I would like to build a character that uses a Crossbow as their main weapon, preferably focusing on single shot rounds, mobility and/or siege/sniping. I mostly GM nowadays so I'm a little unversed in player options.
Is there any other options apart from Ranger or Gunslinger?
Stuff that I'd pick up if Ranger or Gunslinger:
Weapon: Heavy Crossbow
Running reload, crossbow ace, penetrating shot
Have you managed to play a crossbow character? I feel since I asked the question about crossbows just as Pathfinder 2 came out we have a lot more options.
In Pathfinder 1 there were some funky options for this out there, such as inquisitors, investigators, magus. Any such in Pathfinder 2?
Edit:
This will likely be an NPC, probably a villain. When I next have a chance to play in a game I'd like to try this out though.
I have been unsatisfied in how Pathfinder 2 (and 1) have dealt with crossbows. Or anything that is not a bow. I wish they had made them distinct choices.
Perhaps it isnt necessary, but I like having meaningful differences in ranged weapon that dictate gameplay not just damage output.
I havent come accross any suggestions that solidified a different niche for crossbows, and I waited til Guns and Gears was out to think about it. I know we have dabbled in rulings for pathfinder 1, but often were too clunky. So here's a Pathfinder 2 proposed house rule for heavier crossbows to simulate arbalests, and I'd like to hear your suggestions.
Explanations and goals
Crossbows are subpar and not different enough from bows. They should have a niche just like they did in history, and were effective weapons that saw hundreds of years of combat.
- Easy to use and train to a low standard
- Can hold the shot
- Good power
- Power not always depending on user (i.e. reload cranequins, pulleys, etc)
New Trait: AIM
When shooting a loaded crossbow you take aim and choose the opportune moment to shoot.
Spend a Single Action + Reaction, crossbow gains a ranged version of Power Attack (+one die damage, counts as 2 MAP attacks). This shot can be taken during your round, or as a reaction.
War Crossbow
1d8. Reload 2. 120ft range. Propulsive. Aim.
Heavy War Crossbow
1d10. Reload 2. 150ft range. Martial. Propulsive. Aim. Deadly.
Cranequinn/Pulleys
Mechanical contraption that aids in reloading a crossbow, allowing you to benefit from propulsive despite not meeting the strength requirements. Increases reload time by 1.
Considerations
The idea is to get crossbows to be slower to reload, but be able compete with a bow build, and offer a different play style, opening options towards Running Reload, or having a reloaded crossbow as a starter, or sniper gameplay, or siege defense.
The Aim trait adds power attack at range, adding an extra damage dice. This is strong since these crossbows can only reliably shoot once per round already, but it does come at the penalty of shooting once per round and consuming a reaction (open to action economy suggestions here). Perhaps the Deadly trait is debatable, I personally would like to put it to Fatal but I havent run proper numbers to warrant this.
Some basic numbers, just weapon damage, traits and strength:
Damage potential for a Heavy Crossbow single strike with Striking rune, strength of 18, is around 13 average (1d10 + 1d10 striking + 2 propulsive). Shooting with Aim, 18.5 average (3d10+2). A crit, if Deadly is applied, would be 42.5.
Same 18 strength shooter with a composite longbow striking would do in a single shot 1d8 + 1d8 striking + 2 propulsive, average 11 or so. But with reload 0, they can shoot two more times..the dpr calculation would have to include %hit and all that stuff.
A striking greatsword 18 strength does easily 23.5 damage average in a single hit, higher upper numbers too. A powerattack crit averages 47.
Obs. Numbers are approximations, no complex formulas used. Feel free to point any mistakes out.
I'd be happy to get some feedback, I GM mostly so I am not very versed in player feat/options that could interact with all of this. Overall I think it is lightweight and does not require a lot of tinkering and remembering, which is something I prioritise when bringing a new rule to the table.
At some point I'd like to get to guns. The ones I've introduced at our table have their own rules as a unique item, but that is for another thread.
I am wondering how people's groups are holding up after going through:
7 Brutes, 4 Jailers, 1 Priest, 1 Warden, 1 cyclop bbeg, 1 golgopo, 1 great cyclops, 3 cyclop brutes, and a gogieth, in a single connected dungeon.
PCs should be level 10 by then, how are their resources doing after a few fights? Do the spellcasters save their spells? I was just adapting part of this dungeon to my own adventure (as I often do with APs) and perhaps I dont have a good gauge of PF2 yet, but it seemed quite a steep amount of enemies, especially if they are intelligent and can call each other.
Pathfinder 2e has so far for us been the best system we have played in the d20 family, at least for our table. To GM it is a pleasure amd improvement from 1e.
HOWEVER
Pathfinder 2e is chock full of secret checks the Gm is supposed to do. There are Stealth, Diplomacy, Illusions, all sorts of other saves...and I feel they are many more than before.
Why is this a problem (for me)?
I am already juggling a lot of variables as a GM. Specially in combat. In the past, sure, the gm always rolled secret and at some point in ancient times of dnd the players didnt really roll much at all. But it hasnt quite been like that for Pathfinder 1, and the players rolling for almost everything is a hard to break habbit. I'll go over some of the issues I am facing...
Available information:
Just how many stats of my players does this system want me to track?
I feel like I should have my players character sheets at the ready every game, but I dont think this is feasable for everyone.
We play at a table, some with paper sheets some with mobile apps and some with computers. I have a computer, the rules book and a sketch pad for quick clarifications and some fast map drawing.
Time:
This adds a lot of time to the GM side. I feel PF2e has done well in smoothing the load, except with these. Now the GM has to ask the player what their X stat is, then roll it, and compare it to his own notes. Or bring up the player sheet from whereever (if you arent juggling books, papers and search tabs simultaneously I'd like to know how you do it) and go find that.
This just adds constantly little pauses, which are not helping smooth the game.
Elegant solutions and inmersion
Why secret checks are called for is obvious; suspension of disbelief, it helps the inmersion by hiding the numbers between an unknown screen, keeping the meta peeking its head into the game a bit longer.
However as much as the theory works in practice this is not elegant, adding extra steps to the GM procedures. The GM is already the bottle neck of the session - why cram that even more?
Perhaps they should have designed is a computer simulation to go with the game. A lightweight app on brand of Paizo with character sheets and a link to GM profile that would allow us to focus on the interactions and not the little numbers (which has been the trend jumping from pf1 to pf2)
In short, I am struggling as a GM to implement secret checks. I can:
- Hand wave it and not do them, having akward situations with stealth, illusions, poisons, etc and breaking inmersion just a little more.
- Do a mix, do a secret check for when I consider it is called, say a Dominate. But then I have to ask "what is your will save, with any modifiers to "enchantment"? Breaking inmersion with a 2 tonne jackhammer.
- Do secret checks. Ask every player to write their numbers in a quicksheet I provide at the start of the session (dont play VTT but I can see that it works better there). I feel like this is adding unnecessary and tension killing pauses to an already challenging hobby attention-span wise.
