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The Raven Black wrote:
Way I read it, level 1 Summon Fey gives access to the level-1 creatures. Level 2 Summon Fey gives access to level-1, level 0 and level 1 creatures.

Would level 1 spell give access to level 0 creature as 0 is 1 below the spell level?


Sorry to be dense but I’m having trouble understanding which creatures I can cast. The Nethys page on summon fey https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=322 lists all creatures. Some are level -1 or level 0 (how can a creature be negative level). Am I correct in thinking a Level 1 spell will be able to cast any creature with -1/0 level?


Id be interested to know peoples thoughts of how useful summon fey is during actual gameplay. I love the flavour and idea of a spell that can be flexible in different situations but is it ACTUALLY useful, particularly at lower levels?

All the options for low level creatures are quite underwhelming: you can use them to make an impression on various creatures sure, or cast an unluck aura.. But attacks with them will be ineffective due yo their strength modifier, and using their spells will involve using a spell slot above their level. Is this worth it? Is the spell worth a coveted signature spell slot?

I really want to use this spell but atm can’t imagine when using my whole turn snd a spell slot to summon something will feel like a good move.


The title kinda says it all. KCC allows any failed recall knowledge check using one of two skills to be retried using the other skill.

For a bard with bardic knowledge they could chose bardic knowledge and occultism as their two skills. At level 4, when KCC can be taken, this allows player to recall knowledge on ANY subject (with -2 difficulty to DC) and on a fail then retry with occultism which could be expert by then. This suddenly gives a power level a normal bard has to wait until Lv15 when they can upgrade Bardic Lore to expert for the cost of a single skill feat.

This just seems ridiculously OP. What do people think?


I’m building a polymath bard and am interested in the flexibility that the spell book offers. However it seems, looking at DCs for learning spells, it will always be quite hard and will result in a lot of failures. What are peoples experience with this and how would you improve sizes rates? Pumping INT and Occultism skill is the obvious routes but is this enough on its own? If not what else can I do? Or should I not worry about it and just accept that failure will happen often?

Also thinking with focus on INT and Occultism adopting the enigma muse as well might bring sone good synergies. Any suggestions for this build path?


Does anyone have any experience building a bard with all three muses (through multifarious muse)? I know it might be a bit unfocused but they all bring such cool stuff to the table. Are the initial abilities strong enough to make up for losing out on higher level feats?


HumbleGamer wrote:
...

Thanks for such a detailed reply. It was really helpful info. Just one question: I’ve read a few places that occultism interacts is a good one to develop because it influences quite a few bardic feats. The only one I’m aware of is the interaction with levelling up bardic lore. What else is beneficial about this.?

Also isn’t using skill increases on occultism a waste as bards get a boost (at around level 7 i think). It it simply a case of getting it online earlier?


Squiggit wrote:

Trained skills lose relevance for 'on level' tasks, but remain a useful consideration for tasks that aren't level-based, which should still be fairly common in most campaigns.

IME, combat actions tend to be the ones that rely the most on keeping your proficiency up, but outside of that there's a greater degree of flexibility. Trained athletics for dealing with common hazards, trained diplomacy for interacting with people around a town, that kind of thing.

Performace, again just from my experience, does kind of feel a little bit like an odd-skill out, compared to other skills.

In this light then how do you feel about bardic knowledge. Just trying to get a feel for how useful it we I’ll be having never done a AP before


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gesalt wrote:

The system will punish you for not boosting your saves at every opportunity. The only realistic stat build a bard has is cha/dex/con/wis. Also, given that any skill you don't take to legendary is effectively worthless, bardic lore is among the least useful things in the game. If you want to be the all-in-one knowledge guy, Thaumaturge is your only real option.

The reason everyone says maestro is the best is because of how impactful buffs and debuffs can be. Lingering dirge in particular is a 3-4 round AoE no-save fear which is extremely good in the context of pf2e.

For performance, you haven't missed anything. Unless you're maestro or polymath, you'll have little mechanical use for it. It's always a fun flavor skill though.

Why do you think skills not raised to legendary are effectively worthless? I understand as game progresses rolls this is needed to keep making rolls but surely at the lower levels this is still useful? If so at what point does trained skill become too underpowered?


HumbleGamer wrote:

Indeed maestro/Polymath are the only one that really benefits from performance in terms of abilities, but keep also in mind you can get an additional muse, resulting in being able to pick feats from either maestro or polymath, making performance an excellent choice.

If you want to just stick with your enigma bard, you might indeed consider a more specific char skill ( diplomacy, deception or intimidation ) in place of performance.

Mechanically speaking, performance will work for you as earn income, so you can just avoid it by picking additional lore ( you are going to have a high int value being an enigma, to make a proper use of bardic lore, so you won't be that much behind performance in terms of earn income ).

I suggest you to pick it anyway, getting maestro as additional muse ( it is gamechaning ), making you a great performer too.

This is great. Thanks so much. Everyone says maestro is the best one but for sone reason it’s the one that appeals to me least. What do you think of a enigma/polymath combo? Not sure how I should build it?

Finally, what is a high INT you mentioned? My character atm has:
Str 8 Con 12 Dex 16 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 18


HI,
New player here so apologies if this is a really obvious question.

I am trying to get my head round building a bard for Age of Ashes campaign and cannot get my head round what performance is useful for. I see that a number of the focus spells for maestro muse require peformance checks and it synergises with versatile performance but beyond this (and earning income) I can't see how investing in this skill pays off. Espcially as I am considering building an enigma bard. I like the idea of performance being part of my character but atm a maestro/polymath build is the only one that makes sense to me. What am I missing??