Izar Talon's page

Because I'm really digging the subtly different look of the Pathfinder logo on the Campaign Setting books recently. The color scheme is more pleasant, the texturing is wonderful, and it just has a nicer feel to it in general.

If this has already been discussed (or this is the wrong forum to discuss it) I apologize. I did a search on the messageboards and didn't see any threads about it, and I thought it was nice enough to be pointed out and applauded. It's a very nice little improvement.

I've been reading about the Ancient Greek Hero Cults, cults dedicated to ancient heroes, based around shrines where offerings were made to the heroes in gratitude or propitiation, recognizing that the hero either achieved something great in life, or died in a spectacular way, and in either case in doing so they achieved a level above that of other men, but less than the gods. (As examples of some of the heroes who had cults built around them, we have both the mythical Achilles, and the historical Alexander the Great.)

Evidence of this kind of cult can be seen in the shrines dedicated to those who attempted yet failed the Test of the Starstone, and the people who leave offerings at these shrines and those who dedicate themslves to maintaining them. These are a wonderful example of hero cults, either written that way intentionally by Paizo or just happily coincidental.

The original ancient Greek idea of the Hero was someone who was more than mortal but less than a god, liminal bengs who existed in a state above the rest of humanity. This is exactly what the Mythic Rules are for, to model these kind of people, and I am very, very happy with the way the rules were handled.

I've been thinking: with the Divine Source poweravailable at 3rd Tier, it is possible to have Hero Cults devoted to still living heroes, rather than being limited to the Ancient Greek model of only dead heroes. Hero Cults could build up around the greatest adventurers of Golarion, (sort of like the Hero Deities of Oerth/Greyhawk, like Kelanen.) And these cults could actually have real Clerics who gained magic fromthe heroes to whom they were dedicated, even though the levels of spells they could cast would be fairly limited until their Hero got to a high Tier. But for Paladins or Rangers dedicated to a Hero rather than a Deity, the lower levels of spell access wouldn't even really be that much of a hinderance.

I just thought it would be very interesting if some of the highest level adventurers on Golarion had dedicated Hero Cults build up around them, as stories of their deeds spread throughout the world, perhaps even by way of Pathfinder Society reports. Some of these Cults could even take the form of adventuring societies dedicated to a famous adventurer, even seeking to recreate his or her exploits. The Pathfinder Society itself could almost even be seen as this type of organization, if only the Decemvirate were of Mythic rank and had the Divine Source power, in which case there could be Society Clerics who gained their power from devotion to the Pathfinder Society itself.

I guess I don'treally know where I'm going with this, except to just throw it out there for discussion. I have been thinking about this ever since I got my copy of Mythic Adventures and digested the rules and realized how well they modeled the Greek Ideal of the Hero, and how well they could be used to model a Living Hero Cult. I think it would be a very interesting idea.

Anyone else agree? Disagree? Or think I'm just babbling? What do you think?

OK, I was just thinking about the Cthulhu, Dagon, Deep One/Skum situation on Golarion.

Point the First: we know that on Golarion, the Skum fill the storytelling niche that the Deep Ones do on Earth, since apparently the Deep Ones are a specfically Terran phenomenon.

Point the Second: we know that in the setting/multiverse of Golarion, Dagon is a Qlippothic Demon Lord rather than an elder Deep One, and is worshiped in the same way that Dagon is worshiped on Earth, often in conjunction with the Great Old One Cthulhu.

Point the Third: On Earth, the Deep Ones worship Dagon as part of a sort of trinity in conjunction with Cthuhu and his consort, Mother Hydra, another elder Deep One grown to enormous size.

I was wondering if there is room for an equivalent of Mother Hydra on Golarion? Perhaps another Qlippothic Demon Lord with close connections to Dagon? Or maybe even better, a Skum High Priestess of both Dagon and Cthulhu, grotesquely swollen with eldritch and unholy energies, grown to gigantic proportions and rendered immortal.

I propose that Golarion's Mother Hydra could be a Skum with the Half-Fiend template, advanced enough hit dice to be Huge (or even Colossal) and with many levels of Oracle with either the Waves or (even better) Dark Tapestry mystery, who recieves her powers from both Dagon and Cthulhu. I only wish that Pathfinder had an equivalent of the Pseudonatural template from 3.5 that could be used instead of Half-Fiend.

I was also thinking that she would be a perfect candidate for for Mythic Ranks, especially enough to make her Immortal, and the Divine Source power so she herself could actually be worshiped as part of the Cthulhu, Father Dagon, Mother Hydra trinity.

Any thoughts?

OK, so the Ectoplasmic Creature undead template is straight Ghostbusters Slimer/Onionhead-style ghosts, and the Immortal Ichor is flat-out exactly the sealed Evil glowing goo in the basement of the old church (guarded by the Order of Sleep) from John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness, both references which are just BEYOND awesome. I don't know the source of the Vouivre, but it seriously reminds me of the Diplocephalus from Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

This Bestiary is easily the coolest monster book for any version of this game I have ever read. With the combination of Ghostbusters, Prince of Darkness, and Lovecraft as sources, this book almost overwhelmed me.

Anyone else identify possibly obscure sources of monsters from B4? (Not that Ghostbusters is obscure, but you know what I mean...)

I hope this is the right subforum to post this, but after searching through them it seemed like the best fit I could find. It's a character concept, but I'm not seeking any kind of rules mechanics advice for building him that would place this in the Advice subforum. I was just interested in people's opinions of this story, and some thoughts I had on the gods and the wider world of Golarion. If this is the wrong forum for this, then I humbly apologize in advance and request that this be removed to the appropriate subforum.

I have a character I'm building, and I was wondering about what people might think of this concept.