So please, tell me what is it you do, how do you get around this or what is your prefered solution? And what do you think about this emphasis on secret rolls, or how they could have been implemented more robustly.
And do you think Paizo should have considered making a rules software with data entry to go with the edition?
Do crossbows in Pathfinder 2e fill a similar role as in Pathfinder 1e? I have read that the ranger can make something out of their use (running reload), but I cannot find anything else too compelling.
Crossbows have a reload of 1 or 2 and slightly higher damage die than bows. What sets them apart from other ranged weapons? Why would anyone pick one up?
I am finding that after Assault of Stone the AP devolves into a different theme than the first 3 volumes, becomes more traditional adventuring sort of stuff, and most importantly, is just long with essentially not much happening except explaining some back story of why everything is happeningn, but not really (more on it later). For us Volume 4 is getting cut almost completely, and 5 will get beefed up and 6 probably shortened.
Anyway I thought I'd leave this short suggestion of how to cut the Siege of Get to a Dwarf who tells you where to go next cause he uses Scry. Stone. Something. (Yes I've got issues with the terrible overarching plot of this AP as much as I enjoy the individual modules. Onyx deus ex macguffins.)
In one of the sabotaging missions or in the hollow hills the party finds a Dwarf (or more) that are part of a scouting mission from Kraggodan.
Why are they scouting? They either do it often. Or they found that someone meddled with their treasury (something the PCs find out in module 4) so they follow the breadcrums in reverse, but end up captured by the Legion and put to work.
This Dwarf, a cousin of Karbutin so on good terms with him, says he's seen the devastation of Nirmathas, the urgency of helping out and also that the siege of Kraggodan was orchestrated by Azaersi (as they find Elacnida's and Fake Zanathura 's information before being captured). He swears on his dwarven beard that he will convince the dwarfs to sue for peace with Molthune and offer help.
Alternative if too close to the Siege of Longshadow timeline, have him use Send, or Teleport.
DURING OR AFTER THE SIEGE OF LONGSHADOW
A group of dwarf warriors arrive at Longshadow. Either marched from Kraggodan through one of the myriad holes to the longroad in the hollow hills, or teleported. They arrive before, during or after the siege. I would have it during the siege, cinematically stopping a charge of morlocks with their dwarven staltwarness, cementing themselves as allies of the PCs.
Karbutin is amongst them, he has been sent as an emergency delegate; Molthune and Kraggodan are discussing peace, and Karbutin has the info to tell them exactly what he tells them at the end of Volume 4 but wihout the PCs going to one of the most dangerous realms known on just a hunch (underdark...).
Karbutin uses Scry and fills them in the dwarven history.
WHAT ABOUT ELACNIDA?
If the story can proceed without a scene, or an explanation, then it is not serving to the purpose of the story and should not be there. This is common in story building. The Elacnida story whilst cool, does very little to explain the story or help it along. It's my opinion of course.
THE FANGWOOD, THE SARDONYX SHARD, AND THAT DUMBASS TAURGRETH (but not many changes here)
As written, Taurgreth is a smart dude that does something extremely foolish and possibly betrays the master he is extremely loyal to. He takes the Sardonyx Shard when he is sent to the Accressiel court (and doesnt take an Onyx Shard so he cant even use it, check this thread https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v15h?The-Onyx-Key).
Furthermore, we get introduced to a new villain that is potentially more dangerous than the Ironfang Invasion that isnt even allied with them. It starts to get silly, and we're not even at Camelot yet.
Here's my suggestion anyway: Azaersi sends a delegation to the Accressiel Court as before, but with a Sardonyx Shard and an Onyx Shard -on purpose- so her agents can return fast or they can send troops back and forth should negotiations prove successful. Or could go personally at first, whatever to make it more official.
Unfortunately, much as in the module, Arlantia has other plans, yet she is not a dumb tree as written, so she intends to play Azaersi and let the Legion break itself and Nirmathas/Molthune/Kraggodan before unleashing the blessings of the V plague. She infects the hobgoblins which will bear and spread the spores as they fight far away. She gets into Taurgreth's mind and extracts the secrets of the Shards.
The PCs arrive and do their thang.
Or Arlantia could be full-on with Azaersi and figures she'll cross the river when she gets to it. Whatever. So long as we clarify the Shard-Taurgreth's behaviour.
Module 5 is fantastic, it almost deserves its own standalone adventure. It is however very disconnected from the theme of the campaign, but hopefully this makes it a little more organic.
Hope you find this useful somehow. This AP once the Onyx Key gets properly involved starts to get silly and seems to be written in a disconnected manner where I feel the direction of volumes 4-5-6 was not set in stone until late and they shoehorned a bad artifact retroactively to explain some rather dubious and lazily written deus ex machina that happens off screen (without Taurgreth's foolishness there is no definitive solution to this AP).
But it's mostly about skipping volume 4 (as cool as the underdark is, we just wouldnt finish this campaign before feeling the railroads get mind bogglingly boring).
Hello all, we are getting ready to run Ironfang. I'll start saying that I am really excited, it looks promising, the reviews are solid and the playstyle is very much what we're looking for. I am the GM and with that, here are some things I am struggling with:
Nimarthas as a nation.
This one just doesnt make much sense to me - I have read Lands of Conflict, and Nimarthas just seems to be a couple hamlets protected by weather and eventual disorganisation of their enemies. Throughout the AP there are none of these reknown Nimarthas guerillas - the rangers are a distant backdrop (which I plan to play up that they got melted by the legion in advance leaving the task up for the PCs). However, there really is not much else to Nimarthas..I find it empty and lacking, both in its charisma and how defined it is and on its plausability.
The towns are non-descript, boring, bland and only distinct in that they NUH! any sense of order. For how used to conflict they are supposed to be, this AP makes this people act and feel like a bunch of plebs to which this is the first time their house gets burnt. It has even been done by monster legions in the employ of Molthune before but everyone is surprised to see a non human attack.
I just dont buy it and neither the AP nor Lands of Conflict make a good act of it. I will of course fill with my own stuff but perhaps I can get some suggestions from you.
Conflict between Nimarthas and Molthune.
Perhaps what I think defines Nimarthas the most, and being so played up just to be not featured at all in this AP is what hurts the setting the most. Again, I dont buy it. I am interested in blending in Molthunian politics and war in all of this, have you got any good refences for it? Not many threads about actual play throughs, though it is a topic often talked about.
I feel that without Molthune, Nimarthas is a non entity.
The Fey woods.
I like how they are portrayed in the early books and whilst I havent read the main plotline into the Dryad yet, I look forward to forshadow a lot more the fey-doings in this forest. Any good resources or anecdotes on this?
I feel that this is perhaps an important part of Nimarthas that only gets a passing note - I plan on playing its influence up.
Monstruous party.
Seems my players want to go with monstruous races, at least half of them strongly non human (goblin, gargoyle variant...). I would have prefered more standard stuff but I promised a frontier sort of game so I guess this is the game for this. Anything that pops to your mind that might not work or work well?
So, what makes Nimarthas for you? How did you run it or give it character? Often heard the Molthune-Nimarthas conflicts described as the Swiss prince states, if so any good resources to get inspired?
