Ghaar Drona's page

(Pg 17) Exemplar
Instead of Key Ability, it should be Key Attribute
Instead of ability boost, it should be attribute boost

(Pg 18) Attribute Boosts
Attribute boosts at level 1 are missing

(Pg 19) Spark Transcendence
“You can unleash an ikon’s transcendence ability only if you are holding it (if it’s a weapon ikon) or wearing it (if it’s a worn ikon).”
If you read this sentence literally, you can never unleash the transcendence ability of a body ikon.
It should probably use the symbol to

(Pg 20) Ability Boosts
This section should be on page 18 and should mention attribute instead of ability and add four free boosts at level 1

(Pg 21) Greater Resolve
“When you roll a success at a Will save, you get a critical success.”
Resolve at 7th level already gives this.

(Pg 25) Leap the Falls
Should be a 2nd level feat or be printed in the section for level 1 feats.

Quote:

CUTTING WITHOUT BLADE FEAT 20

EXEMPLAR
While tales of your divine ikons have spread far and wide, you’ve realized that as they are all manifestations of your soul, the object itself is unnecessary. Your ikons disintegrate into golden light. You can place your divine spark into any object in your possession, even a nonthreatening object like a single strand of grass, to transform it into a fully functional copy of your ikon made out of pure divine radiance. You can do this as a free action immediately before or after Striking with or otherwise using the ikon.

The only way I see it's useful is you can apply it to any weapon at will, or if you lose your physical ikons... which I don't see coming up in most adventures.

Is there something I'm not understanding?

Quote:

A PLACE BEYOND MORTALITY FEAT 20

EXEMPLAR
Prerequisites Claim Advanced Domain
Frequency once per day
Requirements You have at least 1 Focus Point in your focus pool.
Your domain is not just a representation of your power but of your divine essence and the potential immortality that essence represents. You cease aging. When you would die for any reason, you can immediately expend all your remaining Focus Points as a free action that can be taken at any time and regardless of your current condition to survive at 0 Hit Points, purge yourself of any negative conditions. When you do, you heal yourself for half of your total Hit Points, stand back up in your current square, instantly summon your weapon ikon to your hand, and Shift your Immanence to any of your ikons.

Definitely has Cool Factor, and never aging is always cool, but you have to DIE for it to come up. Not just go down to 0 hit points, but DIE. So it seems less useful (and will come up less often) than a Level 20 feat seems to warrant.

For the second one, if you are under a lot of conditions, your party might decide to kill you to get rid of them.

Honestly, avatar all elements kineticists main advantage is versatility because you sacrifice many boosts that junctions provides.

I see that you take Safe Elements at lvl 6. Being honest, this doesn't worth! Instead ask to your GM if he/she can use the normal dying rules instead and use or ask to someone to use medicine or stabilize cantrip instead.

Freeing this feat slot you can take Versatile Blasts that is more useful because it will allow you to get basically all energy types in your blasts (with exception of sonic) + vitality (the new name of positive damage).

This way you can compensate the smaller firepower of not have some offensive junctions exploiting monsters weaknesses and such weaknesses are pretty common in mid to high levels and is something that an avatar all elements kineticist can benefit pretty well.

I also recommend to switch some lvl 12 or higher feat to get Effortless Impulse. Its a "must have" feat due the great number of sustainable impulses and be able to sustain them as a free-action improves your action economy a lot.

I also recommend to take Rapid Reattunement. I know that in the end (lvl 20) Omnikinesis does a better job but until there you have a long way and for an avatar all elements kineticist being able to retrain 2 impulses per 10 minute rest could adapt you to any situation that you may need.

I don't get your point about Safe Elements. The aim is to keep your stances from harming your allies. I don't see what dying rules has anything to do with that.

We do get vitality through wood. But I think it should replace Weapon Infusion if anything.

Both Effortless Impulse and Rapid Reattunement are great, but I worry that this would lead to me having far fewer impulses. I am not sure how to balance these considerations.

It is difficult to build a six element kineticist build that is satisfying, given they don't get any junctions and find it more difficult to take non-impulse class feats. Here is my attempt.

