Our Kingmaker campaign terminated this month, after one year and a half of battles, kingdom sessions, intrigues and fun. We are moving on towards Carrion Crown (we rotate as GM after every adventure).
Nyrissa won:
After the defeat of the Jabberwock, the PCs had bad luck against the prismatic sprays of the Ankous: half of the party had been petrified, the other half teleported away. When faced with the choice of giving back Briar in exchange of their stone friends, the two survivors refused the offer, being their friends not so important, leaving Nyrissa the control over the Stolen Lands.
My thoughts, confessions and considerations about the entire campaign - aka what I did get right, what I did wrong, considering my players and their responses.
1 - Stolen Lands: One of my favourite books, with a great villain and a good hook for the campaign.
Ask your players to give their character noble intents as motivations for this path. This is because the path is very long, very dispersive, and in many situations you may feel like fighting in first line for the people (or even non human creatures) in these lands may not be worth the effort, especially if you should defend the weakest side in the conflict. Being altruist is important, even in this path. My players had some internal conflicts when it came to take generous decisions and when the most 'noble' half of the party remained trapped in the House at the Edge of Time, the other half could not lead the mission anymore.
Most (if not all) of the Brevoy background is lost during the path. If you like it and if your players want to connect with it you will have to create some sort of subquest or other stories to keep it alive.
Don't make them rush against the Stag Lord: they'll die. Remember them their primary goal is to explore the land, the bandits should be a growing presence. The typical problem with players used to railroad campaigns is that they will rush against the first enemy they will hear of.
Rolling random encounters is boring. Create some good encounters with good terrain features in advance and make them happen as you like. Make the encounter worth of it, create clear and evident substories that can lead to further encounters. Don't be afraid to create some invisible railroads: sandbox doesn't mean out of control.
Following suggestions from this forum (I don't remember where I read it) I downloaded all the maps of the lands (sorry, not sure if I can really do it), I edited them in a single big map (170 x 60 cm), I printed it and I plasticized it. I covered it with little paper hexes, and we hanged it on the wall, taking off the hexes and showing the map during the exploration. It was great!
2 - Rivers Run Red: One of the worst books of the saga, forum material can make a difference.
Kingdom rules work pretty well in this book. We used Ultimate Campaign rules, along with some of the Ultimate Rulership (Legendary Games) rules in the later stages of the game. Kingdom building works better if you have at least one player who is interested in the intense bookkeeping required. I suggest to use this excellent excel grid as soon as you can. Here you can find some good material for this part, especially if you want to keep Brevoy alive.
Again, don't be too fussy with exploration. You will probably be tired of it at the end of the second book, so don't be obsessed with exploration time and tables, go easy on it and give your players opportunities to explore the boring parts of the map through other ways (exploration edicts, informations by NPC, maps found around).
Dudemeister created this beautiful expansion for this book that really enhances the adventure. Give it a look.
3 - The Varnhold Vanishing: Solid book, Vordakai is a great enemy and his dungeon is very cool.
I suggest you to delay the meeting with Vordakai as much as you can, to avoid the “rush against the enemy” problem mentioned earlier. Dudemeister got this covered too.
4 - Blood for Blood: Nice book, Fort Drelev offers a lot of fun.
You should revive the fey background at this point. Make it clear something is happening to the area, the First World presence should be more violent but not so dangerous to require immediate action: a weird presence, just to remember them the Stolen Lands are not common wilderness. Otherwise, Nyrissa may look out of place at the end of the adventure. Faerie Mysteries by Legendary Games is a good addition to the game.
Kingdom rules gave me a headache at this time. Maybe because my players power played their kingdom, there was no Kingdom check they could fail, their Kingdom was extremely rich and their armies were unbeatable. There was nothing they could not do (by rules), no event could shake their reign (by rules). This made all the Kingdom subsystem useless for roleplaying purpose: if I wanted to challenge their kingdom I had to do it in a non-standard way, which could make all their work to raise kingdom statistics useless or, worse, they could feel cheated because the other kingdoms did not work according to those rules that made them clearly superior. My suggestion is to dump kingdom rules by this time, if you fear this situation may cause you problems. Explore Kingdom rules in the second and third book when they are still fun to play, and ignore them by now; or make Kingdom sessions more occasional (i.e. once every 6 months to decide the kingdom course); decide with your players what is important for their kingdom and give them missions and quests to reach that specific kingdom goal; you can even create simplified kingdom rules, but don’t get stuck in the mud of the classic rules when the kingdom becomes too big.