PS: I've run Skull and Shackles before. In comparison, Isles of the Shackles, is an AMAZING product that becomes the backbone of the AP and lets you spitball anything the party wants to do. I am strongly disappointed in Lands of Conflict as a product and perhaps more in how "developed" this particular setting is.
Hey so we're taking on a new campaign (an AP) in Pathfinder after a short foray into 5e. 5e had some decent things, but it didnt have Pathfinders depth. That said, Pathfinder becomes waaay too clunky fast...what bonus where not to this because sacred but wait does dodge go with all? Etc.
Armour Class:
-Touch AC is removed. Instead anyone targetting Touch AC gets to add +5 to their attack.
-Touch Spells (and Su, etc) use Caster Level instead of Bab.
-Guns have no misfire.
-Flat Footed AC is removed. If attacking a flat footed target you get Advantage (as in 5e, you roll twice take best). If attacking whilst FF you get Disadvantage. Rogues and company still get their bonus stuff when attacking FF targets.
Goal here is to remove a lot of the buff recalculating and making things go faster in combat.
Movement and Attacks:
-Split movement; you may split your movement as you wish and make an attack at any point. Example move 15 ft, attack, move 15 ft. I believe this is in 5e too but we never used it.
-Potentially also thinking of allowing people to sacrifice 1 attack and gain up to their move during a full attack. Pseudo pounce basically...this might be too strong, definitely need feedback here.
Spells and campaign effects:
- Mirror Image is 1d2 images + 1/3 levels
- Blur/Displacement/Mirror Images/similar buffs do not stack
- Haste is level 4
- Maximum spell buff per character of 3. (or 2 offensive 2 defensive?
The goal here is too minimise a lot of the obsesive compulsive buffing that happens sometimes when taking minor challenges and just takes time. One player wants to buff..it triggers a paranoid reaction of everyone bathing in a million buffs. The Mirror Image and displacement not stacking is to level the playfield a bit between arcane casters and non arcane casters. All of this is also applied to enemies.
----------------------
Overall I'm looking for house rules that do away with the clunk of Pathfinder while remaining elegant and not adding more number crunching. Not because we are not capable, but because I want to focus more on combat narrative and quicker resolution/flow of combat. I'm all ears for any you may have and any feedback you can give me!
...which means we get maps in APs/adventures that look like crossectioned ants nests filled with uninteresting fights. Here's there thought process:
The "Adventuring Day" is one of these ideas that varies from group to group but are an important design philosophy for the game designers and adventure writers. It can be further be divided into "encounters per rest" and "encounters per session". It is also linked with XP requirements but I'll stay out of this for this discussion.
Pathfinder 1 paizo products have seemed to revolve around a high number of daily encounters of equal or less than equal party CR, culminating with a couple of higher than party CR. Most classes have "uses per day", vancian casting and similar mechanics in place tied to these assumptions. Some classes excel at this better than others, a magus will do better in short adventuring days than a fighter (in most common builds).
So, if you dont like this way of playing why not just change it at your table?
Well, we do, however:
Pathfinder Adventure Paths* and shorter adventures, which are one of their most consumed products, are probably Pathfinder's main manisfestation of this design happens, where we encounter spreads of maps with myriad of rooms with each of often very low CR.
These map/encounters are terrible. They are not interesting, they are not interactive, not challenging, they are not anything but time wasting and page space wasting. Starting combat is slow (which PF2e seems to improve on), combat itself is slow too especially at higher levels and can quickly bog down the mood if it is not interesting/challenging.
Pathfinder has definitely gotten better through the years at avoiding these as they do appear more in older publications, but they are there still. They are a tool, but should not be the standard. We have a saying in our group, "Another Paizo Dungeon" to mean the gm is about to compress 5 pages into 1, because flipping through the pages to see if room C-2746 had 2 or 3 goblins is not necessary.
As I mentioned above I suspect they are a product of XP requirements, but also of space constraints (expanding 5 rooms to 23 rooms on the same map is cheaper than making a new one), how classes are designed and balance (resource managing vs risk), and perhaps most likely, old D&D baggage.
So, I am wondering how much is PFe2 going to suffer from this Another Paizo Dungeon syndrome, since it that arises from core design choices. Thinking back I have often decided to buy an adventure mostly informed on flipping through it and seeing how much page space was used in telling me I could, in fact, throw hordes of low cr encounters at my player VS interesting plot hooks, dialogue, etc.
For us, the "adventuring day" is one of those sacred cows that we sacrificed long ago, the old school dungeon giving way to a more buzzword filled storytelling experience.
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A note, because we're all sensitive butterflies inside: I am very fond of Paizo, I am afterall a customer that buys a lot of their products and have good praise for their writers, work philosophies and support (seriously <3 you customer support). I also criticise, hopefully constructively, even though I'll make a quip here or there.
*I can find a dozen rules systems I like and willing to play, it is the combination of Pathfinder rules AND published adventures for which I keep playing Pathfinder. APs solve part of the hardest part of this hobby.
I like to run games where death is non reversible - outside of a Breath of Life if you die, you are dead and it is time to make a new character. This is my group's personal preference and for us it enriches the story telling.
However Pathfinder power curves and CR ratings assume that Ressurection is a tool and also a resource (measurable in gold). If you take this away and you run the game as is you possibly might end up having a lemmings game on your hands. When you take away ressurection you essentially take away a chunk of power budget from your players.
So what do you do in your games to mellow this out? We always clarify at the start of the campaign what the understanding with lady death is, and my players trust the GM enough to accept death when it comes.
I personally dont like hero points too much...they always felt a little deus ex machina - perhaps it is my own fault where I cant find the balance of there being too many hero points or too few. Has anyone any insight on these, how have you tweaked them?
I would really like to hear of people running such games and what their solutions are or what their experiences are with problems that may have cropped up.
On non permanent death I feel like it is a speed bump and I feel it creates way too many loop holes around story lines. There are very few APs (which is mostly what we play) where I find it hard to think "why wouldnt this bad guy just get ressurected again, or have a contingency set up for it when it happens?" and adding permanent death makes sense and certainly creates less head aches for the GM. We mostly manage to run a fun and relaxed game with a gritty edge (and shy away from high heroic APs) but as a GM I feel that Pathfinder sometimes assumes an encounter can kill someone but they'll be able to bring him back, essentially burning a resource.
I am always bothered about how shooting a bow, a gun and a crossbow is mechanically almost the same in Pathfinder and some are just superior, when in reality all had circumstantial use and at some points coexisted together in the battle field. I will present modified rules for their use, I'd also like some feedback!
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---------------------------------- SUMMARY
Crossbows and guns are shot once per round, do higher damage per shot than before and function a little different from each other, to better represent them as they were used in history.
---------------------------------- HISTORY AND USE
Breaking them down in historical and practical terms:
Crossbows were used in battle from the 6 century BC (China) that we know of up to the 1800s, and are still used recreationaly (hunting).
