Halvdan's page

Whilst some of the ideas are not bad, such as spell casting and how traps work.. they've changed far to much.

No.

Although first mentioned in The Manual of Planes 3.5, the first time I came across the concept of a Fey Plane is with 4E's Races & Classes preview. This one thing sealed the deal. I will be buying the Player's Handbook4E and probably The Manual of Planes 3.5, too.

I instantly liked the idea and am continually liking it even more. I just hope they give us more fey creatures to populate it with. So what does everyone else think of the Feywild?

I actually like the sound of it, but they've changed too much of planescape for me in the process.

So i suppose they intend to replace it with a more "cool gamer" version:

Player: I wish to make 10 swords please.
DM: Got the mats? and Pattern?
Player: Yep.
DM: Whats the Patterns colour?
Player: Orange!
DM: Ok then go for it!
Player: Sweet, right I make 10 Felsteel Longblades.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 360. You have a Felsteel Longblade.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 361. You have a Felsteel Longblade.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 362. You have a Felsteel Longblade.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 363. You have a Felsteel Longblade.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 364. You have a Felsteel Longblade.
DM: You gain one point in swordsmithing, you're skill is now 365. You have a Felsteel Longblade.

Edit:
I do find it rather insulting, a crafting profession can be very useful, from the basic making your own sword which whilst not central to the game is a good plus, to being able to put an artifact back together which is central to the game.

They are starting to remind me of the kind of person who when a certain MMOs expansion was announced with epic quality tailored cloth started to whine on the forums that crafting was boring and all epic items should be from dungeons and raids only. Only with more insulting to various minorities because they where immature idiots.

Ive quizzed two of my friends on it. Opening a portal to baator and throwing all developers current work for 4th Ed into the hells with a stern "don't mess with our damned hobby" is pretty much the feeling given off. They will not be using 4th ed and consider it a sick joke.

They also feel that 3rd editiion just needed some changes that would have worked with current lore, more adding in common homebrew type stuff. Also they are not willing to start over when they have already bought a lot of 3.x books. They where expecting a gap like that of AD&D and 3.x to be honest.

Two more anti 4th ed people now. Just told my best mate edd and his brother Edd said it sounded awful but also expect WoTC to screw DnD up.

What will happen in the future? Who knows.

Some will buy the rule books for better rules and discard all lore and make their own up. Some will embrace the change. Others will stick with older versions as they currently are. Some will take a few rules here and there and stick with older versions. Then there will be people like my friend Edd whom when he finds out whats happened to planescape will throw a fit.

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"Looking at the cake is like looking at the future, until you've tasted it, what do you really know? And then, of course, it's too late."

Halvdan wrote:

FabesMinis wrote:

Low Level characters will have more hp in 4E as well so a crit won't have the insta-kill potential for a 1st level PC (or so current thinking goes)

Oh nice, I might be able to play a wizard that doesn't get killed by a summer breeze.

Breeze attack 1d6+1 = 7. Sorry Merlin, you're down to -3 and bleeding. :D

ha you know once i had a wizard whose party got caught in an ambush, Elven wizard no less, by a bunch of woodelves for entering their forest without permission. Out of all the shots the DM fired at us, I was the only one to get hit, and I went to -1... thankfully the elves turned out to be a little more friendly once the insane thief in the party was restrained and they saw a couple of elves, one now dying from an arrow wound, in the party.

A note on gnomes - while I wish they were going to be in the PHB, they need a revision of sorts - there are too many people who hear the word "gnome" and are stuck with images of tinker gnomes and kooky inventions. In my opinion, they need to slide them back closer to the fey.

I've played to much WoW, "gnome" to me brings up mages pyroblasting 0.1 second before the warrior gets aggro on the monster which usually ends up with a monster being very angry that is now killing everyone whilst the gnome lies dead on the floor.

Bringing them back to Fey might work for them, i'm not entirely up on their current 'history' which I think is part of the problem.

Low Level characters will have more hp in 4E as well so a crit won't have the insta-kill potential for a 1st level PC (or so current thinking goes)

Oh nice, I might be able to play a wizard that doesn't get killed by a summer breeze.

Hmmmm, interesting. Passive constant searching sounds interesting as is more PC involved traps.

Just getting the Nat 20 and its a crit will speed things up a bit, which i like. I dunno, i might make it 1.5 damage rounding up. Still gives the hit some ommph but wouldn't go over board.

