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phantom1592 wrote:
People playing paladins should not demand there be an evil guy in every encounter... any more then a Ranger player should not demand there is Favored Enemy:Fey or Monstrous Humanoid in every encounter.

Every encounter, no. Most of them, IMHO, yes.


phantom1592 wrote:

Paladins should be out there helping innocent people REGARDLESS of the alignment of their opponet.

The great bandit king COULD be Neutral.... doesn't matter. If he's still hurting people, he needs to be stopped.

Heck... my current paladin has only 'detected Evil' 2 or 3 times so far... ususally peoples ACTIONS dictate his responses ;)

If you have fun, it's good.

But I would say that a lot of people choose the Paladin class so they could make use of the nice abilities the class provides, and if they can't do that they could find the game unfun.


As a regular Paladin's player, I would be a little upset if most of the enemies my character fights couldn't be smote at all. Every once in a while, could be fun and characteristic; more often, no.

It's like filling your adventures with enemies immune to Sneak Attack, or with nigh-impenetrable SR, and so on. Sometimes is fun, every time is not.

The Paladin class is a tough one, but could be easily challenged even with her full powers.

- Smite Evil is single target only; it's great, but against group of evil enemies its usefulness drops considerably.

- High saves, sure. But the Reflex save isn't great even for a Paladin, so using effects that target the Reflex save could put pressure on the Paladin.

- Easy & fast access to healing doesn't mean she could do that all day long.

- Lacks of mobility is one of the Paladin's weaknesses.

- Lacks of subtlety is another one.

- In combat the Paladin could do most of the times just one thing: attack. In this regard is no more different than a Fighter or Barbarian. If the Paladin has trouble full-attacking, her usefulness drops considerably.

Finally, if a DM starts throwing at my Paladin neutral or good enemies every time (or try to render useless all my character's abilities), well...I would just change character. Or DM.


phantom1592 wrote:

But that's not really a 'unique' resource...

EVERY class has to worry about hit points. By that logic casters now have to worry about TWO limited resources, Spells AND Hit points....

True. But at the same time casters have abilities that let them avoid loss of hit points, or means to heal them - all of them easily accessible.

But that's beside the point: the points is, every class has to stop when its limited resource is low. So saying that an all-casters party couldn't go on unless it's a 15 minutes workday is false, because then EVERY class shouldn't be able to go on if not in an ideal 15 minutes workday.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
A party of nothing but casters will eventually fall into a situation without their abilities. Unless the GM is nice enough to allow their players to have a 15 minute workday.

I played in an all-casters' party, no 15 minutes workday, we had no problem 'til 10th level, when the campaign ended (Wizard, Sorcerer, Witch, Cleric).

Simply put, every class in PF have to manage some kind of resource: Fighters, for example, have hit points. When the hit points are low to none, the Fighter has to stop adventuring, the same is true for casters and spell slots.

So, to use your argument, a Fighter could fall into a situation without her resource - hit points. So if the casters could not face every situation with their abilities, the same should be true for Fighters, Rogues, Rangers and so on.

No class in PF could go on forever. Every class has some kind of resource that isn't so easily renewable without time or external support.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
If they have someone capable of casting cure they can but that is besides the point.

Yes, you're right.

Anyway a wand of CLW is cheap, I wouldn't pick Craft Wand just for the healing.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Craft Wand for a Wizard isn't bad... Especially if you also take Craft Staff and the Staff-Like Wands Arcane Discovery. Or a Magus with the Wand Master Arcana.

Yes, but we're talking of wands of CLW, and a Wizard (or Magus) couldn't create one of those.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:
CLW can be cheaper can't it...

You could take Craft Wand, but it's a horrible feat. Maybe there are other methods, I have no idea.


First thing to consider, a wand of CWL is only 700 gold. Remember, this kind of stuff is useful for the whole party, not just one PC so all the party (or at least all characters interested in using this kind of stuff) should contribute to buying it. Even if your behind your WBL, unless you're really low level you shouldn't have so much problem to pool your money and buy one.

Second thing, if you feel you're treated unfairly at the gaming table or you don't have fun playing with another player you have two options:

- Talk
- Leave

This is up to you: if you feel the DM and the problematic player could understand and compromise so everyone could have fun, try to talk. If you feel it would just lead to some unpleasurable conversation, just leave, remember to thank everyone for the good time (even if you didn't have it) and shake hands saying simply "I prefer a different playstyle", without accusing anyone.