Crossbows are easy to use compared to bows. Depending on their build their use varies, from the low piercing but rapid firing early chinese repeating crossbows to the slow loaded devastating arbalests of europe. I will not deal with repeating crossbows until later. Whilst easier to aim without training than bows and with shorter ammunition, still more propense to environmental factors than guns..wind, moisture, arched shot.
- Easy/short time to train vs bows
- Slow reloading times (cranks, stirrups, users strength)
- High damage/piercing
- Moderate aiming difficulties
Guns also appeared first in China 12 C (hand bombards), and we have had almost every iteration possible. They were advanced technology at some point, then expensive to manufacture and supply powder for and later were common place from manufacture to usage. I picked 1600s guns to parse rules for. Having several hand guns preloaded in your person was often seen.
- Easy/short time to train vs bows
- Slow reloading times (muzzle loaded, powder horns..)
- High damage/piercing
- Easy to aim. Projectile less affected by environment in short distances.
Bows, eldest of the three, most versatile and saw the most time used in battle. Some bow types required years of practice and even physical conditioning (i.e. longbow, horseback archery..). Indeed in the hands of someone skilled, fast rate of fire, accurate and damaging. Pathfinder rules as is do a decent job of covering archery.
---------------------------------- RULES
CROSSBOWS
May only repload once per turn, never more
Reloading is a Standard Action
Rapid Reload reduces it to a Move Action
Rapid Shot allows you to combine a move action and reload as a single action
Crossbow Mastery reduces loading to a free action, still limited to 1 reload/round
Damage base changed to d4s
Strength Rating like bows added represents tensile strength needed to load, each + results in an added +1d4 damage
Touch AC first 40 ft
You may have a crossbow remain loaded indefinitely
Damage suggestion, Light start 2d4, medium 3d4, heavy 4d4
CROSSBOWS, reload mechanisms
Mechanical loading: you may not use your own strength modifier to reload a weapon, but minimal reload time is always a Move Action.
All mechanisms (Crank, Lever, Windlass) for simplicity have the same effect, you're welcome to spice things up yourself
Proficiency recommended as simple, up to GM.
GUNS
May only reload once per turn
Reloading is a Full Round Action
Rapid Reload reduces relaoding to a Move and allows 2 hand guns to be reloaded at once
Rapid Shot allows you to combine a move action and reload as a single action, and to shoot 2 hand guns simultaneously
Damage base changed to two increases in size (1d8->1d12, etc)
No misfire
Crit multiplier reduced by 1
If common, included in same proficiencies as crossbows
You may have a gun remain loaded indefinitely
COSTS
Crossbow Mechanical reload should be affordable early, scaling cost with strength rating
Crossbow strength rating costs equal or higher to bow, with max limits on hand/light
Guns should remain expensive for rare, or affordable if common, up to game style
Reccomended extra house rules:
-Vital Strike is a single feat that auto upgrades to Improved/Greater
-(Tentative)Add half Half Dex when using a Move action to aim, or full Dex when using a full round action
-Drop Point blank shot as a prerequisite for anything
-Deadly Aim 1.5x ratio as two handed power attack for heavy crossbows/guns
CONSIDERATIONS AND OPTIONS:
What if I walk into combat with 7 loaded guns?
You shoot 1 gun per round, unless you have Rapid Shot then you may shoot 2
I want to make a full attack build with guns/xbows
I suggest building around revolver style guns and repeating crossbows
Gravity Bow?
Usual for guns. For crossbows I would crunch some numbers, but initially would just increase the base damage size
2d4s vs 1d8s and other numbers?
Depending on what sort of spread you want, a more average or more swingy, really not a big deal. I like giving love to all my dice so they dont get jealous of the d20 and d6. I would adjust the dice size depending on what sort of power levels you want the weapons at, though for standard pathfinder I reccomend these as written.
Gunslingers?
While gunslinger damage decreases from being able to apply Dex to damage several times a round, they can still be build around carrying muyltiple guns or multichamber/revolver style guns. I personally do not think the Gunslinger is a well designed class, it is consensus that after level 5 you are better off multiclassing. It is also build over the gun rules changed here, so yeah it doesnt work the same. I would redesign some of their abilities around aiming or having several guns. Someone had to bite the bullet. Hur hur.
Scaling and going beyond
This system makes it easy to go beyond Heavy Crossbows into arbalests, gastraphetes, and all myriad forms of these beautiful tools. Add d4s, bump up the size damage, allow Int to damage (since only applied once)..modifying things and making special weapons becomes more interesting and breaks less stuff.
Pavise? Aiming sticks?
Plenty of design space for these with these rules, havent gotten to writing them down though.
Sword & Gun?
Perfectly viable with the right feats, more so than before for non gunslingers.
EXAMPLES for crossbows:
Fighter level 2, 17 strength, Medium Crossbow (manual +2 strength rating) JOHN
Damage: Medium Crossbow 3d4+2d4 (5-20)
Figther level 2, 17 strength, Medium Crossbow (mechanical +2 strength rating) WEALTHY JOHN
Damage: Medium Crossbow 3d4+2d4 (5-20)
Fighter level 2, 17 strength, Medium Crossbow (mechanical strength rating +5) RICH GUY
Damage: Medium Crossbow 3d4+3d4 (6-24)
Figher level 2, 22 strength, Medium Crossbow (mechanical strength rating +5) RICH GUY HERCULES
Damage: Medium Crossbow 3d4+5d4 (8-32)
The first too examples are believable and the damage is within standards. The next two guys, even though their stats or weapons have larger capabilities, dont get to exploit them. RICH GUY doesnt have enough strength to load his crossbow all the way so he is capped at a +2, and RICH GUY HERCULES has a +6 strength but only a +5 strength rating crossbow.
Wizard level 7, 9 strength, Medium Crossbow (manual +2 strength rating) PUNY EDWIN
Damage: 0d4, go buy a light crossbow
Wizard level 7, 10 strength, has Rapid Reload, Medium Crossbow (mechanical +5 strength rating) WHY EDWIN WHY
Damage: 3d4+5d4 (8-32)
EDWIN the wizard has a loaded crossbow, shoots it, and then must spend a full round action to load it, and doesnt get the +2 strength rating since he cant load it to that point. WHY EDWIN WHY whilst intelligent, didnt put points into wisdown so he bought an expensive crossbow, he gets to do more damage but still needs a full round action to load it. WHY EDWIN WHY has rapid reload, thus does more damage and reloads/shoots every round.
Fighter level 6, 20 strength, Vital Strike feat, Medium Crossbow (manual +3 strength rating) VAN NOT HELSING
Damage: Heavy Crossbow 4d4+3d4 (7-28) plus weapon training etc once
Vital strike damage: 8d4+6d4 (12-56) plus weapon training etc once
Fighter level 11, 20 strength, Improved Vital Strike feat, Medium Crossbow (manual +5 strength rating) VAN STILL NOT HELSING
Damage: Medium Crossbow 4d4+5d4 (9-36) plus stuff once
Imp Vital Strike damage: 8d4+10d4 (18-72) plus stuff once
VAN STILL NOT HELSING is doing roughly 45 damage per hit from the crossbow and improved vital strike damage, we could assume he has a +3 enchant on the weapon, weapon specialisation, weapon training +2 and uses normal Deadly Aim for -3/+6, giving us a (18-72) + 13, with the ability to move around in the battle field as he reloads. This is not a dedicated build, just a switch hitter.