The build in detail

Pathbuilder Link

Google Docs Link

The idea is to build a melee kineticist that can lock down enemies. Later on, we get good at ranged too, once we get flying speed and can make use of magic items to cast spells. I would appreciate any constructive feedback.

I have not used the variant rule Free Archetype. If our group ends up using that rule, which Archetype would you suggest?

Is there a specific rule that prevents you from doing so. In Pathfinder 1e, there was a rule that said

> Applied contact poisons and injury poisons cannot inflict more than one dose of poison per weapon at a time (because the poison on the weapon only lasts for one successful attack before it wears off).

Such a rule is missing in 2e.

Ghaar Drona wrote:

Deus Ciplin wrote:

WINTER SLEET says that "A creature that moves on this uneven ground immediately falls unless it Balances". The exact meaning is "A creature that uses an action with move trait on this uneven ground immediately falls unless the action is Balance."

Considering this, moving a creature after using a 2A impulse of water is certainly the forced movement instead of an action with move trait.

Therefore, the creature neither falls, nor needs to attempt an Acrobatic or Reflex check.

So if an ally moves you using some class feature, you are immune from Winter Sleet?

If the class feature says it pushes or pulls, you fall. If it doesn't, you don't (if your GM rules that Winter Sleet counts as "dangerous" terrain). You still are off-balance (flat-footed) and have to Balance if you make any of your own movement, so you're not immune to Winter Sleet.

I am not convinced that there is any rules distinction between you using your movement and your ally moving you. That has never been the case in any of the earlier class features.

WINTER SLEET says that "A creature that moves on this uneven ground immediately falls unless it Balances". The exact meaning is "A creature that uses an action with move trait on this uneven ground immediately falls unless the action is Balance."

Considering this, moving a creature after using a 2A impulse of water is certainly the forced movement instead of an action with move trait.

Therefore, the creature neither falls, nor needs to attempt an Acrobatic or Reflex check.

So if an ally moves you using some class feature, you are immune from Winter Sleet?

I disagree that push and pull aren't well defined. Lots of things say they're a push. If they don't, they aren't a push. (Pull is rarer, but still has to say it is one.)

In this book alone you can get a push from three different water impulses, Steam Knight composite, and the air crit junction.

If push and pull are well defined, can you provide me with a definition with a reference?

aobst128 wrote:

Yeah, metal really just wants you to fight armored dudes and metal constructs. Werewolves and fiends too I guess with plate in treasure. It has no other niche or play style unfortunately

Okay. Now you've inspired me. I'm going to find a way to make Metal viable/competitive that doesn't depend on your enemies conveniently all being the specific kinds of things that are vulnerable to you.

There's gotta be something.

I think it is already viable. Metal doesn't have any specific strengths or weaknesses outside of enemies wearing/made of metal. But for other enemies, it's not bad, just mediocre.

Ghaar Drona wrote:

YuriP wrote:

Yes. This is covered by Forced Movement:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 475 4.0 - Forced Movement wrote:

If forced movement would move you into a space you can’t occupy—because objects are in the way or because you lack the movement type needed to reach it, for example—you stop moving in the last space you can occupy. Usually the creature or effect forcing the movement chooses the path the victim takes. If you’re pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can’t put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise. In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there’s doubt on where forced movement can move a creature.

So unless the GM decides different you can force move a creature to an uneven ground to try to force it to do a balance check.

Also note that at this level monsters with acrobatics can pass this Balance DC pretty easily.

A lot of monsters do not have acrobatics though.

Cordell Kintner wrote:

Forced Movement can not force a creature into a dangerous position

That's the opposite of the rules. See the post above you.

You missed the part right before the bold text that states "If you’re pushed or pulled". This impulse does not push or pull anything. Shoving pushes the target for example, so someone could Shove a creature into your aura, and they might slip and fall, but your Impulse Junction can not.

The basic rule of thumb is that if an effect doesn't say it pushes or pulls a creature, it doesn't.

Push and pull aren't well defined. I don't understand why you came to the conclusion that Water Impulse Junction doesn't push or pull. Do you have a reference for the claim that 'The basic rule of thumb is that if an effect doesn't say it pushes or pulls a creature, it doesn't.'?