5 - War of the River Kings: My favourite book. Irovetti was such a badass.
Jason Nelson really did a great work here, providing even his own original work to anybody who asks him.
I liked my tournament so much I want to share it: In my game I moved Whitehorse Abbey close to the tournament, the midnight joust took place in the afternoon, while at midnight I placed the Midnight Toast (like in James version). When the PGs have been invited, Irovetti asked them to bring a bottle of their finest wine, as tradition: the winner’s bottle would be poured in the barrels destined to the nobility at midnight toast. Since the players won the tournament they felt very bad when they heard rumors about Gaetane (professional poisoner) meeting with Irovetti and heading to the nearby Abbey: was Irovetti framing them in a conjure against the other River Kingdoms? They run to the abbey, fought against Gaetane but they could not solve the mystery of the Abbey nor understand Irovetti’s plan. Back at the tournament, they awaited the Midnight Toast with great fear, just to realize after midnight that Irovetti was playing with them all the time, keeping them busy while his armies attacked.
Most of the army battles will be played in this book. Ultimate Battle by Legendary Games can be a nice addition. This kind of battles can be a little long and may not involve all the players. On the other hand, even if very complex, battles may be a little boring. When I added some PCs vs. NPCs tactical fights during the main battle to achieve goals and change the outcome of the battle I always had more involvement and fun.
6 - Sound of a Thousand Screams: A real hack and slash adventure. My players didn’t like this part and preferred to stop it instead of keep fighting when they have been defeated (even if not killed); this part contains most of my regrets for them to abandon the adventure and my considerations may not apply to you.
When my players understood their Kingdom was falling apart due to the First World invasion, they almost lost interest in their kingdom. I felt bad about it because I could not make them love the Stolen Lands and their inhabitants enough to defend them, nor hate Nyrissa enough to defeat her, even after kidnapping the Ranger’s son. Make them realize Nyrissa was behind almost everything bad happened to their Kingdom as soon as possible and that she already hurt them before.
At the beginning of the book I warned them I would have played seriously. In the past I held back some enemies if they were too strong, but then it was time to wear off the gloves and see who would have ruled the Stolen Lands. This was OK until they fought in the glades, but they suffered a lot when they had to fight more than one enemy. Kingmaker is famous for 1/day encounters and this may cause your party to think they are unbeatable, taking risky decisions and going nova as soon as they can. CR may be a little misleading, so keep this in mind and try to understand that the party may arrive at the House at the Edge of Time without a good action economy experience. They were astonished by the number of enemies in this place.
Remember them they are not in mission for themselves but for a greater cause. If this has no effect, remember them the people they left home and that may die if they lose. Should their kingdom fade, Nyrissa must not win or the consequences may be even worse than the loss of the Stolen Lands.
I don’t know if I wrote this for you or for me to read, the end of an Adventure Path is always emotional to me. I was sad they didn’t care to save the Stolen Lands at last; but maybe I am a little egoist, fun is the only important thing and if an adventure doesn’t provide enough entertainment it’s OK to stop it. I had a lot of help on this board when I started and I hope I can give back some of the matured experience with this post.
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Crimeo wrote:
But there is (trolls for example), and you know that.
You are right, it's better if I merge my previous posts:
Prismatic Spray Poison: The text states there is a secondary effect with Con damages, but there is no way (neither failing nor succeeding the initial saving throw) to suffer from this condition. The only exceptions are some corner cases (eg. trolls with regeneration) which may suffer from the secondary effect after failing the first save. This looks far away from what the developers had in mind when they wrote the spell for 3.5 rules. Should the poison of Prismatic Spray need a rewrite according to Pathfinder poison rules, or should we consider this phenomenon as intended?