We can do better for a dedicated build. Say a permanent Gravity Bow enchant, taking the Crossbowman archetype for +Dex on that one shot per round, buying a mechanical arbalest +6 windlass strength rating, increasing Dex and lowering Str since we wont need it that much anymore. This is more competitive and in line with current ranged builds.
The crew has put the Shackles under their rule. A few years pass, and not all has been the laying back and basking in glory - indeed, after a tenuous victory over the Chellish fleet the Shackles were weakened and perhaps more divided than ever. Each of the crew carved their own territory out of the isles, differences began to arise...
Local captains testing the new Hurricane king's boundaries, Cannibals rising in the West, the resurgent Bloodcove and dragon activity at Dahak's isles are a few of the internal strife. Rahadoum, witness to the potential maritime might of a united Shackles prepares its navy and Chelliax seeks repair in pride...
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Short version: Want to replay in the Shackles, got ideas for small plots and orverarching ones but I need prewritten modules to be the backbone and build upon. Suggestions please.
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So my love for the Shackles and the theme of this AP made it the best adventure we have played so far and I keep coming back to the idea of running it again, but half of the group has already played it. Here comes the idea: starting a new campaign in the viccinity of the Shackles and slowly trickling into it, culminating in the fate of the Isles again.
How I want to do this, considering I dont want to run the same modules, is to support the world building we've already done with prewritten modules. This already happens to some extend, a popular suggestion for example is to use Souls for Smuggler's Shiv (Serpents Skull #1) as the start for the Shackles. Now I just need to find more modules to become the backbone of the adventure.
The new party gets to explore the changed Shackles and the fates of the previous crew, making and breaking alliances with old and new names.
Rough plotline:
Act I - Party is stranded somewhere, out of context of what they know and uncommunicated. Plenty NPCs to like/dislike ala crew of the Wormwood. Enemy to overcome to make their escape possible.
(so far Souls for Smuggler's shiv, reskinned in a mangrove lagoon..)
Act II - Into the woods, or through the mangroves/coast to emerge somewhere with context, they can finally place themselves on a map. Carve themselves a little corner, struggle with early survival. Hear about some big players/events.
Act III - get thrown into the mix. As they gather power/become known powers try to recruit them. Or they fall into more powerful group's sights. The main overarching plot becomes more apparent.
etc...
Overarching plots:
Option 1 - The Serpents Writhe/Old Empire, the serpentfolk come out of the dark to conquer what they lost. The Shackles is their first step.
Option 2 - Revenge for Pride, Chelliax and/or other navies put their sights on the Shackles for regain of pride or to reopen the trade lines to colonies.
Option 3 - Relics of the Sea, someone finds out that there is an artifact that can control all sea monsters to do their bidding; a battle of interests between the Captains, foreign nations and gods (Besmara's pets should stay her pets, easy hook).
Throw in Abendego maelstrom mysteries, the master of the gales and his disappearances, the spread of the cannibals, Raugsmauda the Lich has been reformed in her grave under the sea and has gotten some fool Captain (previous S&Shackles first mate, for example, who was a sadistic slaver drow anyway) to bring her up, Sargava starved from supplies gets overrun by natives, Dahak's Fangs fires up....a million possible things, (supported by the amazing book Isles of the Shackles).
So what modules would you suggest to go through an AP of piracy, exploration and plundering, if you revisited the Shackles?
We have character concepts for mechanical things but usually the best characters are those that have a simple, contundent backstory that drives them.
From Hailey of OotS to save those she loves (and being misinterpreted throughout it), Jean Vanjean (Les Miserables, the pursuit of an honest life while keeping his identity secret), Edmond Dantès in an intricate revenge plot (Count of Montecristo), Dread Pirate Roberts (one of a long line, not really who you'd think he is, Princess Bride), Cassandra can see the future but is cursed to ever be thought a fool (Illiad), Constantine faces a dark end and does what he can to elongate his meeting with either god (Hellblazer)...all these have that spark that makes you buy into them.
Rather than the whole story revolve around them though it can be run as a backstory the GM can call upon.
The thief who took the wrong Coin
"Should even the most insignificant of
treasures depart Erebus without his leave, Mammon knows
as surely as one who has a digit sliced from his hand. The
archdevil’s schemes of reprisal and repossession come
swi! and terrible upon the heads of thieves, demanding
recompense in near-impossible proportions to what was
stolen." - Council of Thieves part 6
A thief stole what he thought was just another gold piece to later find that in fact it was part of the Archedevil Mammon's own hoard. She now travels Golarion with a very specific goal in purpose; the Prince of Erebus has named his prize. It could be something the party is also after. Can be twisted further with someone finding out that the coin was placed there on purpose and that unvalidates the contract, freeing the character.
Got any interesting ones? I guess these can work as NPCs as well.
I am trying to plan a campaign with modules as the structure. With a home brew meta plot but using APs, modules and scenarios to forward it.
Therefore the challenge is to graft these with each other in a believable way that allows the story to flow.
Main question is, have you done it and what did you use?
And secondly, my idea and perhaps you could help me out finding sources for it:
The plot has a "look for this fabled item/place" endgoal, like many of the current APs. It is in fact not that important, but why the characters want to get there and how they do so is. It assumes the characters buy into it personally and will pursue it (through backstories etc, not a concern).
It is my ambition to take the group through many parts of Golarion and its cultures. We've played a couple of APs and have grown accustomed to the setting, ready to dive into it further.
I am personally interested in finding adventures of the following nature:
- Jungle adventures, plus points for scarce resources, environment tough ones, surival (note, own Heart of the Jungle).
- Urban Intrigues. I own CotCT revised and the Sixfold Trial, which I'll be using. Crime solving and puzzle solving a plus.
- Temple incursion / Indiana Jones style. Not just a dungeon, needs interactions with npcs/whatever.
- A maze, that requires a bit of thinking to navigate.
- Tian Xia. I have the Ruby tournament but it is lacking in showing them around.
- Dealing with the Aspis consortium, Whispering Way, Mantis assasins and such groups highly desirable.
- Adventures at sea (we've done the Shackles).
- Good dungeons with fun traps that arent just a check..
- Modules that have player decision making, hopefully to link it to something else.
- Any particular areas of Golarion fun to explore in a "passing by" way.
In essence, that Indiana Jones, Treasure Island feeling with a Firefly sort of crew. Where there are several parties trying to get at something and the group sort of dances in between all of them.
We'll probably start with a mash up for CotCT in a Westcrown/Chellaxiam setting and homebrew, continue into the Sixfold Trial full on and then start overseas exploration.
