Stumbled across this old thread through a series of strange google searches distantly related to each other, and I'm sure the specific cases have long since passed, but I figured I'd raise this thing from the dead with some attempted green-GMing logic for future peoples.
The Broken condition itself states that an item is considered broken when it has taken damage in excess of half its total hit points. That would lead me, at first, to the assumption that Broken NORMALLY requires an item to have (1/2 - 1) of its HP in order to qualify.
Using Omikapsi's example, Fortified Armor Training states that an item becomes Broken when utilizing the feat's effects. It does not claim that the item takes damage, just that it receives the condition. That leads to two assumptions: either it simply gains the condition, or (given the previous information) it is considered to be automatically dealt enough damage to have gained the condition.
Foce gave a difference example.
Sacrificial Shield (Ex): Once per round when you would normally be hit by a weapon attack, you can use your shield to block the attack. You must be using a shield in order to use this ability. Subtract your shield's hardness and hit points from the damage of the attack and apply the remaining damage to your hit points. If the shield takes enough damage to destroy it, it's destroyed. Otherwise, it gains the broken condition, even if the damage was not enough to give it the broken condition under other circumstances. You can expend one use of mythic power when using this ability to negate any damage dealt to the shield, though you still take any damage that exceeds its hardness and hit points. You can choose to negate the damage after the damage is rolled.
Sacrificial Shield SPECIFICALLY states that an item gains the Broken condition even if it wasn't dealt enough damage to normally do so. This leads me to believe that the Broken condition is independent of damage dealt.
Using Sacrificial Shield as a clarification, I would assume that the description given under the Broken condition is considered the normal means of achieving the condition, but not the requirement. The Broken condition may be applied independently of damage to the item, applying all of its effects.
This would lead me to the conclusion that:
Obviously an official word or FAQ would be nice, but that's how I would work through it!
TL;DR SUMMARY AT THE BOTTOM
So after someone in my online group linked a chart that organizes the new Unchained action economy into sections for easier understanding, questions started popping up. First off, Full-Attack actions no longer exist. I scoured for any information on this, and came to the conclusion that since everyone can now make 3 attacks starting from level 1, it's only the late game martial classes that are affected.
And yet, that's when things got complicated and confusing. I tried finding clarification on this by searching around, but didn't have any luck in finding corrections.
Unchained Monks came up.
Alright. There's no full-attack action anymore. Which brought up two variations in our discussions. Either:- Unchained Flurry is now a 3-act action, and can only function if you spend 3-act points to do it, or
- Unchained Flurry now functions similar to TWF (minus the off-hand damage/attack changes), which states:
...meaning that if use flurry on one attack act, you get two rolls, and if you use flurry on two attack acts (after level 11), you get 4 rolls.
Ok, so, assuming the second variation is correct when comparing it with that block, and the monk being level 11 or higher:
But hold on. Unleashed Monks are now Full BAB. However, if everyone gets three attacks regardless of BAB, that means that the benefit is just a BAB progression of 20-15-10, rather than 15-10-5?
1.) BAB determines attack bonus only, and no longer affects number of attacks in a round.
Is that correct? I believe the confusion is coming from old mechanics and old wordage being used, and in the case of the "clarification" from the book referencing the old Flurry rather than the new one.
Sorry about the slow response. Saw that earlier, but forgot to respond til now. The Zhentarim Spy I believe had an ability that was close to what I was thinking, but still not quite it. I can't confirm now since the site seems to be temporarily down, however.
I appreciate the help! Still not finding what I was looking for, but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind for another time. It's one of those times where you're 100% sure you saw it, but no matter what you do you can't dig it up again, you know? I'm sure I'll stumble across it again at some point when I'm not thinking about it. Or I'm just insane and imagining things, in which case I might just have to homebrew it for an NPC!
I uh... I had a gnoll barbarian focused in that sort of thing specifically. Combined with a few other things and some house rulings, she used full sized doors as shields, threw anything she could find at people, and used grappled enemies themselves as weapons against other enemies. Two-handed goblin hammer, anyone?
Combat Expertise is my annoyance. So many times I've stumbled across an interesting combination and then went "...oh. Nevermind then I guess."
Our group has an odd dynamic. We have two (and soon to be three) different campaign "universes" going at once, currently set up on Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. Each one has different characters, as well as slightly different people. There's a few of us that are around for all three, but there's a lot of switching around based on how friendly life decides to be. So while the group's been together a while and plays a decent amount, individual settings don't often get far.
I don't think we've ever made it past early teens. Usually we end up with too much going on and with two many holes punched in the campaign, we have to let it go. Right now we're running Emerald Spire on our Wednesdays, which seems like it's a fast track to early-mid teens, so we might actually break that roof for once. Fingers crossed! We have Runelords going on for Fridays, and then may be starting up our old Kingmaker campaign again on Saturdays. So I guess we're looking at one fast campaign, one sorta medium, and one long term?
Secret Wizard wrote:
It's a mythic path: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/mythic/mythic-heroes/mythic-paths---paizo-inc/trick ster
That's what I thought too earlier this morning, but I didn't see it there either. The character has No One of Consequence and Improbable Prestidigitation already. You saying that made me paranoid so I went and checked again just now, and maybe it's because I'm frustrated, but I'm still not seeing what I was thinking there either? I'm remembering it so distinctly, just not the name. I remember thinking at the time that it was a cool idea, not I was limited on slots for things to take, and it didn't really fit their personality, so I passed on it. It's driving me insane!
Hoping it's ok to toss this here, I didn't really think it fit under the Rules section. Yesterday at some point while doing a random character build (which happens frequently, totally addicted to random concept builds and sometimes using them as NPCs), I came across a feat or a rogue talent or some class feature or mythic ability or SOMETHING that I can no longer find despite my frenzied digging.
It allowed the character to have, I believe, up to 10 well established identities/personas/aliases that, if someone were to look into them, would show up as actual different people under mild scrutiny.
It wasn't very fitting for the character I was working on at that moment so I passed over it, but it occurred to me later that it fit ANOTHER character that had be semi-abandoned a while back. Of course, despite trying to trace my steps yesterday as well as google search every combination of phrases I can think of, I can't seem to find it.
Anyone out there know what I'm talking about? I'm starting to think I'm just imagining things. It's like this thing has a "No One of Consequence" effect going on and my will's too low <_<