FireflyArchon's page

I love it when one of my threads keeps going, while remaining on topic all the while.

It's a good thread.

I agree with James Maissen( or what my very loose perusal has lead me to believe he thinks).

Whether hips takes a standard action to activate or not is moot. The ability is not limited by a duration. Thus even if you had to activate it, you would only ever have to activate it once. After that, the way your stealth functions is changed.

Are we saying that paladins have to activate aura of courage or divine grace?

Aura of Courage is active while the Paladin is conscious but fails should the Paladin fall unconscious or die. Divine Grace applies to all savings throws and so is always active.

I dissemble.

I thank you and James for helping me look at HiPS from another angle. I concede that it doesn't require an action to activate. I remain adamant on the condition for it to function in that the character must be within 10 feet of dim light.

Once outside the stated proximity to dim light, the character loses the ability to use Stealth while being observed and requires cover or concealment to use Stealth against most creatures.

Do you disagree?

Still going. Nothing outlasts a rules argument.

Is there any other kind of argument worth pursuing?

FireflyArchon wrote:

First, HiPS for the Shadowdancer (and Assassin) is a Supernatural ability. This requires a standard action to use unless the description states otherwise. It doesn't in this case. HiPS is an Extraordinary ability for the Ranger though and is thus a free action. Go Ranger!

Umm no.

If you want to try to rule it that way then the response is that the shadowdancer 'activates' his hide in plain sight ability at the start of the day. He now has the ability to use stealth to become unobserved when within 10' of dim light.

Now to use stealth will be part of moving (5' step or normal move action), but there is not a supernatural stealth going on here that is needing to be activated.

Likewise if the shadowdancer were unable to move, he could not elect to have shadows wrap around him/her and become unseen. His ability is constantly on but it requires him to use stealth and there are requirements for that... some of which are obviated by his ability, but not all (he has to roll the skill, has to move, becomes seen when he attacks, is foiled by certain special senses, etc).

-James

Thanks for the response, James!

It sounds as if you are advocating that HiPS is a free action.

What I'm saying is that HiPS for the Assassin and Shadowdancer is a supernatural ability per the description. PFRPG pg. 186 states that supernatural abilities are a standard action unless defined otherwise by the description.

"Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Stealth skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow."

I didn't state and wouldn't agree that HiPS modifies the Stealth skill other than allowing an exception to the restrictions on using Stealth while being observed and requiring cover/concealment in most cases.

How to deal with a Shadowdancer with Hide in Plain Sight? It doesn't seem that this question was answered simply in this post. I appologize if it was.

Hide in Plain Sight is the supernatural ability to cloak oneself in nearby (within 10') dim light while being observed, negating the requirement for cover or concealment.

First, HiPS for the Shadowdancer (and Assassin) is a Supernatural ability. This requires a standard action to use unless the description states otherwise. It doesn't in this case. HiPS is an Extraordinary ability for the Ranger though and is thus a free action. Go Ranger!

Darkvision and low-light vision affect the perception of dim light in different ways than those with normal vision.

Example: A human, an elf and a half-orc are standing in a dark room. The human hold a normal torch that illuminates an area of 20' around him with an additional area of dim light beyond that to diameter of 40'.

A Shadowdancer stands 10 feet from the trio, easily within 10' of that are of dim light outside the area of normal light. Using Hide in Plain Sight as a standard action, the Shadowdancer wraps himself in shadow and makes a Stealth check. The human makes a Perception check against the Stealth check while the check automatically fails against the elf and half-orc.

Why? Because to the elf the torch illuminates an area of 40' which places the Shadowdancer 30' from the area of dim light negating the ability. The half-orc with darkvision sees normally in an area of 60' which places the Shadowdancer 50' from an are of normal darkness (skipping over the 40' of dim light entirely).

A Shadowdancer cannot use Hide in Plain Sight, move and attack unless somehow able to take two standard actions and a move action in a single round.

If there is a flaw in my reasoning or additional information crucial to this topic, please advise.

Goblins are the perfect pest, if you get mymeaning. They are capable of challenging the skill of lower level characters and the patience of the higher level as well. Swarmfighting is a must! Need a mug tipped over to start a bar fight? Blame the gobbo! Where's my faithful riding dog? Around the block under the gobbo! Now where did I leave that epic level gobbo. . .