Its possible we just found some old stock stashed somewhere in the warehouse and didn't realize the issue. I've passed your comment along to our warehouse to investigate further and customer service will be emailing you shortly to resolve this for you.
Thank you Sara, customer service contacted me and already shipped a replacement. I overlooked it since it was a minor issue, but this is a super service!
I want to share my RRR finale here, since so much of our story developed from this enhancement.
Spoiler:
Hargulka is dead, using the strategy that I explained in the post above, even if I'm a bit unsatisfied by it because it sounded a bit artificial.
Kobolds have been destroyed in combat. Chief Soothscale, political refugee, has been killed during the owlbear attack. Mikmek is in volountary exile, maybe he will come back later somewhen during the adventure.
Lizardfolk have been exterminated by PCs, even the last lizardfolk slaves.
Best Revelation Character: Stisshak. He led two population to death, he abandoned the trolls, and now he is frequenting PCs, attracted by their malice. Moreover, inspired by Centaure Graveyard Trust Score, I started an experiment, tracking Stisshak trust score, giving PCs evil quests, to see where they push before understanding what real evil is.
And, since I loved Centaur Graveyard Trust Score so much, I created various political and religious parties, each one with its own trust score and different goals. Players are struggling to make them happy, trying to obtain benefits from them. If the experiment goes well I will write a thread on it. Wait for more on Centaur Graveyard thread, I'm sure the story will develop in something unexpected.
I thought about it and here is what i got in mind.
Hargulka's move:
Quote:
Finally PCs faced Hargulka's army… and they lost!
[…]
First PCs lost an army against a tiny army of trolls. The two armies killed each other, but PCs could win the battle by killing the remaining trolls on the battlefield. Then, in front of Hargulka's village, their defeat. A memorable defeat with hundreds of deaths. Now they have to decide what to do next: they have no more armies, they have to partially rebuild a reign shattered by war, and with about 50 trolls lurking in the south. I'm sure they will think up something, while I have Christmas holidays to decide Hargulka's next step. There are many elements to use: an almost destroyed lizardfolk village and their fugitive spirit, angry trolls, rescued hostages, etc.
Hargulka's goal remains the same: expel humans from the greenbelt, steal their city, find food. He will never attack the city directly with his army, it's too dangerous and he is too weak. He prefers to attract PCs' army outside and wait for the owlbear to do the dirty work. Maybe his tactics are not perfect, but this is good, since he is not so intelligent.
I divided events to make them coincide with kingdom events, replacing them, month after month. They are increasingly serious events, which should spur the players to action. First phase coincides with the first phase after the PCs' defeat.
Phase 1: the Will-o'-wisp
After the battle, trolls fed with human corpses in front of their lair, this can satisfy them for a little time. Hargulka knows PCs are weaker now, but he doesn't know if they have further armies in the city. Lizardfolk's will-o'-wisp, escaped from the village [players don't know what happened there, and they don't even know about the will-o'-wisp, just about a mysterious spirit], contacts him and he proposes him to make remaining lizardfolk slaves so he can replace lost slaves. At the end of the phase Hargulka, with the help of the Will-o'-wisp, convinced lizardfolk to work for him: this is the only way, according to Stisshak, lizardfolk can recover from the war and save their king [captured by PCs]. If PCs visit the hex, they find the lizardfolk village desert, the hex teems with trolls that settled here in a place strategically advantageous (+2 DV), fortified with lizardfolk work.
Phase 2: Guerrilla
The army of 50 trolls, guided by Hargulka, moves to the hex next to the southernmost hex of the PCs' kingdom [Which is right next to Lizardfolks village, on the hooktongue lake] (Loyalty check to spot their position). A small contingent, half a dozen trolls, is sent to loot the hex on the right. Will-o'-wisp warns the trolls (he can fly really fast) if PCs or an army is coming, so the contingent can withdraw among their companions and then together towards Hargulka's lair. Their hope is to attract the PCs' army deep in the forest, in their lair preferably, where they can easily be defeated, and let the owlbear do its work.
Trolls contingent behave like a Monster Attack event (+4 Unrest if not resolved). Plus, a Loyalty check is needed to avoid a +2 Unrest due to the fear of the troll army.
