Glass_Belwas's page

To be honest with you, Op...this seems to be a rather recurring theme with DMs. I won't say it's a majority because we really only see posts about the bad DMs. I don't think I can recall anyone posting just to say how awesome their DM is.

You need to consider what the DM is getting from his actions. I've run with a DM that often is a control freak, has a specific story he wants to tell, and if players test the boundaries of that story they are often brought back into line via some kind of DM chicanery, not unlike what you're describing with the Summon Armor stuff. On the other hand, sometimes a DM is just bad at being a DM not because he's trying to be unfair or anything, it's just not in their skill set to do well.

Yours sounds more like the first option if he's been at it this long.

But you exist as a person on this planet, and as a result of that you have the right to approach the DM and ask him if he could attempt to make the majority of combat more balanced so you guys aren't forced to run away with your tails between your legs simply because you're outmatched. Now, if you get consistently bad rolls that's something else, and if you use poor tactics that's your own problem. Unless you guys are trying to push forward when you shouldn't be or something else that isn't being relayed, it sounds like your DM is simply either enjoying a bit of a power trip and falling into the classic "It's me vs. my players!" BS mindset a lot of them do, or isn't being very thoughtful in balancing his encounters properly.

If you're worried about them being defensive, try to pull them aside in as least confrontational a way as you can, like well before a session starts and you are alone, or afterwards. Don't put the guy on the spot in front of the whole table or that'll just make them feel cornered, and rarely does anything good come out of that approach.

First off, I appreciate the feedback so far. :)

This list of spells is more penciled in than set in stone, but just to get an idea of what I was looking at getting initially:

So, I have a bit of a mishmash of types of spells, some single target damage, some aoes, some group buffs, some self buffs, and some battlefield control. There is no real overriding theme, I'm just trying to be decent and versatile with my spells since I have a limited selection.

As far as general combat style, I'm currently just wandering around in my full plate with my sword and polearm, having chosen two spells at first level that can be cast without Somatic components (True Strike, Feather Fall) but...long term, I'm a bit on the fence with that because the way this particular gish works itself out I'll either need to rely on Mage Armor and Bracers of Armor for AC boosting, or I'll have to spend 1-2 feats to get Arcane Armor Training/Mastery to mitigate Arcane Spell Failure. If I rely on Mage Armor I'm going to be a bit easier to hit, which makes me think I might grab a bow with a good +STR bonus and do my spells and such from range, and hit things in situations with melee attack only when needed.

My spells would be entirely situational, with the spells I'd likely find myself using quite often would be Alter Self for the +2 Strength, Haste, and probably Invisibility (Greater) as sort of a default array of abilities if I stick to primarily attacking in melee. Things like Scorching Ray would be a nice ranged attack, Black Tentacles seems like an awesome way to get around Saves and SR to handle troublesome casters who typically have weaker CMDs.

My initial thoughts on a Spell Perfection spell were something like Scorching Ray, Fireball, Black Tentacles or Enervation. I could be incorrect on Spell Perfection, but it was my understanding that since my highest level of spells cast is 7th, I can't use any MM feats that would increase a spell past that level. So that'd limit me somewhat in what I could take from a spell/mm feats combination.

I'm not averse to any suggestions, though. I've read some guides on spell choices, but none of them really suggest this, this and this as good choices for this feat. This is my first caster in Pathfinder, so I'm more or less learning on the fly week to week.

As a little background...I'm currently playing in the Shackled City adventure line, I'm creating a gish character that will end up having a build of roughly:

Human - 2 Paladin/3 Sorcerer/6 Dragon Disciple/9 Eldritch Knight

I'm sitting at level 3 (2 Paladin/1 Sorcerer w/ Draconic Bloodline). The following aspects of the character are currently set in stone as far as my GM is concerned:
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Str 17 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 12 Wis 7 Cha 14

Feats: Fey Foundling, Exotic Weapon Prof. Bastard Sword, Arcane Strike
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It's designed to be a melee combatant (currently mixing Greatsword and Ranseur) and mix in some spell utility for buffs, battlefield control, and some damage. I'm scrambling to make up just a bit for not loving the basic Paladin, so I can't just rebuild from the ground up. Near as I can tell from working with PcGen I end up with a 16 BAB and access to level 7 spells. Not perfect but I can live with it. I think.