Errenor wrote:

Claxon wrote:

And, it's worth noting that just because a skill isn't listed in a monster's entry doesn't mean they have a 0 in that skill.

But it means exactly that:

"Skills The creature is trained or better in these skills. For untrained skills, use the corresponding ability modifier. "
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=785

The problem with this assessment is that it doesn't take into account the general design paradigms Paizo put into effect, and then ignored when writing this ability.

It shouldn't use Acrobatics, or rather should also allow a reflex save much like grease. Rarely does anything force a monster to make a skill check in reaction to something PCs do, it's usually saves or checks against AC. It's bad design (IMO) to call for an acrobatics check or reflex save.

Because of that, I would give monster that do not have a listed acrobatics modifier a low skill value. Though upon further consideration, I'd probably just make this ability like grease and say acrobatics or reflex. That's probably the best way to run it.

I want to know about RAW, not your house rules. If a monster doesn't have Acrobatics, then RAW they use their Dex Attribute Modifier. There is no ambiguity about that. Making that Acrobatics or Reflex is clearly a house rule.

Yes. This is covered by Forced Movement:

Source Core Rulebook pg. 475 4.0 - Forced Movement wrote:

If forced movement would move you into a space you can’t occupy—because objects are in the way or because you lack the movement type needed to reach it, for example—you stop moving in the last space you can occupy. Usually the creature or effect forcing the movement chooses the path the victim takes. If you’re pushed or pulled, you can usually be moved through hazardous terrain, pushed off a ledge, or the like. Abilities that reposition you in some other way can’t put you in such dangerous places unless they specify otherwise. In all cases, the GM makes the final call if there’s doubt on where forced movement can move a creature.

So unless the GM decides different you can force move a creature to an uneven ground to try to force it to do a balance check.

Also note that at this level monsters with acrobatics can pass this Balance DC pretty easily.

A lot of monsters do not have acrobatics though.

Forced Movement can not force a creature into a dangerous position

That's the opposite of the rules. See the post above you.

In the new kineticist class, there is some confusion around how winter sleet works.

The text of Winter Sleet says

> 'A creature that moves on this uneven ground immediately falls unless it Balances (DC 15).'

If you have Water Impulse Junction,

> 'After the impulse's other effects, you can move one creature targeted by the impulse or in its area 5 feet in any direction'

So, if you have an enemy creature in the aura, you can move them once per round and that makes them go prone. Is that a correct reading?

Anyone from the last airbender or the legend of korra.

Is there a list of creatures that appear only in Pathfinder Society scenarios? I don't have those scenarios and would be grateful if you can provide me with some reference.

So what you are attempting to accomplish is to use a 1st level spell to create a location of total safety where the entire party can use ranged attacks to kill a large, and likely much higher level, enemy with no risk to the party. Yes?

I don't think any GM is going to allow that. Especially not in PFS.

Why wouldn't the GM allow that? Based on the earlier rulings you presented, it seems clear to me that it can be done. Do you think the spell works differently in combat? If so, why? What are the limitations on the spell? Can you ground them in the text of the spell.

What if the enemy is large? Huge?

We can use it in combat too. For example, if I create a staircase and get to the top, could the enemies follow me?

Interesting. Do you think a medium caster can create a large staircase?

What about the staircase part?

Helpful Steps is a spell from Firebrands. https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=1286

I have difficulty grasping what is going on with this spell. I have several questions:

1. How big is the staircase? Can Large creatures climb it?

2. What about Huge or Gargantuan creatures?

3. How many creatures can fit in horizontally?

4. What exactly happens if you destroy the staircase, or the ladder?

This spell is so bizarre, I have a tough time grokking it.

Ghaar Drona wrote:

I appreciate everyone's comment about scatter scree, but I think you are ignoring the uses of difficult terrain. The idea is to combine it with other hazards and to create squares where the enemy doesn't want to go.

Say, you cast grease on top of scatter scree squares. This now allows you to create a 10 foot square corridor which the enemy wouldn't like to pass. Combine this with gale blast and you can create very effective battlefield controls.

I like Electric Arc, but I am skeptical that it is that good past level 8 or so. I am not sure whether that is worth 5 stars.

