for sure Neutral Good,
No, he is Chaotic Good. He is the prime example of Chaotic Good.

I disagree, He doesnt only look out for himself, which is a classic CG, NG is good for Hood because he helps others because that is what is good, not because it benefits him

EDIT: When the people are being treated well Robin Hood is far more likely to follow the law then to break it, so chaotic doesnt make any sense at all


Personally I keep on thinking of Robin Hood. No brilliant strategist, but he knows how to lead his crew, and can get the people to like him. Plus, Hood is for sure Neutral Good, He wants the best for everyone, and willing to break the law to do so, but at the same time, respects the law when it helps the people around him.


Ecaterina Ducaird wrote:


Ummm..... yes? They do have to be that evil? Go look up the SRD on it. Note the bit about Champions of evil.

This isn't a simple fall your talking about to become an Anti... a fallen Pally has some extra options if they want to become an anti-paladin, but ultimately.... It's still an Anti-paladin. It's still a chaotic evil (mandatory) class that a single good act can cause you to 'fall'.

For me at least, I THINK that the scenario your looking at there is that cusp period AFTER a pally has fallen, but BEFORE he's started trading out his levels into Anti-Paladin. During the period between the two when his alignment is most likely in a little bit of flux and is more susceptible to the influence of fiends (can't use his flashlight of detection). For me though, once you have started taking levels in Anti-paladin, your alignment is already Chaotic Evil, and your subject to the morality code of them (one good act).

RAW, I don't see a way that you could have become an Anti and 'Not...

Here is the antipaladin's

Code of Conduct:
An antipaladin must be of chaotic evil alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if he willingly and altruistically commits good acts. This does not mean that an antipaladin cannot take actions someone else might qualify as good, only that such actions must always be in service of his own dark ends. An antipaladin’s code requires that he place his own interests and desires above all else, as well as impose tyranny, take advantage whenever possible, and punish the good and just, provided such actions don’t interfere with his goals.

Their code is for sure much looser then that of a paladin.


I have no plans of ever doing this, however, I was researching paladins which lead to antipaladins, and that is when I saw what I thought might be some kind of crazy stupid way to change archetypes... god I need to find better things to do at work


So lets say you are a Divine Defender Paladin, you fell from grace and become an anti paladin, could you technically obtain atonement, and choose a different archetype when you swap back to Paladin?

Fall From Grace:
Not all paladins that fall become antipaladins. In fact, the transformation is quite rare. Most paladins spend months or even years regaining their paladinhood, but they never stray so far from the path as to become irredeemable. Rarely, a paladin turns from the light and seeks instead to make a pact with the dark powers. Often this is through temptation or some sort of ruse, but once the deal is struck, the paladin finds himself on the path to damnation.

When such a fall occurs, the transformation can be swift. The paladin trades in all of his paladin levels for antipaladin levels on a 1-for-1 basis. This is usually a traumatic experience, involving a complex ritual that involves a living sacrifice and dark oaths made to foul powers (who sometimes send minions to bear witness). Once complete, the antipaladin emerges, ready to bring ruin to the world.

It should be noted that not all antipaladins are fallen heroes. Some warriors are trained from a young age to assume the mantle of antipaladin, forged through pain and trauma into exemplars of evil. These cruel warriors know nothing of compassion or loyalty, but they can teach a great deal about pain and suffering.


personally, I have wanted to make a magus/barbarian. would it be the bestt thing ever? Na, but you could smash hard, take a beating, and enhance with some good buffs or damage spells.


you get one feat every level, so at 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17,19, and fighter gain an extra feat at 1,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,20.
What this means for you is that after 5 levels of wizard, and 5 levels of fighter, you will look like this

1. feat
2. nada
3. feat
4. nada
5. feat + wizard bonus feat
6. nada + fighter bonus feat
7. feat + fighter bonus feat
8. nada
9. feat + fighter bonus feat
10. nada


let me just say, awesome. the one thing that I think it is missing,is background images. If there was a way to build a dungeon, and then draw on it as well... nerdgasm


If your GM lets you, play the spellslinger wizard. I know you didnt want to play a wizard, but I figured it was differnt enough, that it could still be fun.