All that out of the way...

Is Spell Perfection a decent option for this kind of build? It soaks up 3 feats for the Metamagic requirements and 1 for Spell Perfection itself. With DD and EK having a nice amount of bonus feats I'm not feeling particularly feat starved, but I wanted to see if there was perhaps something better that they could be spent on.

I'm trying to stay away from spells that have Saves (because my DC won't be as high as a ground-up Sorcerer) and, if possible, SR (because my caster level isn't = to my HD, and we don't use traits). I'm not against using them if they're worthwhile but I know going in they're not going to be quite as effective as a full level 20 caster.

If you think Spell Perfection IS a good idea, which MM feats would you recommend to qualify for it, and which spell would you recommend for Spell Perfection?

I'm also open to suggestions on feats, level allocation (all PrC stuff is subject to GM approval but he's signed off on DD and EK), and spells.

The Mystic Theurge route is an interesting idea, Dragonchess Player. In that instance would you recommend swapping to more of an archer style since the Mystic Theurge is a lower HP class?

Appreciate the feedback. :)

And, yeah, I ran that by him, and of all the combinations I threw at him he seemed most okay with that one. (Others he liked were Cleric/Paladin and Sorcerer/Paladin, kinda nixed Ranger/Paladin on the basis of few Undead to fight, plus that would be rather MAD)

I debated the Int score, but I was looking at basically getting 6 base from Bard levels + 1 for Human, then I was (in the builds I toyed with) taking the Eclectic feat to get 1 more skill point per Bard level from Favored Class, and also being able to take the extra HP if mine was looking even lower than anticipated. After 8 points per level I was just kind of sticking points wherever, so I kind of thought the 2 points could be better spent elsewhere. It'd pick up those low Paladin skill points, though, for sure...

The archery build makes a lot of sense. It's not what you think of when you think of Paladins most of the time, but that's more a matter of stereotypes than anything else. I still can't entirely shake the prospect of being more melee than ranged, if due to largely having an image in my head of being a more mobile combatant, using things like Acrobatics to avoid AoO and Light Armor to have full speed. This might bite me in the @$$ later though because it doesn't seem to lend itself towards being the primary 'tank' type person, particularly against heavy hitting enemies.

If you were going this route, would you think going mostly Bard for the spells/abilities would be of greater value than the additional scaling abilities of the Paladin like LoH, Smite Evil? Or do you think the more balanced approach is warranted of something like a 10/10 build?

I'm going into this very aware that it'll hardly be optimized by any means. I'm trying to make sure that while it isn't optimal it also isn't so messy mechanically that it's unplayable too.

EDIT:To give you a little more idea of what I'm envisioning, here's a rough estimate of what the final product would look like without any equipment other than a MW Bastard Sword just to show damage range, counting 1 stat increase to STR, 4 to CHA

At first glance it doesn't look horrible to me. I'll admit I'm possibly overlooking something here, though.

For spells, I tried to pick things that were more party support or self-buffs so the DCs wouldn't be as hurt by a lower starting CHA score, and could potentially offset some of the loss of heavier armor/HP in some cases with spells like Mirror Image, Displacement, Blink. Possibly a wand of Enlarge since that seems to be a pretty nice buff for melee dps.

A few exceptions were made for things that seem most effective against enemies that seem to naturally have weaker saves (Hold Person, Slow on low Will Save enemies).

It has no gear assigned to it because I have no idea what sort of gear will be available to us later on, and I didn't want to plan a build specifically around one item when I have no idea when/if that item will be available. I would assume a semi-standard set of AC boosting items such as Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Deflection, STR/CHA boosting items, and most likely something at the very least like a Mithral Breastplate for Light Armor, along with a Buckler so I have a shield if needed.

