Helfdan's page

I don't think anyone has suggested the low charisma characters don't get the penalty... They definitely should, and to top it off, such characters are rarely trained in diplomacy!

I believe a simple way to play with minimal magic items is to adapt Mike Mearls' s idea from the 4th edition DMG2: Inherent Bonuses.

All characters get bonus to attack and damage of +1 at level 2, +2 at level 7, +3 at 12, +4 at 17 etc

bonus to defenses +1 at lvl4, +2 at 9, +3 at 14, +4 at 19, etc.

The interesting thing is, this doesn't stack with magic bonuses. That is, a lvl 7 fighter with a +1 sword still gets only +2 to hit and damage. The advantage of such a blade would be hardness, and other properties.

In PF, the 'defenses' bonus can be applied to AC and saves... and no-one needs one of their very few items to be a boring cloak of resistance!!

Another advantage: The hero is more important than the weapon. Even if at 15th level you find a +3 sword, you may prefer to wield your trusty old +1 frost sword :)

Kudos to Ion Raven for an interesting thread.

Mechanistically speaking, Shalelu is no surprise... charisma is the least useful stats for most rangers, unless they are heavily into animal companions.

As to the OP concept: This is quite interesting, but you are right. Certain personality types would be associated with a low charisma. And many people may be attracted to those types of personalities. High charisma, as I see it, would be an advantage as a first impression, but would vanish in the long run.

Take the excellent example given by Jiggy above, of his cha 8 character who's focused, pragmatic and driven, with little time for niceties. (the typical rpg good-aligned ranger, in my opinion)

The sorceress in the first post may at first be more drawn to a silver-tongued cha 16 bard. But after getting to know both of them, she may begin to admire the cha 8 warrior for his personality traits.

Of course, if she doesn't take the time to talk to him (or if the warrior does not make the effort to press his suit) she would not realize he has those traits.

Guys, any other ideas? Alternate plan? Do we need more gear, such as ropes and torches? Or are we just fast-forwarding to the next morning?

First of all, may I say I greatly admire your skill and beauty.

Looking over Kyra's thread, although she criticizes his lifestyle, she repeatedly refers to Valeros as 'a fine figure of a man.'

Had you noticed her checking him out? Does it make you jealous, or rather, does it open up interesting opportunities for you?