Guide to the Class Guides is a great place to look for great ideas


Gauss wrote:

Phantom1592, I didnt state I liked what death became in PF. I just stated what it is. :)

But, people can houserule it back into the earlier methods of death if they wish. I would suggest such people agree as a group though. Might have unhappy players.

Personally, I am looking forward to GMing a death campaign again. I got Rappan Athuk for Xmas and I hope it lives up to the hype. :)

- Gauss

Perma death death? cause that is the only way to play the game


Lurk3r wrote:
Mystically Inclined wrote:
...And in the end, the player chooses this death. They could have overridden their character's personality long enough to save the character's hide if the player had really wanted to...
A player chooses, a slave obeys?

Yeah, that line bugged me as well


Do the PCs get the benefit of nat 1s and 20s? well, then I will give them the negatives as well. My suggestion, is that if someone wants to play on easy mode, then they can have easy mode.

In easy mode, nat 1, doesn't mean anything. Nat 20? that would be a crit for sure, but not some kind of super special attack that or super awesome skill use.

Other then that, fudging dice just sucks. I mean really, how terrible is it when you find out that you worked hard on a test, and the teacher just says, meh, whatever, everyone passes. you would be pissed at the teacher. Or think of the spoiled child that cries every time they don't get their way, do you think it better to simply give into the child's wants? No, that only leads to the spoiled child being spoiled all their life.

I understand having fun with role playing the same character for long periods of time, but honestly their are great things about losing a character, like building a new one! What better way for a new player then to spend time looking in the books!

You become a stronger player with every character you make. I was terrible at making characters at first. Not only did I make bad "roll" mistakes, I made worse "role" mistakes. Without the death that my characters, I would not have been able to make the totally fun characters since.

Through the failures I have become stronger. The Failures have also made my victories that much sweeter, oh so much sweeter. Any time that I have recognized a DM cheat (fudge) the rolls, I have felt cheated out of the could have beens. It could have been that I would have survived. It could have been that it compelled my fellows in a new direction. It could have been... ANYTHING other then cheated.


Alchemist(vivisectionist) with this feat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/deadly-dealer


Makarion wrote:
Have one of them steal a cursed item! The owner WON'T want it back, much as the PCs will want to get rid of it :).

I need to work in more cursed items


two dips into ninja tricks, the first for a ki pool, and the second for the invisibility trick. It is a swift action, and means that you will get to sneak up as long as you have ki. (another way to get that ki pool is a dip into monk)


Magus plus barbarian. Alchemist plus Rogue/ninja/gunslinger. Really Alchemist and Magus are the best classes to use. Otherwise having one class a fighter for the feats is one of the better option

Magus Barbarian is awesome because you get to use your rage powers in tandum with spell casting, with the rage power moment of clarity, you can do some extra smashing with spells while raging.

Rogue plus alchemist or gunslinger is awesome, because all three classes do very well inside of 30 feet, the rogue and the alchemist love int, they all need dex, and if you are human, there is a decent alt of gunslinger archetype called buccaneer, that lets you use charisma, which is always good for the ninja/rogue


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oh, and even though will muck with your plans (duh, that is part of being a dm) I really like being the DM for the game so far


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Exactly what the title says. It was brought up in the "bloat" thread how common a pc death was and I wondered what a gm should generally aim for? I've got very little experience of my own to add despite 3 years playing because of unusual campaigns. So tell me what are you guy's experience with this?

In my game, my players got to level 5 before they decided to die, and now I have had a player die in the last 4 sessions (They made it to level 6 two sessions ago) Now I hope that there are not any others for the next little bit


If you missfire on a critical success, all of your bullets automattically fire at your taget, dealing damage based on your gun, which means that you will likely kill something, but then you will be out of ammo


I am the DM of this game, and my number one point is this.

Your players will make a totals mess of your plans!

that beeing said, I suggest that you look into picking up a copy of Book of the River Nations. This book has all of the new rules, and then some, that you need for kingdom building all in one place

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