Commentary/critiques are definitely welcome on every aspect of this from stats to feats to gear to spells; very little of it is set in stone. I appreciate the time of anyone who weighs in on this with help. :D

Longtime D&D player, new to the Pathfinder stuff specifically; playing in my first PF adventure now.

In a game currently that's a mixture of moderately heavy RP + combat, and playing in a home-brew world, currently running the Shackled City adventure. I'm trying not to meta on it, so haven't looked ahead to know what is coming.

We currently have (all level 1's) Wizard, Monk, Cleric, Rogue, Psion (Wilder), and I'm a level 1 Paladin. The DM runs a helper Barbarian as well, although the Barbarian's effectiveness has been, shall we say...limited.

The way this DM usually operates is we top out around level 10-12, so I took the initial level of Paladin with that in mind. When it was revealed we were going to level 20 that it changed my outlook on what I wanted to play.

It's not the LG stipulation that I'm finding boring, it's the mechanical limitations that preclude me from being very useful or fun outside of fighting evil. So, while I respect that the Paladin can annihilate evil things, I find it very one dimensional as a class. It has little in the way of many useful out of combat skills aside from Diplomacy. I tend to like versatility in what I play, which made the idea of multiclassing into Bard appealing. Being a combat juggernaut is fine to a point, but having the ability to contribute in other ways is important to me.

My DM is a little rigid in terms of what classes and combos he is okay with, as he tries to get everyone to be very character-centric and make the classes/feats/skills/choices in general make a sort of cohesive sense. The idea of mixing Oracle/Paladin wasn't well received due to the character being a follower a LG Sun Deity. So it's somewhat limiting, but not so much that I'd throw in the towel altogether. Also, he doesn't seem all that willing to allow for a retraining/change of class, and I'm more or less stuck as Human for my race.

I looked at Bard as offering a lot of utility with its wide array of skills, buffing/support magic/abilities and it's still somewhat combat viable with a 3/4 BAB, as well as having synergy in the CHA scores. D8 HP isn't as good as d10, obviously, but I was thinking the Toughness feat might make up some of that ground.

We operate on a 20 point buy system.

My initial stat loadout when I was considering straight Paladin was:

STR 16 (18 w/ racial) DEX 10 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 10 CHA 14

tinkering with a bit of revision to keep the concept of a holy warrior with a bit more skill than brawn I altered it to:

STR 15 (17 w/ racial) DEX 14 CON 14 INT 10 WIS 8 CHA 14

The goal here was to get a bit more Dex to make Light Armor as Bard less of a pain than a 10 Dex.

I still envision something of a melee combatant, hence keeping Strength high enough to make that viable, and dropping 1 point into STR at level 4 to get to 18. Then pumping the remainder into CHA. Spell selection is mostly a combination of utility spells like Cure X Wounds, Feather Fall, Invisibility, with some combat offensive/defense buffs like Haste, Blink, and then supplementing those spells with some from the Paladin spell list as levels allow.

I've been tinkering with a few builds on PcGen just to get an idea of what the numbers look like, and I'm not unhappy with the following options:

Paladin 10/Bard 10 or Paladin 4/Bard 16

What I'm asking for is a bit of help in determining which might be the best way to go here in terms of getting the most bang for my buck from my level assignments, feats, skill assignments, spells in terms of making a kind of well-rounded holy swordsman who could fight effectively in melee with something like a Greatsword/Falchion/Bastard Sword, toss some magic around, scout, be a Face, as well as tossing out the bardic performance songs to make the people around him better too.

Poking holes in the idea is also great so long as you explain why you think certain parts of the concept are flawed and I've overlooked something crucial.

I'm not married to either of the above options in terms of how many levels in each, but at this point I'm more or less stuck with at least 1 level of Paladin, and while the general concept is a charismatic holy warrior, I don't really want to play him as the tin can who is only effective in combat or talking people into being nicer to the party.

I'm also not married to the stat assignment either, so I could potentially become more of an archer if it really seemed superior to max DEX at the expensive of STR.

Constructive criticism is appreciated. :)