As a curiosity I have transcipted the game Clive Barker's Undying into Pathfinder format. As far as stories go, especially in rpg horror, it is brilliant and very easy to adapt. It will be run at levels 2-3 or so. Not much decision making to the whole dealing with it, but a fun run into "horror".
Unchained's Revised Action Economy has now been out for a while. It got very mixed reviews then, and probably still has and the core of the issue is that it moves power around and you either accept it or dont.
We need to review actual play of these rules now.
I would like to hear from people who have been using the RAE in their games, how has it affected your combat and fluidity and which classes. I am thinking of starting a new game and on the fence on implementing this (mostly everything else Unchained is though).
What Im particularly looking for:
Has movement "creep" become a problem? You can now do 60ft movement + 1 action. People crossing battle maps faster?
Does combat feel different? Is it more fluid?
Have Swift action classes been hurt (magus, warpriest etc)? Did you house rule this?
Have unused builds and strategies come into play? (demoralise, feinting, hit and run)
Is there a notable difference in play compared to the old system?
Did you houserule something? If so, what? Case by case swift actions etc...
Rocket tag. Is it happening less, more? Less at higher levels?
There are some things I like about the system...ranged can move shoot and hide, one big hit enemies are more dangerous (action economy usually made these enemies weaker), hit and run like pseudo spring attack from everyone, no more million attacks at high levels (might make combats last more rounds but the same duration), limits casters to chose mobility or casting when quickening spells, feinting works.
All in all I wonder if there is a point to this system apart from shifting power balance slightly or if it'll just bring too many headaches for little benefit.
I dont see Paladins using smite, Rangers using Instant enemies and other really dramatic buffs needing an action a problem. I think the middle ground buffs are the problematic ones (f.ex monks).
There is a very very long discussion of RAE here which I did follow when it was going on and have re read most of it. However, we need play experience now:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s6z0&page=4?unchained-How-is-the-new-actio n-economy-system
Is anyone...using this system at all? Or did it just get dust forgotten...
I run some APs and have been wondering at the disparity in difficulty between one BBG and another depending on their class (sometimes on their context battle too).
Example. Skull and Shackles:
...Zaksia Galembar alchemist, Isabella the sorcerer, the wreckers, Bikendi vs Harrigan/any non caster.
The casters are a possible tpk usually with a few deaths; just from looking at the obituary threads and from personal experience
It does vary upon:
- Group Composition, Preparation, Optimisation and Tactics
- Previous knowledge by PCs of BBEG or the opposite
- Luck. Them saves or suck rolls...
Considering this, I pit my players (party of 4, a divine nature caster, a monk/rogue, an occultist and a swashbuckler, all level 10 with decent wbl/optimisation) against a single cleric that knew they were coming and had fought against the party 3 levels before. They knew they were probably going to fight him too.
The cleric BB(g)G battle::
A level 12 cleric with 1 mythic ability (reroll spell resistance), epic point buy (25), automatic bonus progression and a little spice. No henchmen.
Focuses on channel with the aasimar feats (push/pull). Very high DC due to charisma focus, feats and traits increasing charisma and a little bump for being alone. Variant channeling but totally forgot to apply the effect even though I was halving the damage.
Prebuffed with:
Antilife shell (PCs dispelled it after 4 targeted dispels...), True seeing, Shield of Fortification, Aid, Righteous Might, Wrathful Mantle. Can fly due to aasimar wings.
Edit: and some lower level buffs with longer durations, such as Aid.
Battle:
It was painful and I was a little worried it could end in a tpk or 3 party members dead with the cleric surviving/escaping.
Cleric comes in and taunts them, they approach him and are met by his Antilife shell. The dispels from the PCs start, failing. He channels (pushes them), casts Harm with Reach (rod-mythic) and gets the swashbuckler down to 1hp. The dispels continue, failing. He quick channels, casts Blade Barrier. He's almost killed 2 people by now.
Round 3 anti life shell is dispelled..but his high buffed AC allows him to survive long enough. He channels, pushing all, and flies up in the air ready to disengage the battle (Grace spell).
Now, appart from the pre-buffing, I didnt play him too smart, for example he actually landed and let the enemies surround him cause he's arrogant. He didnt go for the sure kills as he wasnt quite interested in killing.
We didnt finish the fight, some PCs wanting to continue chasing him...even though he'd probably turn around and unload the other half of the resources he hasnt spent yet and toast at least 2 of them.
Seeing this and a few of the enemies I've played...casters with a little smart play are absolutely terrifying and I feel that if I dont play them a bit dull, they can absolutely tear a party down in a minute.
For example from Skull and Shackles, there is an illusionist ghost mage who played smartly would never fight unless he had the advantage, and even if he didnt I dont see all members of the group surviving.
What sort of experiences do you have, do you find this normal too?
Am I optimizing enemies a bit too much?
A CR 12 figher or a CR 12 cleric or a CR 12 wizard as enemies are pears, apples and oranges; how do you deal with this?
Hello, I came to discuss a topic around TPKs, the much dreaded, much debated campaign ender/betrayer.
I am interested in hearing if someone took the route of continuing the campaign after a TPK but all starting in some other plane/underworld to make their way back to the current campaign.
I myself have a little back up plan for when this happens, and I am debating whether it is a good idea at all. Of course, it'd have to be well done but it'd basically add another chapter to the campaign.
As for reasons, many campaigns do end up dead in the water if the current party doesnt make it. We run a pretty gritty-no res campaign and I absolutely loathe deus-ex-machina unless they are done very skillfully.
This also gives the opportunity to change the pace/flavour of the campaign, going through the realm of the dead and facing perhaps the crimes theyve done before, or even change it to a more whimsical thing if it's appropriate.
So, ever done it? How did it go? Think it is a good idea?
Hello, I've posted from time to time in this subforum and was hoping to this time contribute a little with extra content that I've used in our Skull & Shackles campaign. I will be adding the quests and sub plots that our group has been going through and the things of the AP that got heavily modified.
I started GM'ing with this AP. I had the idea to make it more sandboxy than it is since the Shackles provide a fantastic setting and a great chassis. I also love the age of sail/pirates/anything nautical so that helps in getting into S&S, an AP I strongly recommend.
Rule modifications:
Any race, any class, no resurrection easily available (wish/miracle/gods/very high levels). No long range scrying nor teleporting. Gunpowder/Guns allowed..will be few at start and will become more prevalent as the campaign goes on. Crossbows target Touch AC when using a single Attack Action. Siege does double damage to ships. Cannon does tripple damage. Ships have their hp divided in sections.
I introduce self made content within the story. Generally I dont tell the players what is and what isn't but they know it's so.
I must also admit to have influences from some external sources. First to mention would be One Piece..the idea that each crew has a theme and the officers have quirks or are memorable really appeals to me and I believe makes the game a little more interesting. A combination of the gritty sailing and the exaggerated themed crews. Another is my personal experience, I spend a lot of time sailing traditional sailing ships so I'll throw some fun details here and there. Add pirate tropes, novels and games of course.