I'm fully aware of the value of difficult terrain and especially being able to place it anywhere I want (played more than one character with Mystical Debris in D&D 4E). The thing with ground-based difficult terrain is that it can be bypassed by bypassing the ground. You're worried about Electric Arc getting less good at higher level? I think at higher level almost nothing needs to care about a couple of squares of difficult terrain between fly speeds, climb speeds, teleports, ignoring that type of difficult terrain, air walk, sufficiently high burrow speeds, sufficiently high base speeds, or even just having a decent athletics check to be able to jump the squares which is trivial at higher levels.

@Dubious Scholar, agreed that Spout is just worse Scatter Scree unless adventuring around bodies of water and/or getting specific boosts to water effects.

I did not consider scaling as much. I think you have changed my mind about it.

Spout's main disadvantage is that Scatter Scree is basically always better.

On Acid Splash - the damage is subpar, but it's not quite as bad as it might seem. It adds an average 4.5 damage every two spell levels (aside from 3rd, which probably adds 4 with caster stat), compared to normal cantrips adding 5. If it just started at 1d6+stat and heightened to add +1d6, +1 splash, +1 persistent, it would be good enough I think. Probably more 2/5 instead of a 1/5, really.

At some spell ranks your damage would be subpar, and at some spell ranks it would be OK. But I agree, 1/5 was too harsh.

Ghaar Drona wrote:

That's precisely my point. There are no rules for splash damage as such (correct me if I am wrong). The only time you deal damage to nearby enemies is if you use something with splash trait. The absence of rules on splash damage and the absence of splash trait indicate that the default rule should apply, which is that only the target takes damage.

The key to reading Acid splash is Corrosive Body, which says "You can cast acid splash as an innate spell; the splash damage affects all creatures within 15 feet instead of the normal 5 feet."

So yes Acid Splash really does splash.

Thank you for replying! I am a big fan of your guide and a big part of creating this guide is to do something similar but something that reflects my philosophy. I did not know about corrosive body. I still think it is poor editing to not be clear on the rules for splash damage, but this is somewhat more convincing.

I appreciate everyone's comment about scatter scree, but I think you are ignoring the uses of difficult terrain. The idea is to combine it with other hazards and to create squares where the enemy doesn't want to go.

Say, you cast grease on top of scatter scree squares. This now allows you to create a 10 foot square corridor which the enemy wouldn't like to pass. Combine this with gale blast and you can create very effective battlefield controls.

I like Electric Arc, but I am skeptical that it is that good past level 8 or so. I am not sure whether that is worth 5 stars.

Aside from acid related needs, Acid Splash is a less than ideal choice. Anything that has a weakness to splash damage is also weak to aoe damage.

Dancing Lights requires sustaining.

Light scales like every other cantrip. As such, per RAW, it supercedes any magical darkness lower than its level. Enemy casts a 4th level darkness spell when you're 9th level? LOLZ! Joke's on you enemy! I defeat your 4th level spell with my cantrip!

Spout is an aoe spell even out of water. Aoe spells like Spout and Scatter Scree can trigger swarm and troop weaknesses. Also, such spells can be used to attack concealed or hidden enemies without regard for flat checks. I'd personally give it at least 3 stars.

Thank you for your comment!

A five foot cube is unlikely to cover multiple creatures, unless they are tiny. I see your point about weakness to area damage, but are they common enough to warrant special consideration? There are 77 monsters that are weak to area damage, which is about 0.3% of all monsters.

Well... calling Scatter Scree a 5-star, while calling Electric Arc a 4-star is certainly an interesting take.

Also, one of the downsides you list for electric Arc - that damaging cantrips become obsolete - is only speaking to full casters (and I'm not sure about them). For wave casters and martials that dip archetypes or ancestries for cantrips, it's just not true. I could understand thinking of that as somewhat edge case, but you list Protect Companion as being 4-star in spite of it being far more niche... especially when the spell itself is basically a modified companion-only version of the Shield cantrip.

Your take on Acid Splash - that it isn't a weapon, and therefore we should ignore the sole provided (weapon-specific) definition of splash, assume that the term means little to nothing, and therefore conclude that the flavor text is incorrect? That's also an interesting take, and made more interesting by the fact that even with full-on bomblike splash damage, acid Splash isn't particularly impressive.