If PCs send an army, trolls withdraw. If PCs go alone [my players think they can beat an entire army, recently] troll explorers tend an ambush in a fishery, to allow the army to get closer and ambush the PCs from the hills.
Phase 3: Kobolds' spirit
The will-o'-wisp replicates his strategy used with the lizardfolk: he acts as an ancient spirit of a dragon, the legendary Druma, and incites kobolds to rebellion, to take back their dignity [they are friends with the PCs]. A fight among kobolds arises, Chief Sootscale is imprisoned with his allies, while the rebels, considering him responsible for Druma's reproach, try to gather the kobolds under a single flag to create an army.
The event is considered as a Monster Attack, in fact some men working in the mine have lost their lives. Meanwhile, trolls continue their tactics, depending on the previous event evolution.
Saving the Chief
The same night PCs know about kobolds situation, Mikmek sneaks into the castle to wake them up. He tells them about what happened with Druma and Chief's misfortune, and how he escaped. He asks for help to avoid further deaths for his people. He says Varran, trap expert and rebels' chief, decided to kill Chief Soothscale if PCs don't pay a 5 BP ransom within the month.
Sneaking in to save the Chief is the best way to save him, if they don't want to pay the ransom. The main entrance is barricaded, and is continuously surveilled, secondary entrance is surveilled by a couple of distracted kobolds. The Chief is imprisoned in a new area, beyond Y5, which expands parallel to the long left corridor. Saving the Chief or paying the ransom doesn't make the Unrest increase.
Phase 4: degeneration
If PCs have successfully saved Chief Soothscale and deposed Varran, Druma loses his grasps on kobolds. If Varran keeps leading the kobolds, and the ransom has not been paid, Chief Soothscale has been put under trial and executed on the last day of the month, under Druma's suggestion. Plus, Varran prepares an army (see Ultimate Campaign example army) at the service of Hargulka. This army settles in the hex, and it works as a Monster Attack event. Trolls keep their strategy until they can plan a coordinated attack with the help of the kobolds.
First of all: thank you Dudemeister; this adventure enhancement helped me a lot to give a soul to Hargulka, the trolls and all the southern green belt, plus beating down a little my Arrogant Evil (new alignment for them) PCs, so strong that they have no rival in a fight (they actually embraced the idea of killing an entire army of trolls with their hands).
First PCs lost an army against a tiny army of trolls. The two armies killed each other, but PCs could win the battle by killing the remaining trolls on the battlefield. Then, in front of Hargulka's village, their defeat. A memorable defeat with hundreds of deaths. Now they have to decide what to do next: they have no more armies, they have to partially rebuild a reign shattered by war, and with about 50 trolls lurking in the south. I'm sure they will think up something, while I have Christmas holidays to decide Hargulka's next step. There are many elements to use: an almost destroyed lizardfolk village and their fugitive spirit, angry trolls, rescued hostages, etc.
This is my experience, until now, I wanted to share with you. I hope to share more about this module and the following ones. Meanwhile, any ideas about Hargulka's plans are welcome!
As an aside, I'd love to hear what plots you're cooking up using these characters. The malbranche haven't gotten a ton of play yet and I'm sure lots of folks here would like to hear what you have in store for them.
Also, I was in Lucca a few years back with the crew from Wyrd Edizioni and was shocked how much folks there were digging Council of Thieves. I've been eager to get back to Cheliax, Hell, and some strong political adventuring ever since, so be sure to let me know what you'd think of more in that same vein.
Here in Italy we can translate just few of the AP written by Paizo, so these adventures become more popular than untranslated ones :-). Recently our publishing house, Giochi Uniti, published a hardcover version of Kingmaker so many people are playing that right now.
In these posts I'm trying to create a political subplot involving devils that would lead my players till 20th level in Kingmaker. I recently bought Princes of Darkness and it was fundamental for it, and I'm still seeking a way to involve Malebranche — even if I depict them really powerful, so I have difficulties in finding the right place for them.