The paizo forum prides itself on the intelligence of its posters. To even suggest violence against another poster, even if thinly veiled, is six clicks past ban worthy.

Be very careful with such language.

EDIT: I wrote this post before you doubly edited your last post. That said, I guess we're all on the same page now so, "Move on folks. Nothing to see here."

Just trying to keep things civil like.

No problem, i edit posts a bit.

Halvdan wrote:

Sebastian wrote:

Myself, I'm going to say:

"Hello Sebastian's players. WotC has mandated that I change my campaign's cosmology. Being a good drone and incapable of reacting in a rationale and non-extreme manner, I am doing so. I will not be doing anything to ease this change into the world, it just happened over night and now everyone has to deal. If you don't like it, get the hell out right now and take your dice with you."

Which is what i'd do and so would all the other players I know. In fact an old friend of mine has DnD players who'd also take a swing at you for being a **** as well, but his friends are kind of like that.

Sweet! That's the first threat of physical violence I've gotten. I'm amazed it's taken this long.

(there's a chance, a slim chance mind you, that maybe, just maybe, my statement was tongue in cheek and making fun of the attitude expressed by Balabanto that somehow this change must be handled in the most clumsy and ham-fisted manner possible. I hope your friend with the tendency to violence is better capable of recognizing sarcasm than you are. I'd hate to get punched because the puncher has poor reading comprehension.)

For me that wasn't sarcasm, i've come across people like that. http://moltencoreloot.ytmnd.com/ < this is a real WoW guild leader, the guy is nuts and is rather psycho. I've heard this guy scream at people. BTW he is talking about junk thats not worth anything.

BTW violence is not something i condone, its just something which has happened in a few games my DM has hosted... thankfully not the ones i've been in. They usually start off seriously and end up as comedy.

Myself, I'm going to say:

"Hello Sebastian's players. WotC has mandated that I change my campaign's cosmology. Being a good drone and incapable of reacting in a rationale and non-extreme manner, I am doing so. I will not be doing anything to ease this change into the world, it just happened over night and now everyone has to deal. If you don't like it, get the hell out right now and take your dice with you."

Which is what i'd do and so would all the other players I know. In fact an old friend of mine has DnD playing friends who'd also take a swing at you for being a bit of a **** about it as well, but his friends are kind of like that.

Gnomes are in the Monster Manual. So that would be why.

But not in the first release of the PMB tho, which would and has ticked me off. Not sure if they will be in any future releases but i'd rather have gnomes over tieflings in the first release, I'd want tieflings in too mind you. I like 'em but I don't see 'em being that common. I know there has been the revisions to what gnomes are because they so seem kinda in the middle of halfings and dwarves.

I wonder.....if ENWorld and WOTC DIDN'T kybosh negative 4e. threads, would the "4e friendly" nature of those places prove illusory?

I was starting to wonder why there was no threads like "omg, wtf where my gnomes?!" on the wizards forums.

Jeese and I thought blizzard was bad.

Halvdan wrote:

The rules i couldn't give a stuff about. If the rules work better changed then so be it.

However I am a huge lore and history junkie. I know more about planescape than my own countries history, same with FR, Dragonlance and so on.

For me, you cannot cannot just change a lore setting that has taken 25 years to set up so much. Discovering a new plane I can understand, but to suddenly go 'the inner planes are now one plane!' and ' outer planes? No! No Spire! No Sigil! No great wheel!'

im not even going to mention FR because, well I cannot read how they are going to butcher it.

Well, you are first assuming that the "new cosmology" will be official and unable to be changed in anyway. Forgotten Realms never used Great Wheel cosmology, and neither did Eberron. I see no reason why you cant just make up your own cosmology.

as I said i'll just work the great wheel into what I use, which will stay 3.x, as I said with FR i replaced it with the Great Wheel. I consider the view FR has as a belief that is incorrect.

Halvdan wrote:

Removing the negatives of races just dilutes them for me, it is like WoTC are trying to design a system that can be turned into a big MMO. In fact a lot of the changes suggest that.

I've played EQ, EQ2, WoW, DAoC and a few others. Races there *do* have negatives (usually to balance out positives in other directions, such as Humans starting out with 20 in each attribute, while Ogres start out with 30 Str, but only 10 Int).