Tools used:
Fire As She Bears (only as guidelines)
Isle of the Shackles (fantastic)
Ships of the Inner Sea (another pearl)
Rival Guide
Razor Coast
Plunder and Peril
From Sea to Shore
Heart of the Jungle
Cerulean Seas (some items)
City of the Seven Spears (Serpent's Skull part 3)
Wayfinder #8 Mass Combat
Treasury of the Fleet
Tarin's Crown
Raid on the Emperor's Hand
Pirate Codex
Many of the posts in this forum, great ideas!
Music played on the background..mostly youtube stuff
Battles:
We dont use figures but we use a white board on which we draw with markers. The PCs/NPCs are represented by small 1cmx1cm magnets (each a colour/letter). When more detail is necessary we use a paper grid on which I've generally drawn a map on.
....so here it is, note that I have written a sort of "planned" event and how it turned out. Not all the details are written, especially the personalities of NPCs etc wont always be described.
Trying to build a character with the following concepts:
Uses guns/xbows, high level casting for Animate Objects, preferably is a Spellslinger/gun related, uses a few rounds to do his set up.
His set up would be him having siege weaponry on floating disks that take minimal effort to fire, casting animate objects on siege enegines on floating disks/surroundings or a bunch of floating ones.
It is not for a PC but building it as it were, for levels 8-15 or so. I have this image of a guy sailing on a small craft or being marooned, then being taken on board by a larger vessel or approached, and at that point shows his hand, a floatingdiskloads of loaded guns and cannons floating in front of their faces..."I'll be comandeering this ship", basically a character that takes over ships alone.
What I have so far:
- Spell Slinger or Siege Mage for casting + flavour
- Casting Animate object on guns. Not on the wizard spell list. Ideas?
- Floating disks to carry Balistae/Cannon, some threads around about this.
- How to load/fire the guns/siege? Do I need Abundant Ammunition, does Animate Object fire but not reload? Then Reloading Hands is necessary? This would be a hell of a setup.
- Loading guns/siege with blast shot/grape for wiping entire decks out.
- Use of Tiny Hut to conceal his apparel and use offensively in battle.
I could use a bit of help with ideas of how to put this together, I am not great with gunslinger nor siege stuff.
"Is Legacy of Fire right for me and my group?" I would really appreciate some answers to help me decide if to run tnis AP!
I am a fan of the desert theme, from the mystical realms of djinns and mirages of treasure oasis, to the palaces of the east and their twisted, shadowy politics to the gritty and unforgiving cruelty of the sun and sands. And spitting camels.
Is Legacy of Fire delivering on these themes adequately? I run Skull and Shackles for my group and it is fantastic, evocative setting mimicking real world age of sail exploration dashed with the impossible legends of the sea, so I look towards this AP with hopes that it'd be as good at creating as strong an atmosphere.
I run a lot of sandboxy homebrew quests, adding npcs and storylines where I can, so Im alright with tweaking the story to link things better/differently.
My players are a good mix of roleplaying-combat, enjoying colourful settings and npcs, playing mostly for a laugh. Some domget attached to their pcs/npcs so would hope there are interesting and recurring npcs. They dont enjoy the fetch quests nor looong dungeon crawls (paizo ap dungeons i generally condense anyway) and appreciate roleplaying opportunities in them (generally through npcs). They do not like to play GOOD characters, but more down to earth ambitions, grey moralities.
Has this AP aged well? Newer books and class options can make aps feel dated without reconverting many npcs and items. Also the use of a sturdy interesting optional system (S&S Infamy) would be a plus (not jade regent caravan, for example)
Finally, can some of these modules be run as one-offs? (similar to city of 7 spears of Serpents Skulls 3) Any modules/other ap books you think fit well?
Thank you in advance :)
A shout to Shaun; if you see this, I noticed you run/play both S&S and LoF and I really like your input in the S&S forums, how do you find this one in comparison?
Looking for advice with a thought excercise which is not uncommon but usually done with bards, arcanes and divines. Thanks to Unchained and other source books the rogue has now a greater choice.
TLDR All rogue party
Premise:
You turn up for a new campaign and everyone, after planets align and ancient Arcadian prophecies came to be, has decided to play rogue. You decide to go ahead and must brave a paizo AP.
Goal:
You must take on an Adventure Path with only rogues
Conditions:
-Unchained Rogue, Ninja, Variant multiclassing, allowed
-All paizo published content allowed (leadership and usual offenders are not)
-20 point buy because your DM is amused at your futility
-In case of death new pcs are rogues too
-Avoid normal multiclassing
What is your all rogue party composed of? No need for full builds but archetypes and how to get around problems is important. What party niche do they fill (face, arcane, etc)?
Ive a few ideas but Im sure as good scoundrels we can find a way to twist things to our advantage.
I am looking to make a list of spells and abilities that damage attackers when they strike you. The least amount of saves the better. It is for a character concept called the "Touch Me Please" which likes to be hit, for the following reasons:
Any more suggestions? Any spell or class ability is fine, from growing spines to striking the enemy to attempting to make them trip with your blood while you both scream in pain.
Combat Expertise, considered a feat tax which forces martials to up intelligence to 13. Makes you worse at doing many of the feat Chains that it opens (combat maneuvres). Pure feat tax without any reason.
Melee tactics toolbox comes out and I quote:
" Combat Expertise is a useful feat for combatants who qualify for it, either with sufficient Intelligence scores or equivalent class abilities such as brawler’s cunningACG and swashbuckler finesseACG."
I am baffled at this sentence. So they put a book out for martials and they slap CE and 13 int requirements on many feats, then tell you it is a good feat (in fighting smarter section).
Is this feat used by anyone as anything but a feat tax? There have been many posts about this feat so I am baffled Paizo decide to come with it as a banner of good tactics.
Perhaps it is an effort to salvage it? What are the reasons this feat is being forced as prerequisite when it looked like they had unđerstood and abandoned it previously?
Wondering if by using Hex vulnerability and Fortune straight after together with Cackle, you are able to use Fortune as many as Caster Level (hex vulnerability) times.
How would Soothsayer interact? Cast Fortune with soothsayer at the beginning of the day. Battle starts some hours later. Example:
Round 1
You cast Hex Vulnerability on yourself. Say CL = 11.
Round 2
You decide to use Fortune on a single attack roll (Triggers Fortune cd/Soothsayer effect), you reroll the attack, then Cackle as a move.
Round 3
Attack (reroll from Fortune), Cackle.
Rounds 2-11 Fortune/Cackle is mantained due to Hex Vulnerability (11 rounds)
Round 12
Hex vulnerability wears off, you may not benefit from Fortune again.
Hex vulnerability is often used to heal oneself with Healing Hex more times in the day.
The far strike monk says that you may add to the bonus list any targeting feat. What does this mean?
The feat "pin point targeting" is a targeting feat but i doubt we're supposed to be able to take it considering it has a bab 16 requirement.
"A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them."
If so, this archetype is bananas.
Reference:
Bonus Feats
A far strike monk adds the following feats to his list of bonus feats at 1st level: Far Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and any targeting feat
Pinpoint Targeting (Combat)
You can target the weak points in your opponent's armor.