Since I'm planning my Kingmaker campaign I could not resist to answer all those questions raised by KM background events: the nature of Choral, Skywatch, Golushkin, the Vanishing and the epic ending of the AP had to be necessarily linked to each other, I always knew it, but I could not see the complete picture; until I finally got something cool to work with. I noticed somebody in the forum had similar ideas, but I tried to add new stuff and combine them in something more complex. This is still a first draft, I have to work with it, so your ideas, advice and critiques are welcome.
WARNING! GMs only! — This is a big NO-NO for my players:
Skywatch: a Refuge for Kings
Skywatch is an ancient Cyclopes' observatory (credits). A place of big arcane power, it was used by wizards and sorcerers of Koloran empire to study the deepest secrets of universe but it also had another function: it could be used as "bunker" in case of emergency by Cyclops sovereigns. It was a little, powerful and well defensible stronghold, plus it could be used as a way to escape from a catastrophic event and hide its inhabitants in stasis (credits) for a prolonged period of time. Almost destroyed by Choral's dragons during Brevoy conquest, the Conqueror soon understood it was more than a mere ruin and its powers could still be useful.
Choral's Contract
Choral was not a dragon or a famous conqueror when he was in Iobaria. He was more interested in diabolatry as a mean to satisfy his thirst for power. He eagerly studied his so prolific yet fragmented neighbors, and he knew that a strong power could submit Brevoy to his will [Better motivation yet to be defined, but it's quite secondary]. After many years of research he finally summoned a devil who could fulfill his wishes:
an army;
an invincible power to submit enemies;
a long reign for his kin.
The devil accepted. An army, two red dragons and 200 years of reign in exchange of every royal soul he would have generated. Choral signed. Brevoy was soon conquered.
Years passed quickly and Choral started worrying for his kin: maybe he made a mistake and started thinking to a way to escape the contract. He discovered that Skywatch had an ancient power that could help him; maybe he would have not found a way to escape the devil in time, nor his descendants, but he could secure them until some noble and fearless hero would have saved their souls or the contract would have been destroyed. It was a desperate move that could need thousands of years to succeed, but it was better than eternal damnation. Brevoy's best arcanists were charged to make Skywatch work again and after many years, right before Brevoy's bicentenary, a contingency was set in the Cyclopes' stronghold: in case the contract was still active, a second before the 200th year of reign the rogarvian family would have been secured in Skywatch with all its inhabitants. And so it happened.
But Rogarvians didn't know everything about their refuge: Skywatch was meant to host any real king ruling in the ancient cyclopes' lands.
Don't Play With the Devil
Rogarvian strategy worked, their souls were safe away from devils' claws. But it's not easy to fool the Hell. Infernal reply was fast and strong: the Devil who signed the contract is powerful [maybe a pit fiend] and still wants those royal souls. He also knows that Skywatch can still be opened and all he needs is a real king from the surrounding lands. But to be qualified at opening Skywatch a king must have some qualities:
He must reign in the old Cyclopes’ territories;
He must be feared and loved [I was thinking to link these qualities to kingdom’s stats];
He must bear the power of Cyclopes [maybe the oculus? These qualities are prone to changes btw].
Surtova, as new king, does not meet most prerequisites since many people in his reign consider him as an usurper. Devil’s plan requires time but it’s simple: make Surtova a stronger king and make him open the gates of Skywatch.
The first step is to infiltrate in noble families of Brevoy. Minor devils started influencing land’s nobles through their counselors to raise tension and throw the land in a war that Surtova would easily win, so that their power would be undisputed. Many political events in the years succeeding the Vanishing were secretly influenced by devils and the war with Rostland seems to be inevitable.
After almost ten ten years of machinations devils exacerbate their grip over Brevoy. Some Apostate Devils (Book of the Damned Vol. 1) are sent in Rostland and in New Stetven to proselytize and conduct people in the path of atheism. These group of people assemble in a guild and call themselves the “Free Thinkers” [name subject to changes]. Their goal: weaken Abadar faith to make it easier to control the fate of the population and prepare people for an eventual Asmodeus church. Even if the penetration of the guild is slow and limited to unsatisfied segments of population, Devil’s plans are starting to be more ambitious and Brevoy could become the next Infernal Kingdom after Cheliax. Dwarves lords understand that something is poisoning Brevoy, but they just live in a small town with little power and if they reveal their fears they could be easily killed. Dwarves choose their path and isolate from the rest of Brevoy: during the 10th winter after the Vanishing they close Golushkin to avoid infernal contamination [this part has not been very well described in the AP, and I initially misunderstood it: dwarves are isolated during the Vanishing, not 10 years later, but I actually prefer this version].
