I'm looking at converting my podcast to 2E. It's called World Walkers and it's been run using D&D 5E this whole time, but I'm excited to get back to Pathfinder again, which is where I spent a lot of time back in the day.
I'm heading to GenCon to buy the books and once we get acquainted with the rules we'll be able to start playing in the system. We'll keep playing in our current story and worlds though, so we won't be exploring APs.
If anyone's interested, you can find links to the podcast here: https://worldwalkerspodcast.com/about/
I'm glad this thread's around so I can peak in on other podcasts too :O
Just to be clear, we are all over the boards reading and talking about threads (even if we are allowing some of them to brew without our direct input), this is one that I felt was important to talk about.
Of course it is important for us to know that you don't find our game exciting enough to play.
There just isn't a lot of direction we can take from that other than "make it more exciting". Which is, of course, something we are always striving to do anyway. Later on in this process we are going to be releasing a swarm of surveys that are not directly tied to the playtest. While many of those will be about specific game systems and engines, there will be one about our layout and information design. This too is important to us, even though I do not suspect we will get too many answers on it, as survey about user design interface is probably not too interesting to most, but that wont stop us from trying.
Just thought I would toss that out there. I hate to see enthusiasts so distraught that they cannot even bring themselves to play. Rest assured that we will be looking into that once we have things rolling here.
This is super encouraging to hear!
My group's on the verge of walking away because while they love the ideas of the game, they find deciphering the rules to be tedious. Most of them have asked if we can switch back to our other game, but we're still going to give it a try tonight. Most of us were worried that the book's layout and wording are fairly finalized. The group went over to the surveys but when they didn't ask about character creation or readability they assumed that that part of the book was fairly complete and got discouraged.
I don't get the problem people are having. I read the book cover to cover. Character creation takes maybe 30 minutes maximum for any class. Where is the confusion? I can understand it if you are coming at it from a min-max munchkin style but if you just want to build a decent character, it's extremely quick.
Its the cross referncing. For ewxample we're doing Session 0.1 now and the wife is looking at bards and druids. She has to go read cantrips and figure out what they do, then she wants to find out what a level 10 spell is, then she is trying to figure out why Bards don;t seem to get a level 10 spell (maybe they do she is still looking).
She has not tread the action economy section yet, she has to go and find out what expert, mater, legendary+ signature stuff is etc.
My printer is also out of ink the 270 odd pages I did print killed it and I am reading the PDF more.
Its also very dry to read (hard, boring etc) its like reading the 3.5 Spell Compendium or 4E PHB again. Sometimes I translate stuff into 5E terms for her like the level 20 stuff is capstone abilities like 5E but you can pick what you want such as level 10 spell or use your wild shape to shapechange (and then she has to go read wild shape and shapechange).
If you are used to it from late Pathfinder books in general or Starfinder it might be easier but we stopped playing Pathfinder in 2012 (as DM) last played 2014 (as player).We also did not go that deep down the warren of splat books mostly just using the core book+ advanced player guide and Ultimate Magic/Combat so maybe missed some evolution there in later PF books IDK.
Ultimate Campaign and Skull and Shackles/Kingmaker was the last time I paid much attention to Pathfinder. And I barely read Ultimate Campaign being honest.
Also complexity look at Calculate the Result pg 291), that is potentially 10 steps to resolve something.
For what it's worth I'm in the same situation. My players and I have been trying to get through the book and it's just so dry. This is the first Rulebook I've come across where I actually dislike pouring through it, and I've been a GM for over 20 years.
Just about all of my players have run out of fuel on this book. Most aren't bothering to read it anymore, hoping the other members in the group figure it out. We're still going to give it a go, hoping the actual game is so fun that it'll inspire us to keep going.
We all love the customization and options, but none of us like the actual book's wording. It reads like it's written by an engineer. And it bothers me that, as best I can tell, there are no Surveys for the book's wording, layout, or character creation. That's fine for people like me who will go to the forums, but there are plenty who will just move on, and it seems like a missed opportunity.