Cantrip damage doesn't become obsolete because of better options. It becomes obsolete because average enemy HP grows faster than cantrip damage. I realize that it's not an obvious fact and this is something that requires some statistics. I will try to put a detailed report on how cantrip damage scales relative to HP.

Maybe I am overvaluing Scatter Scree, but it seems to me that battlefield control can be really valuable. The difference b/w a high damaging cantrip and a low damage cantrip isn't that much, all things considered. Either way, martial damage is going to be more important. Making it so that martials have an easier time by battlefield control seems to me like a better strategy than trying to squeeze out every point of damage.

The thing about Acid Splash is that it lacks the Splash Trait. So, even though it does splash damage, nothing in the rules imply that the splash damage applies to nearby enemies.

Acid Blast wrote:

Does not have splash trait, so the flavor text is misleading and does not affect nearby enemies.

I don't see any justification for this assertion. What makes you think the lack of the Splash trait prevents splash damage from happening? AFAICT the Splash trait only applies to equipment.

Splash trait rules text: "When you use a thrown weapon with the splash trait, you don’t add your Strength modifier to the damage roll. If an attack with a splash weapon fails, succeeds, or critically succeeds, all creatures within 5 feet of the target (including the target) take the listed splash damage. On a failure (but not a critical failure), the target of the attack still takes the splash damage. Add splash damage together with the initial damage against the target before applying the target’s weaknesses or resistances. You don’t multiply splash damage on a critical hit."

There's nothing there referencing spells in any way, and the only things listed under the Splash trait on AoN are equipment (mostly bombs).

That's precisely my point. There are no rules for splash damage as such (correct me if I am wrong). The only time you deal damage to nearby enemies is if you use something with splash trait. The absence of rules on splash damage and the absence of splash trait indicate that the default rule should apply, which is that only the target takes damage.

Does that mean that splash damage does nothing for this spell? No. There are 15 monsters with weakness to splash damage (reference).

Hi everyone! I have created a spell guide at here.

I would appreciate any kind of feedback. I have completed working on cantrips. I intend to complete spells of all ranks and keep the guide up to date. You can post the comments here, or put a comment in the google doc.

There is some conflicting information on this topic.

According to World Guide page 75 (sidebar) "4690 AR The Gorilla King of the city of Usaro in the Mwangi Expanse, Ruthazek, attacks Alkenstar and seizes the Gunworks’ largest bombard as a trophy."

According to page 86-87 (sidebar) of the World Guide, however "4684 AR The Gorilla King of Usaro sends an army through tunnels beneath the Shattered Range mountains to attack Alkenstar. His forces make off with a number of firearms and the Gunworks’ biggest bombard as a trophy. After years of attacks against Sargava’s colonizers, the child-god Walkena sacks Kalabuto for the first time."

So, did the attack happen in 4690 or in 4684? Did the attack take 6 years? I looked at the Mwangi Expanse guide, but it makes no mention of this attack (as far as I could find).

I looked at some earlier sources, according to Inner Sea World guide

(page 37), "4690 Gorilla King Ruthazek attacks Alkenstar and seizes the Gunworks’ largest bombard as a trophy." and

(page 111) "And while many of Alkenstar’s leaders worry about Geb or Nex attempting to annex their duchy, to date the only significant attacks on the fledgling nation from beyond its borders have come from the west in the form of raids by strange giants or attacks by the charau-ka armies of the Gorilla King. These latter conflicts came to a head in 4690, when the Gorilla King led his armies through a series of tunnels under the Shattered Range to make a surprise attack on Alkenstar. The Grand Duchy attempted to use its largest weapon against the Gorilla King—an experimental bombard. But when the bombard misfired, it fell into the Gorilla King’s clutches, and while Alkenstar’s army managed to finally defeat and drive off the Gorilla King and collapse the tunnels to the Mwangi Expanse, they lost more than just their pride."

Review: Really good adventure with a fun storyline with meaningful stakes and consequences. Good mixture of combat and roleplaying, and plenty of opportunity for different classes to shine.