Hang on a second, those are no where near the negatives you got in DnD in an MMO when you look at DnD compared to them. I've played those games too btw.

Venture Co, Halvan. 70 Human Shadow Priest - Blood Sworn.
Venture Co, Ellatrasa. 60 Human Warlock - Blood Sworn.
and im not going to keep posting alts for that game i have far too many.
Aravilar - EQ and then in EQ2 both Beta and live.

Take WoW for a second.

The human starting stats are nothing at the end of the game when you consider the amount of stats you get on level 70 epics. My Season 3 priest pants (damage) have over 100 stamina on them with clefthide on them. All together fully buffed im hitting 12,000 health, what the hecks 100hp going to change when you're getting 100 sta on a single item.

Halv level 1 - str 20, agi 20, sta 20, int 20, spi 21
Halv level 70 - sta 39, agi 45, sta 763, int 434, spi 166

With DnD even a single stat point makes a difference.

The changes they're making will help with the creation of video games, and WoTC would be dumb not to do so since its a big source of income.

Also, the people who play MMOs today has changed since when I started, now-a-days you get little bloody 14 year old sods who go "omg, warlocks didn't need a nerf we where totally balanced" and then post in PvP "lawls, my video where I pwn 6 people rolling my face across the keyboard" or play hunters.

If you put in say, -10% Sta & +15% int for blood elves and oh i dunno say +15% agi & -10% sta for night elves (to make sure hunters and rogues are just that little more OP) there'd be QQing like you've never seen with "wtf, i can't hit this sodding NE rogue!" and "omg i have 8000hp at 70 with my BE lock!".

The changes just strike me as trying to a) streamline the game for players, but also b) streamline converting DnD to video games since the most successful are the ones that didn't stick to the rules exactly, and with WoW having 9 million people playing... well a MMO for DnD that actually worked well (DDO, ye gods) could bring in a steady cash flow for WoTC.

btw,
Dwarves meek church-mice? Grumpy, blunt, no tact really, swears a lot, calls a spade a spade, calls an elf a poncy lazy tree-hugging giggling flighty... hmm no wonder people think i play dwarves well, thats me :(

As for elves, well actually living in cities is more dangerous. You'd find that living in the country etc extended life. The live expectancy of a farmer was far greater than those living in a city just because disease spreads easier in a city.

Gawds... Can't believe I'm about to defend a decision made in 4E that I don't agree with but...

<snip>

I've always gone with great wheel, i even removed the FR version in 3.0 and put back in the great wheel. The reason why was mostly down to reading what was written about planescape from the planers view. I've never followed an individual campaigns idea for what the planes looks like.

I get that primes will not understand what the planes look like, but you'd think that planers would.

Whilst I understand the planes can change, I feel the change is too drastic. If the planes function the same and I find iconic places such as Sigil and the Spire are still in tact and are considered the 'hub' my ire will subdue a little, not a lot mind.

I also don't like the abyss being elemental now, nor the removal of Erinyes, Succubuss being made Devils, This dead plane....

Then theres the Elves, im not even going to mention the elves apart from Eladrin are Celestials from Arborea, and im stickin with it.

Im sticking with 3.x and just going to continue to use 2nd planescape.

The rules i couldn't give a stuff about. If the rules work better changed then so be it.

However I am a huge lore and history junkie. I know more about planescape than my own countries history, same with FR, Dragonlance and so on.

For me, you cannot cannot just change a lore setting that has taken 25 years to set up so much. Discovering a new plane I can understand, but to suddenly go 'the inner planes are now one plane!' and ' outer planes? No! No Spire! No Sigil! No great wheel!'

im not even going to mention FR because, well I cannot read how they are going to butcher it.

I fail to see why elves needed to be changed so for me their lore is a useless change.

Removing the negatives of races just dilutes them for me, it is like WoTC are trying to design a system that can be turned into a big MMO. In fact a lot of the changes suggest that.

Also, I still don't get why negative attributes are not 'fun'. I found it very fun to play someone with say low cha, int or wis. If no one has any negatives then it makes characters more 'cookie cutter', for me at least.

Hi, I've only just registered, mostly to reply to this topic.

For me, 4E doesn't exist. What they are making for me just is not DnD. Drow are Fey? No Gnomes? Butchered Planes? Sorry no deal.

Should have been a new system, new multiverse. That I could have got behind, but not butchering the entire lore.