Or maybe they're happy with the way the book is written and laid out, and as some have suggested, the game isn't meant for people like our group. Which I can totally accept; I don't need every game to be changed just for me. But I hope that's not the case, because the underlying game seems to have some really fun material.
Wow. Whether the text says grossly or not I would've stripped the paladin's powers for that. Killing an innocent creature AND lying about it is downright evil, any way you look at it. From that description it sounds like the player's heart isn't really into playing the paladin and might be playing it for the powers more than for the character. I can't imagine the motivations that would make someone who would choose to be a palidin take those kinds of actions, and it's right that he (and the player) should be punished accordingly.
That's a horrible case of not playing your alignment and unfortunately in the case of the paladin happens to have some nasty in-game consequences.
Well, first off, I did strip his powers for the killing. We're in agreement there :) haha.
As for the rest, I do take issue with you coming down on our player like that. It was very much a heat-of-the-moment kinda thing, and it was pretty hilarious. We all laughed, and he wasn't surprised to discover his powers didn't work. He takes his characters, including this paladin, seriously, and he knew what he was getting into. This is the whole reason a spell like Atonement is in the game for, ya know :) So players can make a mistake or make up for something they shouldn't have done.
They're now going off on a quest to restore his paladin-hood, and it's going to be a pretty fun adventure I think. And we have a hilarious story to tell people now. So the idea of "he must be punished" comes off as very harsh. Or maybe I'm just taking you a bit too literal. It just sounds like you believe this is a much bigger issue, when it was really a very spontaneous moment at the table.
That's fairly vague given the language we use here on the boards. Was it an alignment trap by the DM? Did the character have REASON to kill the creature, even if it was just self-defense? What I have from you so far is not enough to comment on.
I was the GM in question, so I can answer your question. I hope this isn't off-topic too much. I think the conversation is about the strictness of the Paladin code and why the wording differs from 3.5 to Pathfinder, and whether Paizo did this consciously.
After leading out a group of monsters from an old lady's basement and then dispatching them, the group's paladin went downstairs to find out if there were any more of these creatures left. There was one left, nestled in a hole, sleeping.
The paladin raised his hammer, screamed the equivalent of "They're coming right for us!" and brought the hammer down, killing the sleeping creature. The creature wasn't evil, and the act wasn't in self defense. The player and the table laughed at the events, even after he was told he lost his powers for that. He had no problem with that.
The problem came when we re-read the rules and realized that the little bit of lying he did in the attack, and before when he and the group lied to an old lady, would have caused him to lose his powers, according to the book.
My friend Kevin, the OP, thought there was more leeway, but discovered that leeway only exists in the text from 3.5 and the cleric, not the paladin.
I have just started playing Pathfinder and picked the fighter as my first class. I wanted to make sure that the game mechanics came easily before I ventured into another class. I have done some research about the "builds" that people have come up with the fighter. I just wanted to know what "builds" you had fun playing and why. I can figure out which builds do damage and defend, but the game is still new to me.
I'm going to take a different approach to this question than some of the other posters. I just got my girlfriend into the game, and I found that some of the questions I'd normally ask a person to help them build a character fell flat, because she didn't know what she'd like. She was completely new to this whole thing.
So, with the emphasis on fun in mind, and assuming you don't necessarily know what you'd enjoy because you haven't played, I would give you these few hints, all with the idea that you are new and don't want the rules to come crashing too hard over you:
One weapon > two weapons. Trying to balance all the numbers flying around when using two weapons gets kinda crazy when you're first starting. Using one weapon keeps the math much simpler. Plus, with two weapons you start missing more, and you need a small army of feats before it starts to come together. So I'd make a fighter that uses one weapon. I'd recommend a two-handed weapon myself, because if you're asking for fun, not much beats bringing a giant sword down on wide-eyed goblins.
