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Looking back at my original question I clearly left it more open than I intended

I alluded to “optional extras” used in 1E to boost skills and feats

That is what I meant here

I did not mean removing level to proficiency as it fundamentally changes the system - and is a big enough change that I didn’t need to ask about it .

Similarly I don’t mean the option stat changes (removal of Con etc) - that is not an extra but a system change

But thanks for pointing out the potential problems with ancestry feats. I was attracted to the paragon option but might steer clear now. Or at least do what was suggested and give an extra one of my choosing

Yes a tinker / artificer that uses the alchemist style rules to come up with trinkets on the fly as needed

Issue is of course that there is definite debate over how well this actually works out for the alchemist. And they have far more obvious combat damage things like bombs and items to overcome DR

I haven’t used them yet but I also like the way some of the optionals work. It’s worth remembering that versatility is also power, but I don’t really think they’ll add too much so long as a little care is taken. The ancestral paragon does seem more powerful, because several of the race feats are very strong, but that still seems like it’ll be something that can be managed. The MC option will probably work best for preventing a flood of power if you limit it in some way. Maybe asking no one doubles down on their classes focus, or asking everyone to pick an archtype. Or depending on setting just giving everyone a specific archtype like Pathfinder or Hellknight. But however you do it I don’t think you’re going to end up with more power than a plus 1 or 2 equivalent, the math in the system is tight and they seem to have been watching out for combinations of things much more carefully this edition.

I hadn't thought about the ancestry one being as powerful as you suggest

What do you mean by the "flood of power" for the MC part?
And when you say double down on class focus do you mean taking a caster class and a caster multiclass? I am a little unclear

I would probably prefer if I did the free archetype to exclude the class archetypes. Leave it to the thematic ones or the new ones (like cavalier, pirate etc.) when they are released

Has anyone tried moving from 1E to 2E at higher levels (say above 7) and playing games from that.

Are there any significant pit falls over starting at level 1? I would imagine spell casters having many more spells to check on (which is sort of true in any edition)

Does the game lend itself to a *relatively* straight forward transition? And is there a point that anyone can potentially think of that would be too high a level to move over because of reasons I am clearly not aware of.

(All this is based on the assumption the GM is fine converting things over including monsters)

Have many people had chance to add in variant rules like the extra ancestry feats or free archetype?

Do they have a significant impact on the power level / challenge level or does the 2E maths avoid that?

I have been running a 1E game where too many "optional extras" like background skills and ABP have only further skewed the power balance now we have reached Book 5 of an AP and PCs of that level already have overwhelming advantages

I quite like some of the variants in the GMG and am looking ahead to a 2E game. But I really don't want the same situation coming up again

From what I have seen most variants just increase options rather than raw power? Would people tend to agree? An exception would be dual classing I imagine...

I am currently playing through an Adventure Path that has reached level 13. My character has just died and is unable to be revived as the body was not recoverable. So I need to consider a replacement

He was originally a melee character with quite good defences. There is another character like this in the party - one who just one rounded a CR 14 monster with minimal resource investment. So I think trying to bring in another one could an exercise in frustration and constantly being outshone

However the bases are generally quite well covered in the group:

We have a Cleric who has loads of channels/healing and some very good buffs - Blessing of Fervour is amazing!

We have the battlefield control and de-buffing (along with some damage dealing potential from evocation bolstered by magic items) from another caster

And then the awesome damage dealing potential I mentioned before (and this character is pretty much equally effective from range as in melee)

Traps are also covered (but they are rarely the sole focus of a character)

So what should I add in? Does the group need more melee because even with one person throwing out massive numbers there is still only one of them and therefore in any scenario where there is more than one enemy there could be a problem?

And if so is there a way of achieving this without getting demoralised that I will never match the contribution of the other party member? Because I am not so sure

I can't spot an obvious niche that needs filling here so would appreciate any help

What deity / deities would be most fitting for a Vivisectionist to worship?
Or would the commitment to weird science suggest no real divine connection?

I would lean towards :

- Urgathoa : I would think they would prefer raising things as undead. But there is an AP module where Urgathoa worshipers create constructs from body parts that are not necessarily undead

- Norgorber : Connection with murder and other nefarious activities . Alchemists (although more the poison side) are a big thing

Does anyone have any opinions / alternate suggestions

I might soon need to run some encounters in a school / university setting

I am running an AP and using Roll20 fairly frequently and would rather not make it obvious which parts are homebrewed

Does anyone know of any pre-existing maps that could be co-opted for this

(I don't think Academy of Secrets seems quite right as Magic School seems like something rather different)

Thanks for any help

I am looking at pitching a Vivisectionist against my group as a villain

What sort of goes might both
- accompany him
- be in the “dungeon” (university)

in any such build up to this encounter? The group would probably be level 9 at a minimum

The school is a place for plants and animals so all kinds of weird things could be in there but they all seem more level appropriate for a lower level group

Necrocrafts and most notably flesh golems fit the theme but I was noting that flesh golems are too easy to significantly hinder for a group of that level (the slow under fire and cold)

There is an AP book where there are both class levelled flesh golems and weird unique ones but I couldn’t seem to find any construction rules for them

What about any associated grave diggers? Would there be a particular class that works well for them?

Thanks for any help

Yes I gathered weapons would work but the logic that allows them to work suggests things like kinetic blast, shocking grasp and magic missile should work. But these have fixed numbers of targets

So it does go along with my thoughts that the rules clash together a big weirdly

I mean in the case of a blast the amount of damage it does a mid to high levels would equate to the theoretical killing of multiple enemies in one hit

Say 100 HP troop, 40 damage, 20 people in it - in theory 8 people killed with one blast - which a blast cannot do normally - so why should it be able to just because they are an organised military unit. If anything it should be less effective. But exactly the same logic applies to a power attack greatsword strike for circa 30 points of damage

The rules seem strange but of course so is HP as an abstraction.

>

(The kinetic blast vs. swarms is actually a bit of a low blow for every single other class in the game that are restricted by swarms.

There should be a middle ground where most other classes are slightly better at fighting swarms at low levels and kineticists don't burst out laughing at them (I suppose alchemists also have few issues))

I have a few questions on the troop sub-type, mostly on targeting

It takes up a 20ft by 20ft square. So 16 squares. DO I understand correctly that they can be any 16 squares as long as they connect?

Targeting immunity:

"A troop is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate and multiple target spells such as haste), though it is affected by spells or effects that target an area or a nonspecific number of creatures (such as fireball or mass hold monster)."

This confuses me as Mass Hold Monster does specify a number of creatures : one or more creatures no two of which can be more than 30ft apart

Or is the point there isn't a maximum number to this?

What about something like kinetic blast: "a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet."

So I read this as not really working. But using kinetic blade turns it into a weapon so should function like anyone else attacking in combat?

But officially a shot with a bow or strike with a sword has a single target? So why would these work?

It is all quite confusing

Hi everyone. I am currently running and adventure path for a group of 4 and we are near the end of Book 2.

The problem that seems to be arising is that 2 players have made characters heavily on the themes of the AP and the other two are far more focused on highly optimizing their characters.

Now most APs seem to be written to challenge the former but not the latter.

My concern is:

- If I raise the power level the first two will struggle and probably lose their characters

- If I keep it mostly as written the latter two will dominate to such an extent that the first two will feel obsolete and risk getting bored

Is there a solution here?
And lets just say that trying to talk the more optimization focused character out of that approach is a complete non starter

Has anyone else had this come up?