Things Get Complicated
The Devil did not plan that Swordlords would have sent people in the south to create minor kingdoms, but this event should not be a problem for him. Instead he foresaw an opportunity when the ancient tomb of Vordakai was discovered since it could help him find the needed Cyclopes’ power [maybe he had a role in the awakening of Vordakai himself]. When PCs are ready to create their kingdom and their first city, the Free Thinkers offer their help, as well as other churches and political factions, so that PCs can collect their first BP (credits).
This is probably the part I like the most. I really liked Erik’s Venture Capital idea for KM and Free Thinkers may play a funny role. In my plan they will be very reasonable and modern people, they will offer very good resources for much less than other factions, and they will push towards the building of immoral buildings like brothels, avoiding churches and spreading of other faiths, gaining more and more power in the newborn and malleable kingdom. If I know my players they will soon become good friends, and this is going to be very interesting at the end of the path.
Later on, when PCs defeat Vordakai and take the oculus, devils’ strategy becomes more a wait-and-see policy, because now they have two possible kings for their scope. They remains silent during the rest of the path [minor help, hints and assistance may be given especially through Free Thinkers], until, after the defeat of Nyrissa, PCs become true kings, loved, respected and powerful. They have all the prerequisites to open Skywatch and the Devil makes his move.
The True Kings
An infernal agent [a long-time lost brother of one of the PCs in my game] is sent to the PCs seeking for help: he claims that Skywatch hides something terrible that could lead to the destruction of Brevoy and surrounding lands [details to be added] and nobody can avoid it except for the PCs. He wants them to go north with him and convince them to open Skywatch. In the meanwhile, dwarves find the courage to talk with the PCs: their spies watched over the evolving kingdom, and PCs' recent heroic actions convinced them that maybe they could defeat the evil in Brevoy. A message is sento to PCs’ capital: it’s a trap! [Maybe they already left for Skywatch, however surely somebody could deliver the message].
The evolution of events is open to many interpretations, and much depends on PCs’ alignment. They should feel surprised and even screwed (depending on the penetration of Free Thinkers in the kingdom) and they could react in different ways. I tried to foresee the main of them:
PCs want to eradicate the evil in their kingdom: a difficult process of eradication of the Free Thinkers begins, and probably a war with Brevoy. Free Thinkers are deeply rooted in New Stetven but Restov resists, so PCs have allies.
PCs are good with devils in their kingdom but they don’t want to open Skywatch: Brevoy declares war. See above.
PCs help the Devil and open Skywatch: congratulations for creating the second Infernal Kingdom of Golarion. Btw, Brevoy attacks Restov but not the PCs.
Skywatch opening: if PCs open Skywatch after defeating the Devil they will set Rogarvians free. They will take back control over Brevoy and they will be infinitely thankful to the PCs, creating a strong alliance. If they choose not to open it they have the option to take Brevoy (not an easy task) or maybe kill Rogarvian family.
If you are still reading, thank you. As you may have understood this is not an easy scenario to develop, there are many variables, many choices that could change final events, without clear distinction between good and evil. If I will add or change anything I will let you know in the following posts. If you like it or have any suggestions, please write it, I’ll appreciate it.
Bonus: And the Final Boss?
It could be anybody. Some ideas I’m working with:
an overpowered Pit Fiend, or another devil;
a devil-bound Surtova;
a Choral red dragon summoned by the devil who owns his soul.
I still have to start kingmaker, a campaign that I consider compelling and fascinating, but your posts completely twisted my ideas on the path. I eagerly read them and they gave me great inspiration for my adventure. As soon as I read about a clockwork kingdom I had a view of how my Pitax will be.
Thank you for sharing your ideas, I am impatient to read the rest.
And congratulations to your sister, uncle dudemeister.