As someone mentioned above, Power Attack. Fighters, to me, are at their most fun when they are devastating anything in their path, plowing through monsters like a semi truck.
If you ARE up for some trickier math, make a ranged fighter, going down the feats of Deadly Aim/Point Blank Shot/Rapid Shot. One of the most satisfying things you can do as a player is roll a bunch of dice at once, watching the damage pile up. It doesn't take long before you're doing that with a ranged fighter.
If damage isn't your thing, the next fun thing to do is look at combat maneuver feats like Improved Trip or Improved Sunder. Playing the guy that just wrecks havoc on an opponent's capabilities can be really fun. There's something very enjoyable about watching the enemy's favorite weapon break, or watching the enemy waste all its good turns trying to get off the floor or break out of your grapple.
If you're open to taking a level in other classes, I find taking a level in Barbarian to be awesome, as it gives you the ability to fly into a rage, making all of your attacks hit like Mike Tyson going all out in a room full of babies. Or, if you have someone else in the party that is a close up person, take a level in rogue so you can get sneak attack whenever you and your new best buddy flank someone.
According to the list of possible bonus feats for sorcerers of the draconic and fey blood lines, Quicken Spell is listed as one of the choices. Anyone else think this is kind of strange? It wouldn't even work unless you multiclassed into another casting class, right? Is this a typo, or am I not seeing the bigger picture here?
In PFRPG, Quicken Spell works fine for sorcerers; it allows them to cast spells as free actions. The rule that ALL metamagic applications to spontaneously-cast spells increases the casting time has been removed for Quicken Spell.
I can't believe that I've missed this change for as long as I did O_o Maybe I should re-read the classes, so I don't miss something like this again.
According to the list of possible bonus feats for sorcerers of the draconic and fey blood lines, Quicken Spell is listed as one of the choices. Anyone else think this is kind of strange? It wouldn't even work unless you multiclassed into another casting class, right? Is this a typo, or am I not seeing the bigger picture here?
I've been playing in a pathfinder game for about half a year now, and I played 3.5 for many years before switching. I've only used minis maybe 10 times tops, and it was never really needed. We almost never run into troubles with flanking or any sort of tactical situations. The only time it becomes a problem is when one of the players stops paying attention. A quick sketch of the map solves almost any problem that might come up.
A soul Jar...use it to capture just one of the souls.
I can't find Soul Jar in the SRD. Did you mean Magic Jar? If so, is there a more permanent solution? It looks like it would wear off in less then a day. I'm looking for something more in like like an exorcism or something like that.
Say, for example, that a character has two souls in her body (as part of her back story), is there a spell or something that would expel the tag along soul out of the body? The extra soul is not an extra dimensional spirit, but another human soul.
Double Weapons are unwieldy, and you'd probably hurt yourself with them, unless you were specially trained in these exotic weapons, correct? So...what's the problem with them? Taking the Exotic Weapon Prof. feat means you can use said weapon without killing yourself. Why all this discussion about how realistic it may or may not be?
We're playing a fantasy game where people can warp the fabric of reality, impossible creatures exist, and people can channel the power of their god through themselves. If anything is realistic in the game, it's the double weapons that people have to take special training to use.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Oracles are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields). Some oracle revelations grant additional proficiencies.
Spells: An oracle casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell lists. She can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. To learn or cast a spell, an oracle must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against an oracle's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the oracle's Charisma modifier.
Like other spellcasters, an oracle can cast only a certain number of spells per day of each spell level. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table 2–5. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–3 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook).
Unlike other divine spellcasters, an oracle's selection of spells is extremely limited. An oracle begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of her choice. At each new oracle level, she gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table 2–6. Unlike spells per day, the number of spells an oracle knows is not affected by her Charisma score; the numbers on Table 2–6 are fixed.