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single ranged attack. The target does not gain any armor, natural armor, or shield bonuses to its Armor Class. You do not gain the benefit of this feat if you move this round
I have some questions on Whirlwind Attack, as I find the wording confusing. I am GMing a group and this will come up soon.
WhirlWind Attack:
Whirlwind Attack (Combat)
You can strike out at every foe within reach.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you use the full-attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. You must make a separate attack roll against each opponent.
When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.
Reach vs Threatened:
You attack each opponent WITHIN REACH.
Does this means that if you have a reach weapon you can also attack those at your 5ft squares, not only those at 10ft squares?
Case Study: Boarding Pike of Repelling from Skulls and Shackles extends to 20ft as a swift action. Does it mean said character attacks everyone within 20 ft? Just those at 20ft?
Forfeit any bonus or extra attacks:
Does this refer to boni such as Bless, True Strike, Weapon Focus, Power Attack? Or is the bonus just redundancy with extra, refering to attacks?
Any help, I cant find anything in the forums, very underused feat.
This is a recopilation that everyone can use but will likely appeal to a specialised few. I would like your help with it though!
It is a guide about what to do when you have spent your Standard Action doing something and have a Move Action left over and don't want/can't move.
The reason for this guide is that I was trying to put together a character concept revolving around sniping with a crossbow. Almost futile. Threads like "One Big Hit build" and many others dealing with Vital Strike, Cleave and such have been the kindling for this.
Now, I have only a few suggestions and since Pathfinder is vast, perhaps we can all put down what we know. Eventually we can wrap this up in a google doc or with pretty colours :)
MOVE ACTIONS
Feats
Team Up: Aid Another as a Move Action
Bulls Eye Shot: Gain +4 bonus on a ranged attack as a move action (PF Companion: Faiths of Purity)
Equipment Trick:Varies depending on the armament. Adventurer’s Armoury.
Master Siege Engineer: Crew can load Siege as a Move Action
Class Abilities or "dips"
Ranger(Freeboter): lvl1 – Freebooter’s Bane as a move +1 attack/damage to allies within 30ft against a foe, +1 per 4 levels(replaces Favoured Enemy)
Lvl 4- Freeboter’s Bond – Move action to grant flanking allies a +2 bonus to attack with freebooter or affected allies within 30 ft
Alchemist: Swift Alchemy Lvl 3 – Apply poison as a move action (as swift at 6)
Alchemist (Grenadier): Lvl 1 – Attach an alchemical weapon as a move to your shot
Barbarian (Drunken Brute): Lvl 1 – Drink as a move action (replaces Fast Movement)
Rogue (Scout): Lvl 8 - When you Move 10 ft in a round and attack opponent is dealt Sneak Attack as flat footed
Bard: Lvl 7 - Start Bardic Performance as Move Action instead of a Standard Action
Spells
-
Traits Accelerated Drinker: Drink as a Move Action as long as Potion is already in your hand
-------------------
STANDARD ACTIONS or "what's the point of this"
There are many great things that use Standard Actions in Pathfinder. It opens a different play style all together. It also decreases player's turn time with just one role or simple action.
Adding to the recopilation, what to have in mind:
Feats are always good, as full attacking becomes more prominent using Standard actions fades away when possible, so even if the feats have a high prerequisite they are worth mentioning. E.g. Vital Strike chain.
Class abilities preferably must come early, for dips, however it would be good to have a list of all "as a move action" abilities that classes get for possible combinations.
To give an idea of how playstyle may change:
Thrills the Standard Action Switch Hitter:
I decided to build a Switch Hitter specialised in killing with one crossbow bolt, that could grab his meele weapon and still do well.
For this I turned to Heavy Crossbows(large), Vital Strike, Alchemist, Barbarian and Consumables.
Accelerated Drinker Trait.
This guy walks with iron vials in his hand ready to drink. Gravity Bow/Lead Blades/etc. Helps that the Gm allows the D&D masterwork Potion Belt.
1-4 levels in Alchemist.
This gives Bombs (2d6+Int). 2nd level extracts for Alchemical Allocation. Conductive Weapon allows you to use Bombs with a shot for 2 charges. Alchemical Allocation allows him to drink potions of Greater Invis/Named Bullet/Whatever up to level 3 without spending them.
1-2 levels in Barbarian.
This gives Furious Finish to maximise damage from Vital Strike ending your rage. You need a BAB of 6 though.
Kirin Strike. Using this Style Feat he'll add even more Intelligence damage to that single shot/hit. (Kirin+Targeted Admixture+Bombs = 4x Int damage)
Vital Strike feat chain and Impact Weapon/Gravity Bow/Lead Blades. See the Vital Strike threads out there.
He's a bit more complex with extra multiclassing but this is the bare version:
Building a thrower with a specific concept in mind. Starting at level 8, he's mostly a backup character.
This guy is pretty much throws anything he finds, and carries heaps of weapons, throwing axes mainly.
The aim is building a thrower that can be flexible at range and decent at meele.
The GM has graced us with 1 feat per level, but also peppers us with pretty tough stuff. Magnificent boon, so better use it. Since throwers are regarded as lackluster and feat intensive, this had to be the perfect chance. Even without the extra feats it could still work.
I have researched the forums and taken advice from the thrower threads, as well as read all those "entertaining" monk threads, so while I'm sort of new to the pathfinder system I'm aware of the state of monks.
Number crunch - no items included
--------------------------------
Figther 2
Monk of Empty Hand X
Treats normal weapons as improvised, can change damage type and do unarmed damage with ki/swift actions.
Can increment the range of thrown weapons by 20 for 1 round with ki.
Cant remember other stats, but there were decent enough 11ish.., 13, 16, 14
WIth Thrown Weapons:
Number of Attacks
FOB: 3, Ki: 1, Rshot: 1
= 5
To Hit/Flurry of blows lvl 8
Bab Fighter: 2, BAB Monk: 6, Str: 5, PBlank: 1, RShot: -2, Deadly Aim: -2
= 10, 10, 5, 10, 10
Damage/Flurry of Blows lvl 8
Str: 5, PBlank:1, DA:4
= +10x5 + hammer the gap (+0,+1,+2,+3,+4=10 for 5 hits)
With Ki for unarmed damage, potential of 5d8 +50 + 10 (HammerGap)
-------------------------------------
I'm interested in your opinions about how well this works as a thrower, what key feats have I missed, what Fighter archetype might suit the build or just general shortcomings.
Material available is all Paizo main books. Stuff from Paizo publishing is usable if the GM agrees specifically.
Exploring archetypes I came up with 2 possibilities. Either a Monk 2 zen archer/ Fighter X or a Fighter 2/Monk X, trying to maximise the feats. The first option had zen archer to benefit from the extra feat selection.
I think most elegant the latter, allowing for a few tricks that the monks can do. I preffer my characters to have some fun dynamics or tactical options. FoB eliminates the need for TWF and more feats.
EDIT: I am aware that archers will excel this guy and so will melee combatants. He's mostly for fun and something different, being able to be maleable to the situation :)
