Ghaal's page

Also the birthmark counts as a holy symbol for channeling, but you still have to present it. I believe the line is "Physical manifestation of your faith." AKA Holy Symbol, which is a physical manifestation of your faith. You could just as easily make a called shot on that spot and damage it, ruining the birthmark till they restore it with heal or something.

I've had clerics use them, but they have to be easily exposed, so a birthmark of your deity on your buttocks wouldn't do any good if you're wearing pants or covering up, but on your hand/face/arm would be fairly easy to show. Your chest might be harder unless you plan to run around exposing yourself or go shirtless.

Birthmark does not allow you to channel with it. It lists what you can use it for and channeling didn't make the list.

Mojorat wrote:

The Human Diversion wrote:

Ghaal wrote:

Additionally I'm a different game when I was playing a cleric I was told I was unable to present my holy symbol with my hands bound, so some aspect of holding it out to display seems to be required.

Where is the rule that the GM in your anecdote was trying to enforce?

Mojorat wrote:

Well pathfinder is a permissive game. You need rules saying you can do something. And I have several examples of "hands free" holy symbol alternatives being expensive or using feats.

You need a rule saying you can just embroider the symbols.

Holy symbol tattoo is 100 to there is a feat to consecrate a shield I think.. I forget the name.

Can you please cite the rule that says this? I'm not trying to be a jerk or be rude, but I do like to have proof of things people claim are rules, if only to enforce it correctly next time I run or play.

Are you able to copy/paste some official text and/or provide a link to the PRD page that has a rule on this?

ere how do you become a 4 star gm without understanding how the system works. If I am a player I show up at your table I say I have hoy symbols on my robes. Proof is on me to show what book it is in and that I own it.

The fact that pf is a permissive system isn't explained anywhere its.. just exactly how it works. You can do things because a rule says you can.

This means if your doing core only your only option is a normal holy symbol.

Again, I apologize if I'm being rude, I'm merely asking you to point out where in the rules that states a holy symbol can't be attached/glued to another piece of equipment.

I try to cite rules (either pages or URLs) when I'm in a rules discussion here, and when I have people disagree with me I like to see them give factual basis for what they say.

Finally, I made it to being a 4 star GM by running a fun table and having people often sign up when I run. You're always welcome at any game table that I GM, and I GM quite a...

Right now you're invoking what I refer to as the "air bud rule". Much like in the rules of basketball where it does not say a dog can't play basketball, in the rules of pathfinder it does not say the holy symbol can't be part of the outfit. Jesus could fly and he knew karate because the bible never said that he couldn't.

In pathfinder, rules need to be in place saying that you can do something, or else you can't. Your shirt with the holy symbol on it is just a shirt with a holy symbol on it, unless it is a specific listed item that acts as a holy symbol.

To get back to my main point, how does one present their holy symbol?

So, this enemy Cleric just started Faith-Hilling his Holy Symbol?

YESSS!!!! That is awesome! Thank you for that!

Kind of, it was suggested that all they need to do was stick out their chest. I believe that the illustration for cleric is them presenting their holy symbol.

"You were born with a strange birthmark that looks very similar to the holy symbol of the god you chose to worship later in life.

Benefits: This birthmark can serve you as a divine focus for casting spells, and as a physical manifestation of your faith, and it increases your devotion to your god. You gain a +2 trait bonus on all saving throws against charm and compulsion effects."

Sweet, birthmark doesn't count as a holy symbol for channeling, so I still get to grease the holy symbol that isn't part of their body.

However, instant shutdown tactics targeting a holy symbol, such as the aforementioned wooden one during Shades of Ice part n, should be unadvised or just shot down since they practically bypass climatic boss battles.

This isn't instant shut down though, they pass the first reflex save and the spell has no effect. Even if they fail it, when they attempt to present it they get another save and if they pass they can hold it up that round.

I'm at level 1 man... I could color spray and just end the battle. Instead I wanted to be awesome and do something clever that others in the group might not have thought of that would keep us alive.

It's a good tactic, but in this case, it's really up to the GM. I know that fight, it can be a tough one. Personally, I would have allowed your tactic to play out as it's a pretty smart use of the spell, though I'd definitely make sure (as you did) that your PC had first seen the holy symbol be presented, as in having seen the cleric cast or channel.

Grease is awesome because it's a Swiss army spell, it's able to do a lot if you get creative with it. I think that most of the time the holy symbol is accessible enough that you can see it and know what it is before watching them cast or channel. When it comes down to GM discretion things get terrible, I would need to ask before the game if it would be allowed to work like that, and people will say no just to say it.

Additionally I'm a different game when I was playing a cleric I was told I was unable to present my holy symbol with my hands bound, so some aspect of holding it out to display seems to be required.

Well pathfinder is a permissive game. You need rules saying you can do something. And I have several examples of "hands free" holy symbol alternatives being expensive or using feats.

You need a rule saying you can just embroider the symbols.

Holy symbol tattoo is 100 to there is a feat to consecrate a shield I think.. I forget the name.

Yes, thank you for getting the "air bud rule" the hell out of here.

Also, OP, it would help to know the name of the scenario, even if you want to spoiler it or whatever

The scenario is irrelevant, I just want to know if you can grease a holy symbol to make it difficult to present.

I was playing a pfs game last night and we reached the final encounter of the session, from the information we had gathered in the town we knew that one of the npcs in the encounter was a divine spellcaster (cleric from the sounds of it) and a description of what this character looked like, having previously encountered divine casters before my character had a plan.

In the first round of combat I attempt to cast grease on the clerics holy symbol so that a reflex save is needed in order to channel or cast spells. The GM then flips through papers for a moment and then tells me that a holy symbol is not listed amongst the characters inventory. I ask how she plans to cast spells and channel and I am told that her holy symbol is likely embroidered on her outfit (though there is nothing to suggest this). I decide to cast another spell at another target and move on. The enemy cleric comes up in combat and the first thing she does is channel negative energy. I naturally ask where her holy symbol is because I had intended to make this a thing she couldn't do, now I am told that it is worn on her necklace. I naturally then ask why I was unable to grease it before, now I'm told that it wouldn't have mattered because to "present" her holy symbol she would just need to stick out her chest (like I stripper or something I guess).

We are level 1. I find that greasing a holy symbol to make it difficult for a divine caster to cast it's spells isn't over powered and as one of two level one spells I get for the day, it should be allowed to function properly.

My question is, can one grease a holy symbol and then require the spell caster to make a reflex save to cast spells with a divine focus or channel energy? How exactly is a holy symbol "presented"?