In addition to the spells gained by oracles as they gain levels, each oracle also adds all of either the cure spells or the inflict spells to her list of spells known (cure spells include all spells with “cure” in the name, inflict spells include all spells with “inflict” in the name). These spells are added as soon as the oracle is capable of casting them. This choice is made when the oracle gains her first level and cannot be changed.
Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered oracle level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), an oracle can choose to learn a new spell in place of one she already knows. In effect, the oracle loses the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell's level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged. An oracle may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that she gains new spells known for the level. She cannot swap any cure or inflict spells, nor can she swap any spells gained from her mystery.
Unlike a cleric, an oracle need not prepare her spells in advance. She can cast any spell she knows at any time, assuming she has not yet used up her spells per day for that spell level. Oracles do not need to provide a divine focus to cast spells that list divine focus (DF) as part of the components.
Mystery: Each oracle draws upon a divine mystery to grant her spells and powers. This mystery also grants additional class skills and other special abilities. This mystery can represent a devotion to one ideal, prayers to deities that support the concept, or a natural calling to champion a cause. For example, an oracle with the waves mystery might have been born at sea and found a natural calling to worship the gods of the oceans, rivers, and lakes, be they benign or malevolent. Regardless of its source, the mystery manifests in a number of ways as the oracle gains levels. An oracle must pick one mystery upon taking her first level of oracle. Once made, this choice cannot be changed.
At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an oracle learns an additional spell derived from her mystery. These spells are in addition to the number of spells given on Table 2–6. They cannot be exchanged for different spells at higher levels.
Fire
Class Skills: An oracle with the flame mystery adds Acrobatics, Climb, Intimidate, and Perform to her list of class skills.
Bonus Spells: burning hands (2nd), resist energy (4th), fireball (6th), wall of fire (8th), summon monster V (fire elementals only) (10th), fire seeds (12th), fire storm (14th), incendiary cloud (16th), fiery body (18th).
Oracle's Curse (Ex): Each oracle is cursed, but this curse comes with a benefit as well as a hindrance. This choice is made at 1st level, and once made, it cannot be changed. The oracle's curse cannot be removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity. An oracle's curse is based on her oracle level plus one for every two levels or Hit Dice other than oracle. Each oracle must choose a single curse. All curses can be found here.
Tongues: In times of stress or unease, you speak in tongues. Pick one of the following languages: Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Ignan, Infernal, or Terran. Whenever you are in combat, you can only speak and understand the selected language. This does not interfere with spellcasting, but it does apply to spells that are language dependent. You gain the selected language as a bonus language. At 5th level, pick an additional language to speak in combat and add it to your list of known languages. At 10th level, you can understand any spoken language, as if under the effects of tongues, even during combat. At 15th level, you can speak and understand any language, but your speech is still restricted during combat.
Orisons: Oracles learn a number of orisons, or 0-level spells, as noted on Table 2–6 under “Spells Known.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they do not consume any slots and may be used again.
Revelation: At 1st level, 3rd level, and every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and so on), an oracle uncovers a new secret about her mystery that grants her powers and abilities. The oracle must select a revelation from the list of revelations available to her mystery. If a revelation is chosen at a later level, the oracle gains all of the abilities and bonuses granted by that revelation based on her current level. Unless otherwise noted, activating the power of a revelation is a standard action.
Cinder Dance (Ex): Your base speed increases by 10 feet. At 5th level, you receive Nimble Moves as a bonus feat. At 10th level, you receive Acrobatic Steps as a bonus feat. You do not need to meet the prerequisites to receive these feats. Oracles with the lame oracle curse cannot select this revelation.
Molten Skin (Ex): You gain resist fire 5. This resistance increases to 10 at 5th level and 20 at 11th level. At 17th level, you gain immunity to fire.
Wings of Fire (Su): As a swift action, you can manifest a pair of fiery wings that grant you a fly speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability. You can use these wings for 1 minute per day per oracle level. This duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be spent in 1 minute increments. You must be at least 7th level before selecting this revelation.