The character is a Magus, and his overarching goal in life is to thwart the plans of the Old Cults, disrupt the influences of the Great Old Ones and Outer Gods on Golarion, and eliminate any pockets or cells of Old Cultists he can find.

Now, in his back story, he had been abducted multiple times over the course of his childhood by Mi-Go, who performed multiple experimental surgeries on him, implanting various artificial organs of Mi-Go magical biotechnology and other similar things. (If anyone is familiar with Delta Green, and has read those books, I subscribe to the Delta Green treatment and view of the Mi-Go, and their surgical experiments on humans, which would therefore also carry over to the other humanoids in the setting of Golarion.)

Now, these surgical procedures added things to his physiology, but unlike previous experiments (see the Delta Green books and Mi-Go experiments with protomatter for possible examples.) These experiments, instead of resulting in a horrible, grotesque monstrosity, actually resulted in something beneficial for the subject. The experiments were the cause of this character's Ascension and becoming a Mythic character.

So long as he eats mushrooms everyday (or really any kind of fungus) he has amazing powers (Mythic Flaw: Dependency, in this case eating mushrooms.) The fungus fuels the Mi-Go bio-magico-technological implants within him. I imagined they absorb and process whatever magical energies that empower any other Mythic character.

So, instead of being granted his Mythic stature by a god, or an artifact, or being dipped in a magic river, or the like, his Mythic status is derived from Mi-Go magical biotechnology (as referred to in the Mi-Go monster entry in Wake of the Watcher, as well as using ideas taken from Call of Cthulhu and Delta Green), in keeping with Golarion's WONDERFUL pulp tradition of mixing fantasy, science-fiction, and horror, in true Weird Fiction fashion, as well as continuing Golarion's direct links to Lovecraft's work. (I REVERE Lovecraft's stories.)

What do you think of that use and interpretation of the Mythic rules? I really like what I did with it, but I was wondering what other's might think.

As for the second part of my post, it stems from my decision to make my character a worshiper of Desna, as I have relied that Desna ties heavily into his quest against the Old Cults. I've always liked Desna, but initially she seemed to be just a very interesting god of exploration and stars and dreams. However, as I read deeper into the beliefs and practices of her religion, I discovered some very, very interesting things.

Worshipers of Desna love to watch the stars and the night sky, watching the Dark Tapestry itself. Desna herself has connections to the Dark Tapestry, as shown by the subdomains she grants. As well, Desna is known as one of the very oldest gods of Golarion. And a short bit in Faiths of Purity states that one of her core goals is the guarding of ancient, imprisoned evils. Also, Desna is a goddess of dreams, watching over and guarding the dreams of her worshipers, as well as a goddess of foretelling. However, she prefers that her followers not tell people predictions of unhappy events, and when they divine a grim future they are instead expected to do their best to prevent it.

What do all of these things have in common, and how do they all tie together? We all know what beings lurk in the outer darkness of the Dark Tapestry; is that why Desna has her worshipers keep their eyes on the stars, watching in case some ancient, evil THING attempts to seep down from the stars unnoticed and unseen? We are even specifically told that those who are immersed in the deep mysteries of Desna are instructed to guard against the return of ancient, evil gods. Well, what are the most ancient (imprisoned) evil gods known who are trying to return? Well, there is Rovagug, the Rough Beast, and then there are the Great Old Ones, and some of the Outer Gods (and it is even whispered that Rovagug itself actually IS a Great Old One or Outer God, so there actually may not even be a difference there.)

As for dreams, well, Hastur is known to subtly influence the dreams of creative people, artists and Bards, luring them into madness, but the most direct threat to the dreams of mortals is the Great Cthulhu itself, who directly sends dream messages of madness and evil to sensitives across the cosmos, attempting to influence and coerce them to the worship of the "dead but dreaming" Great Old One. And exploration? What better way to discover lost prisons of forgotten Great Old Ones, then the Desnan drive to find ever further and isolated and unexplored regions to place their mark?

About the Desnan edict about prophecy, only telling of happy futures, and instead of relaying grim predictions, actively setting out to prevent those dark prophecies? What is the stated outcome if the Great Old Ones finally did arise, and the Outer Gods did turn their attention to Golarion? It is said that not even the combined powers of the gods would be enough to save the world.

And lastly, we are told that the worship of Desna is old, extending back to the very birth of the world, and even older than that. We are also told that the Outer Gods and Great Old Ones predate the gods of Golarion... all of them, except, perhaps, for Desna? A fellow being of the stars, traveler of the cosmos, and explorer of all of existence? Perhaps a fellow native of the Dark Tapestry?

It is my proposal that Desna is a direct opponent of the Outer Gods, and their lessers, the Great Old Ones. That she sets her followers to guarding against their followers, the Old Cults, and to watching for signs of their return. That she watches over dreams and guards against the influences of Great Cthulhu and others, and has her followers watch the stars to monitor the activity of the Dark Tapestry and its inhabitants. I believe that Desna is perhaps herself a younger native of the Dark Tapestry, albeit a benign, altruistic one, given her ancient origins, perhaps even one of the very first "true", extraplanar gods, to arise, and since she was not of the Outer Gods, she therefore arose in direct contradiction to them. I love the idea of an ancient, primordial conflict between them. The entire portfolio seems to point toward being ready for opposition to the Outer Gods and their servants, seeking out the mysteries of the outer universe and the inner world of dreams and the mind, and clinging to hope even on the darkest nights.

I just love the direct inclusion of Lovecraft and the Mythos in Golarion, and kept seeing parallels between Desna and the Outer Gods, weather intentional or not, and wanted to increase that link to one of the world's mainstream gods. I think it's a wonderful connection, and I hope it was deliberate. But either way, I think the connection is there, and I would love to see it further explored in future books.

What does everyone think of the ideas? Any opinions would be welcome.