+2 to One Ability Score: Human characters gain a +2 racial bonus to one ability score of their choice at creation to represent their varied nature.
Medium: Humans are Medium creatures and receive no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Humans have a base speed of 30 feet.
Focused Study: All humans are skillful, but some, rather than being generalists, tend to specialize in a handful of skills. At 1st, 8th, and 16th level, such humans gain Skill Focus in a skill of their choice as a bonus feat. This racial trait replaces the bonus feat trait.
Skilled: Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.
Languages: Humans begin play speaking Common. Humans with high Intelligence scores can choose any languages they want (except secret languages, such as Druidic).
TRAITS
Conspiracy Hunter: You’ve long heard rumors of dark deeds afoot in Westcrown. Shipments of valuable cargo that go missing with nary a trace or question asked. People who disappear as though they never existed. Lords of business and nobles who speak in veiled references and accidental slips of masters even they must obey. What lords rule the Westcrown underworld? Do the tales of far-reaching criminal organizations hold a hint of truth? Could the fabled Council of Thieves, said to have been purged from the city ages ago, have somehow survived or reformed? And what hold do they hold over the city today? You don’t know, but you’re determined to find out! Choose one of the following skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Perception, Sense Motive, or Stealth. You gain a +1 trait bonus on this skill and it is always considered a class skill for you. Perception
Magical Lineage: One of your parents was a gifted spellcaster who not only used metamagic often, but also developed many magical items and perhaps even a new spell or two—and you have inherited a fragment of this greatness. Pick one spell when you choose this trait. When you apply metamagic feats to this spell that add at least 1 level to the spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level. Fireball
Gear:
+1 Mithral Morningstar 4008 gp (3#), Dagger 2 gp (1#), Light Crossbow 35 gp (4#), 20 bolts 2 gp (2#), Mithral Breastplate +1 5,200 gp (15#), Mithral Buckler +1 2505 gp (2.5#), Belt pouch 1gp (0.5#), Bedroll 1sp (5#), Blanket 5sp (3#), Tent 10gp (20#), Waterskin 1gp (4#), 10 days Trail Rations 5gp (10#), Mess Kit 2sp (1#), Journal 10gp (1#), Ink 8 gp, Inkpen 1sp, Hip Flask 1gp (0.5#), Spell Component Pouch 5gp (2#), Explorer's Outfit (8#)
Handy Haversack 2,000 gp (5#)
Cloak of Resistance +2 4,000 gp (1#)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 2,000 gp
Belt of Incredible dexterity +2 4,000 gp (1#)
Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 4,000 gp (1#)
Ring of Protection +1 2000 gp
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (13) 750 gp
Holy Water 25 gp (1#)
Scrolls: 2 Shield of Faith 50 gp
Potion of Cure Light Wounds 50 gp
.
2331 gp, 1 sp
Total: 46# 58/116/175
Backstory:
Noah was born in Westcrown to a pair of conjurers. They were part of the establishment and practiced devil summoning. Noah was constantly around these creatures and grew to loath their slippery tongues and trickery. He saw how they turned an agreement to their advantage on the turn of word and couldn’t stand how they cheated people that way. One night his mother failed to prepare her ceremony correctly and ended up dead on the floor. Noah had enough. He prayed that night for the ability to forgive his parents and for the ability for him to show them the errors of their ways. Sarenrae answered him and gave him divine gifts he uses to protect the weak and innocent and to help others see the errors of their ways.
Spells Known:
Cantrips (8)
Create Water
Detect Magic
Guidance
Light
Mending
Read Magic
Spark
Stabilize
1st Level (5)
Bless
Burning Hands B
Cure Light WoundsB
Divine Favor
Moment of Greatness
Protection From Evil
Shield of Faith
2nd Level (3)
Align Weapon
Cure Moderate WoundsB
Grace
Resist Energy B
Spiritual Weapon
